First Build - Comments Please!

[ReKK]

Hi All -

 

I am working towards my first unraid server. I plan on buying the pro license and have the server expandable to the max 20 hard drives that it can hold eventually.

 

3 99.99 299.97 SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1B Black 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA HDD Enclosure

1 59.99 59.99 COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP Black SECC / ABS ATX Mid 

1 119 119.00 License Pro

4 29.99 119.96 SYBA SD-SATA-4P PCI SATA Controller Card (4 SATA each)

1 89.99 89.99 CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI

 

688.91

 

The reason I planned on purchasing 4 PCI SATA cards is because my old motherboard only has 2 SATA connections. I had planned on using an old computer that was using a AMD Athlon 2400+ processor, 2 sticks of 512MB RAM and an old motherboard (Abit AN7) - ATI radeon 9800pro 128MB video card. Somehow I thought by salvaging parts from older PCs would have saved me money.....but it seems like it really hasn't.

 

Confused!!!! Any suggestions?

 

[shawn]

Which USB drive will you be using?

 

[ReKK]

Not sure - I haven't looked into that, but don't believe it to be that critical.

[BRiT]

Don't do it and here's why:

 

You will be extremely performance limited. The performance impact comes into play during parity builds, parity checks, failed drive situation, drive rebuilds, simultaneous writes, and simultaneous reads.

 

The PCI Bus has 133 MB/sec maximum combined bandwidth for ALL devices on it. To determine the upper bounds, you take the total available bandwidth for the bus and divide it by the number of active devices. In your case, you'd have 16 drives (4 4port SATA controller) on a single 133 MB/sec bus. This provides a limit of 8 MB/sec [133 / 16] in these situations.

 

You want to use the PCI Express bus, ideally a 4x PCI-Express port with SuperMicro AOC card(s). The PCI Express bus does not share bandwidth across ports, and a 4x port provides for 1000 MB/sec.

 

With the larger 2TB drives, your parity checks would be obscene. The fastest possible parity check would take 2.89 days. Any parity build would take over 3 days. If you ever had a drive failure, rebuilding the single drive would take well over 3 days.

 

The Math: 2,000,000 MB / 8 MB/sec = 250,000 seconds = 4166.66 minutes = 69.44 hours = 2.89 days.

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7520.msg72845#msg72845 and http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7520.msg72912#msg72912

 

[Rajahal]

Definitely don't put 20 drives all on the PCI bus, for the reasons that BRiT explained.

 

Also, it is a waste of money to try to build a 20 drive server case out of 5-in-3's.  Consider instead something like the Norco 4220.

 

Also, you may want to consult this for ideas and links to parts:

 

Recommended Build - 20 Drive Beast

[ReKK]

Is there anything I can salvage out of the parts I took out of my old computer towards the build of an unRAID?

 

I have seen your recommended build for the 20 Drive Beast, but am wondering if there was anyway that I could build a 20 Drive build out of a tower? I am not sure if I will need 20 drives, but wanted the flexibility of being able to if I wanted to, preferably in a tower, so that I didn't have to deal with something as bulky as the Norco 4220. Doesn't the Cooler Master Centurion 590 allow you the flexibility of expanding to 20 drives?

 

I was trying to mimic the rigs sold on the site with a few modifications.

[graywolf]

Is there anything I can salvage out of the parts I took out of my old computer towards the build of an unRAID?

 

Doesn't the Cooler Master Centurion 590 allow you the flexibility of expanding to 20 drives?

 

RAM, and most likely CPU.

 

The 590 has 9 slots, which would be 3x 5in3s for 15 drives. Would need to figure out where to put another 5 drives. External e-sata enclosures maybe?

At 15 drives, thats 1 parity and 14 x 2TB for 28TB storage.  How long do you think it would be for you to exceed that capacity?

Long enough to make it worthwhile for the present then expand later or build a 2nd unRAID server?

 

Most likely should go with new (or other) MB with PCI-e slots for the reasons already given.

 

[ReKK]

Hey - so I decided to go back to the drawing board. Can you guys take a look at this new build and give me your opinions? Do you guys have any suggestions for PCI expansion cards?

 

Case: Cooler Master 590 $59.99

Motherboard: BIOSTAR TA785 A2+ AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G ATX AMD Motherboard: $66.99

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ (Re-using old processor)

Power: CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX 550W $84.99

Hot Swap: (2) Supermicro CSE-M35T 5x3.5 $199.98

USB Flash Drive: San Disk Cruzer 4GB $10.99

RAM: 2GB 667GHZ DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300) (Re-using old RAM)

PCI Expansion Card: MASSCOOL PCI Card, 4 internal SATA Model XWT-RC040 $21.99

 

Cost + Shipping: $491.61

 

I was thinking of buying more hot swaps and another PCI expansion card when I need it.

