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Tybio

Thinking about the E-2186G....

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I'd been rather settled on a 2700x with one of the new boards for a while, but as I'm unlikely to do VM gaming and more likely to do Plex transcoding of UHD in the near future...Intel just gut-punched me with the XEON E-2186G:  https://ark.intel.com/products/134855/Intel-Xeon-E-2186G-Processor-12M-Cache-up-to-4_70-GHz

 

I found a nice server board for that chip:  https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/X11/X11SCA-F.cfm

 

And now I'm wanting a sanity check to make sure I've got the trade off right.  With the XEON I get less power and slightly higher cost, but end up with a server class board/proc that support ECC AND have the iGPU that can do a few 4k UHD transcodes.

 

What does the group think?  Is this as flip-of-the-coin as I'm thinking, or is there a consideration I haven't taken into account?

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2 minutes ago, Tybio said:

I'd been rather settled on a 2700x with one of the new boards for a while, but as I'm unlikely to do VM gaming and more likely to do Plex transcoding of UHD in the near future...Intel just gut-punched me with the XEON E-2186G:  https://ark.intel.com/products/134855/Intel-Xeon-E-2186G-Processor-12M-Cache-up-to-4_70-GHz

 

I found a nice server board for that chip:  https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/X11/X11SCA-F.cfm

 

And now I'm wanting a sanity check to make sure I've got the trade off right.  With the XEON I get less power and slightly higher cost, but end up with a server class board/proc that support ECC AND have the iGPU that can do a few 4k UHD transcodes.

 

What does the group think?  Is this as flip-of-the-coin as I'm thinking, or is there a consideration I haven't taken into account?

You'd save some money by getting the E-2176G instead.  The difference in price for the E-2186G is hard to justify for an addittional .1 GHz base clock speed.

 

If Plex hardware transcoding is your primary concern, the Xeon is the better choice.  Yes, you have 6 core/12 threads with the Xeon vs. 8 cores/16 threads with the Ryzen, but, if you don't envision a need for extra cores for VMs/gaming, I believe you will be happier with the Xeon and iGPU with Quick Sync Video support for 4K UHD transcoding.

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Thanks, I didn't notice how small the stepping was in this family... if going for the iGPU over power then it makes sense to step down.

 

I'm a bit concerned that these processes aren't in stock anywhere and don't seem to be getting any buzz.  Perhaps I would be better served just getting an i7 and putting it in that MB (The page says it "should work").

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Posted (edited)
On 10/1/2018 at 10:18 AM, Tybio said:

Perhaps I would be better served just getting an i7 and putting it in that MB (The page says it "should work").

No ECC RAM support with the i7 if that is a concern.

 

I would favor the 2176G over the 2186G for the TDP as well; the 2176G is 80W and the 2186G is 95W

 

Not yet in stock, but, product pages/pricing are starting to appear for the E-21xx line.  These chips were slated to be released in Q3 so, it should be soon.

 

https://www.provantage.com/intel-cm8068403380018~7ITEP69N.htm

 

There was some buzz when they were announced in early July, but, beyond that, it is hard to talk about something you can't even test since it is not available.

 

 

Edited by Hoopster

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18 minutes ago, Tybio said:

NextWarehouse is showing the E chips in stock, I've never heard of them before but am considering pulling the trigger :)

 

Of course, I am sure you are already aware of this, but, the motherboard has to have the C246 chipset.  The "older" C236/socket 1151 motherboards that support the Skylake/Kaby Lake CPUs will not support the Coffee Lake CPUs even though the 1151 socket is (supposedly) pin compatible. 

 

Finding a C246 chpset motherboard that is released in the wild may be an issue as well.

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Nope, the Supermicro I linked in the first post is a C246...with IPMI and most/all of the features you get in an i7 board...8 SATA, 2 M.2, even a U.2 that I'll never ever use.

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1 minute ago, Tybio said:

Nope, the Supermicro I linked in the first post is a C246...with IPMI and most/all of the features you get in an i7 board...8 SATA, 2 M.2, even a U.2 that I'll never ever use.

Right, I forgot you had already mentioned you found a motherboard.

 

BTW: On the site you linked for the CPU, if you check stock, it says the CPU is direct shipped from the manufacturer and shipping is estimated in 2-3 weeks.

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Just now, Hoopster said:

Right, I forgot you had already mentioned you found a motherboard.

 

BTW: On the site you linked for the CPU, if you check stock, it says the CPU is direct shipped from the manufacturer and shipping is estimated in 2-3 weeks.

Erg, good catch.  I think I'll order the MB/RAM and then figure out the cooling solution once I see the board and hold it up to the case.  Then I'll wait for Newegg or Amazon to get the chip in stock (Or someone else I know and mostly trust!).

 

Thanks for the advice on this, going to be great to have the power of an i7 with ECC and IPMI.

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5 minutes ago, Tybio said:

Then I'll wait for Newegg or Amazon to get the chip in stock (Or someone else I know and mostly trust!).

That Provantage price of $334.19 looks pretty good for the E-2176G.  I hope Amazon, Newegg, Superbiiz, etc. have them similarly priced on general release.

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So I've been digging into this more, and I'm not as convinced this is the right path.  From the Supermicro page for the MB:

 

M.2 Interface: 2 PCI-E 3.0 x4, RAID 0 & 1
M.2 Form Factor: 2242/2260/2280/22110
M.2 Key: M-Key
M.2#1~2 are shared with PCI-Ex4 slot, M.2#2 is shared with U.2
U.2 Interface: 1 PCI-E 3.0 x4

 

This confuses me.  If I use M2#1 OR #2 then the x4 slot is disabled, if I use #2 then both the U.2 and x4 slots are disabled.  So basically I can use M.2 OR PCI-Ex4.  That means that I'd only be able to run in 16x or 8x+8x mode?  So one slot for the HBA and one for the 10Gb card and it is full.