 

Let me know please!

 

Thanks!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[poofyhairguy]

I like mostly everything, and I have same USB drive. Two things I do see though.

 

1. Too much on the PCI bus. You should only have two drives on a PCI bus max. If you want to max out the build, you need one of these cards:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-Add-Card-AOC-SASLP-MV8-controller/dp/B002KGLDXU

 

That gets you to 14 with the 6 onboard. You want higher (or cheaper to start out with)?

 

Get two of these:

 

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch_v3.asp?px=FX&scriteria=AA74422

 

Each is as fast as the mobo sata ports. That adds four more drives, we are up to 18. Then get one of these:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816132001&cm_re=pci_sata-_-16-132-001-_-Product

 

For the two sata ports a PCI bus can do. That gets you to 20.

 

2. That case won't hold 20 drives. If you want 20 drives, you either need to get my favorite case, the Antec 1200:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043&cm_re=antec_twelve_hundred-_-11-129-043-_-Product

 

Or keep that Cooler master case and instead of getting the two Syba cards, get one of these:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816132015

 

That uses one PCIe 1x slot.

[ReKK]

Thanks Poofy! I was under the impression that the 590 could hold 3 3x5 in its 9 slots giving me 15 + the 4 internal drives, which is 19? Is this wrong?

[prostuff1]

I was under the impression that the 590 could hold 3 3x5 in its 9 slots giving me 15 + the 4 internal drives, which is 19? Is this wrong?

 

Yes, the cage that holds 4 drives is in the bottom of the 590 and has to be removed to fit 3 of the 5-in-3 cages.

[ReKK]

Cool. Thanks for the help. I'm guessing that if I plan to expand to that many HDs in the future, I should probably buy a 750W power supply?

 

Does the case need any additional fans?

[Kode]

Amps on the rail is more important than wattage, from what i have read assume 2a for green drives 3a for normal drives, so for example 20 normal drives would be 60a, if a PSU is split over multiple rails you probably wont be able to utilise all the rails so its generally recommended to get a single rail PSU

[prostuff1]

Cool. Thanks for the help. I'm guessing that if I plan to expand to that many HDs in the future, I should probably buy a 750W power supply?

You should be just fine with that supply for 20 drives.  It has 52A on the 12v rail.

 

Does the case need any additional fans?

Only you will be able to figure that out.  Get air moving over the drives for sure, and one 120mm fan for the back of the case should work just fine.

[matchesmalone]

I like mostly everything, and I have same USB drive.

 

I actually just bought the same drive myself, and couldn't get it to boot. I followed these instructions with no luck. I repeated the exact same steps with an old 2 GB Sandisk Titanium I had lying around, and it worked fine.

 

Did you have to do anything special? The drive didn't have U3 installed, so that's not it. I might try it again by formatting it FAT instead of FAT32 and see what that does.

[mangledjustice]

I have that same usb drive I was working on win 7 pc with it, no go, I then use a winxp  pc i ripped out the u3 software, now its working perfect

BTW  i use FAT

[ReKK]

Quick Question about the SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS SAS RAID Controller.

 

It says there are 8x external eSATA ports. How would the wiring work for this if all my drives are internal?

 

I think I am just going to try to max this case out with 15 and if I need to expand to something bigger in the future, I will. Any suggestions on how to just get it to 15?

 

Thanks!

[wsume99]

Just FYI - you might consider that MB in a combo deal with the Sempron 140 for $85 plus $10 MIR.  You'd be getting a brand new processor for only $8 more.  I don't think that two cores would benefit you that much but the Sempron would be more efficient (45W TDP vs. 65W).  Heck you might even get lucky an be able to unlock the extra core on the Sempron, but I don't know if that board supports ACC.

[Rajahal]

Quick Question about the SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS SAS RAID Controller.

 

It says there are 8x external eSATA ports. How would the wiring work for this if all my drives are internal?

 

I think I am just going to try to max this case out with 15 and if I need to expand to something bigger in the future, I will. Any suggestions on how to just get it to 15?

 

Thanks!

 

Your information is incorrect.  The AOC-SASLP-MV8 has two miniSAS ports, each of which can support 4 SATA drives (so a total of 8 internal drives).  You need special cables for this called SAS-SATA breakout cables.  As far as I know, there are no SAS-eSATA breakout cables.