 

More and more I'm thinking of just going AMD to remove the PCI limitations and then shifting plex trans-coding off the server if it becomes a problem.

 

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Thinking the best compromise will be this:  https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z390 Taichi Ultimate/index.asp#Specification

 

The trade-off right now is the iGPU for ECC+Expansion.  Can have one, or the other.  This Asrock board seems to be the only compromise option but fully loaded it will only have 1xM.2  That works for me I think....but it also isn't a server class setup.

 

ERG, why do you have to have either-or?!  I should likely just go TR and suck up the plex thing.

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4 hours ago, Tybio said:

The trade-off right now is the iGPU for ECC+Expansion.  Can have one, or the other.  This Asrock board seems to be the only compromise option but fully loaded it will only have 1xM.2  That works for me I think....but it also isn't a server class setup.

What about the Asus WS C246 Pro?

 

https://www.asus.com/us/Commercial-Servers-Workstations/WS-C246-PRO/

 

It takes the Xeon E-2176G, supports ECC RAM and has a lot of expansion options.  I am not sure how the M.2 slots work in in conjunction with PCIE slots, etc. But I am sure you could research that.

 

The only thing missing that I would like is IPMI, but. my current main server does not have that either.

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I can't find any docs on the Asus board.  I think I'm just going to go with the SM and forego the 10GB port for the moment.  I can bond the two 1G (as my current server is) and that is likely enough for the moment.

 

I'm not sure if I should order parts at the moment or wait for the processor...kind of silly to order MB/RAM/Cooler without known when the processor is going to be in stock.

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8 minutes ago, Tybio said:

I can't find any docs on the Asus board.

I just downloaded it:

 

https://www.asus.com/us/Commercial-Servers-Workstations/WS-C246-PRO/HelpDesk_Manual/

 

If I read it correctly, one of the M.2 slots is shared with a SATA port (so 7 SATA, + one M.2 plus other M.2 seems to be the max storage).  If the PCIe x4 slot is used it is shared with SATA port(s) as well.

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Thanks!  Ok, so it looks like the same as the SM board really.  Hurm, lose IPMI to gain a black PCB .  That's almost freaking worth it!

 

Update:

 

Ok, perhaps it is better than the SM.  If I'm reading this right it will operate in 8x/4x/4x/-- (the last one is disabled to get the SATA ports) AND allow one M.2 to be used.  I think the trade-off here is the loss of the U.2 port, which I have no intention of ever using...so perhaps the Asus board is a better option.

 

The SM can only do 8x/8x  with the last slot disabled.  While that would work as well, I just don't like upgrading and having all expansion used day-1.  Perhaps that's the bind at being close to the end of this Intel cycle, just not many options until they get to 10nm next year (or in 2025 given how well they've done so far).

 

Edited by Tybio

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1 hour ago, Tybio said:

Ok, perhaps it is better than the SM.  If I'm reading this right it will operate in 8x/4x/4x/-- (the last one is disabled to get the SATA ports) AND allow one M.2 to be used. 

 

That's the way I read it as well.

 

Here is another option, the ASRock Rack C236M WS:

 

http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C246M WS#Specifications

 

It is a micro ATX board, not full ATX.  If a PCIe NVME SSD is used in the M.2, you still get 8 SATA ports, but, you lose the PCIe x4 slot leaving you with one x16 or two x8.

 

I think that between that and the Supermicro, I would probably go with the Supermicro for IPMI unless I needed the smaller board for a smaller case.  Asus also has a micro ATX version of the WS C246 Pro (the WS C246M Pro).

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I'm just going with the Supermicro and doing LAG rather than a 10Gb card.  I've got the parts in a newegg cart, but I'm not sure if I want to buy until the CPU is available.  Then again, when the CPU comes out the board might be hard to find as it is a niche product.

 

Have you seen any hint as to the ship date?

 

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6 minutes ago, Tybio said:

Have you seen any hint as to the ship date?

No info on anticipated availability that I can find. 

 

You can order the E-2176G  from Provantage (shows out of stock) and at least lock in the $334 price [$340 with shipping])  That's by far the lowest price I have seen of the  three or four sites that have a product page and price for the CPU even though it is not yet in stock. The others are all around $400.

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So I read the SM manual last night, and according to the block diagram on page 21 It isn't "both" M.2's that take out the 4x slot, just M.2-2.  M2-1 disables the U.2 port.  I suppose that's why SM put "M.2:1~2"  Not sure what the tilde means in their minds.  Anyway, if I'm reading this right, I can use 1 M.2 and have the 4x slot for a 10G ethernet card in the future.

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Ordered the SM board from Newegg, must have only had one in stock as it now shows as out of stock.  I think I might have just taken a detour on a branch of the intel family that isn't going to really be that widely used :).

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1 minute ago, Tybio said:

I think I might have just taken a detour on a branch of the intel family that isn't going to really be that widely used :).

RAMBUS anyone?

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3 minutes ago, jonathanm said:

RAMBUS anyone?

OUCH!  How could you put that thought in my head?!  Shesh, perhaps I should return this thing....RAMBUS....egads.

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Some stores in the EU are listing 11/1 as the date they will have stock on these processors.  So another few weeks and perhaps I can do the upgrade!

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Also waiting for 2176G's to come into stock so I can upgrade my Plex server......  haven't bought a motherboard yet but it will likely be the same one you bought.......  On a side note I still have a HP Workstation with Dual Xeon 2800's and RDRAM (RAMBUS) memory in the attic :)

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