Jump to content
comet424

how do you reactivate a Faulty Drive from UDMA CRC error count

182 posts in this topic Last Reply

Recommended Posts

28 minutes ago, comet424 said:

ok i kinda understand... and if hard drives can only do 256meg/s  then isnt a 6GB/s be good 

as the 12TB drive is Sata3  but it only does like 256 meg/s   nothing like the SSD at 500  so wouldnt that be good?    and why does the first 25% go 1gigabyte per second

here is couple links

https://www.backblaze.com/b2/storage-pod.html

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/open-source-data-storage-server/

 

i like the case but at over 1000 canadian  it isnt worth for it me for home use  but love how its compact etc

 

 

I suppose it depends on how well the SATA expander utilizes the 3Gb/s of bandwidth. I've still heard that SATA expanders can be problematic. Ideally you would want a 6Gb/s expander. That one you linked is only 3Gb.

 

Backblaze is "cloud" storage. Not something you would have at your house.

Share this post


Link to post

You also have to remember that Unraid shows bytes per second. So that 12TB drive would top out at 2Gb/s, gigabits, (256*8/1024). 5 drives pushing 2Gb/s would be more than that 3Gb/s multiplier could handle.

Share this post


Link to post

ah ok  so you could only handle 3 drives per 6g/b sata connection  at 2gb/s drive 

i get confused at times  as you get mixed up when you thinkg 6gb/s  its 6000meg's/s  

 

drives me crazy for internet speeds ones in Megabites other is in K  lol

 

but i hear ya

Share this post


Link to post

It’s always better to have the physical ports for your drives without expanders or multipliers. That’s why the LSI SAS cards are so great. Try and find an 8 port 6Gb SATA card for that cheap.

Share this post


Link to post

ah ok  ya i hear ya..  ya 3 of those cars you get 24 drives  not like i need that many or 60 drives and unraid doesnt even support 60 drives  but thats ok its easier to use then freenas and Plex Server updates on unraid  reason i switched to Unraid from Freenas 2 reasons..  Plex updated when you added new files... and even though i deleted files on the Freenas  it wasnt giving back my diskspace.. it took up more disk space to delete files..  although i did like the Rsync Gui setup  not so much for the rysnc command line unraid has.. so everyone has there pros and cons lol

 

Share this post


Link to post

I have used SAS Expanders they cut parity check speed by about 25%.  Even with that it was averaging 65-136MB/s depending on the drives so not too bad.  But my preference is to not use them unless I have to.  I have a couple of Chenbro NR40700 cases that support 48 drive bays but use 2 built in SAS expanders.  For normal read and write operations I get full speed and parity checks are only once a month so I can live with the slower parity check speeds for the increased drive density.  My other 24 bay server uses LSI-9201-16i cards to reduce the PCIe slot usage to save them for tuner cards to record OTA and ClearQAM TV.

Share this post


Link to post

ah ok  and with your 48 drive what software you use with that... and do you like the chenbro cases i find online everyone hates or likes chenbro rosewell istars  nothing perfect even they hate the supermicro drive cages 4 5 bay one

 

and the 9201-16  i looked it up has 4 ports so that means i can have 24 sata drives correct using that sas cable to 4 sata  like the lsi2008  it has 2 sas and can handle 8 sata drives..

 

so i guess ill stick with non expansion cards... and how you use it without the expansion cards?  as example the 45drives they sit down on the expansion cards though  they plug and play on them dont they

Share this post


Link to post

Never had a 9201 fail yet so don't know but I don't expect any for years to come.  The 9201-16i's have 4 SAS ports which allow connecting 16 SATA drives or in my case 4 SAS to SAS backplane cables.  The second 9201-16i uses 2 of the four connectors to the 2 remaining backplane connectors to give me the 24 the case supports.  The other 8 can be used (4 internal and 4 external) with case mods to bring the count to 32 drives total.

 

With the Chenbro cases I am running an unRAID VM on an unRAID host.  Each instance of unRAID has a LSI-9211 cross flashed HP H310 or IBM M1015 connected to a SAS expander which controls 24 drive bays on the backplane of the case.

 

So I have 4 unRAID servers in 2 cases.  2 host unRAID servers running VMs with one of the VMs being another unRAID server.

Edited by BobPhoenix

Share this post


Link to post

oh so how come each sas port cant handle 4 satas... that other card the lsi2008i   it has 2 sas and handles 8 sata..  i guess different setup

 

i seen the chenbro you mention  those are like the 45 drives top loaders..  can you skip using the mulitplers for that..  i looking at the roswell 12bay front hot swaps.. to start as its cheaper then 24 bays  they like 800+

 

and using the VM unraid  is that to bypass the limit of the 24 drives it can handle.... whats the benefits of running unraid in a vm unraid

 

i wanting to load  Xpenlogy as a VM  but what i read so far didtn help me figure how to do that  and i really like  Unraid over Freenas because i i can add hds or any size at any time freenas not so much

 

Share this post


Link to post
36 minutes ago, comet424 said:

oh so how come each sas port cant handle 4 satas... that other card the lsi2008i   it has 2 sas and handles 8 sata..  i guess different setup

It can.  The 9201-16i has 4ports and handles 16 drives.  The second one handles and additional 16 drives.  But my Norco 4224 only handles 24 drives without mods.

39 minutes ago, comet424 said:

i seen the chenbro you mention  those are like the 45 drives top loaders..  can you skip using the mulitplers for that..  i looking at the roswell 12bay front hot swaps.. to start as its cheaper then 24 bays  they like 800+

The backplanes in the Chenbro have the SAS Expander built into them and you cannot bypass them.  So the only way to use the case is to use the SAS Expander.

40 minutes ago, comet424 said:

and using the VM unraid  is that to bypass the limit of the 24 drives it can handle.... whats the benefits of running unraid in a vm unraid

It lets me use all 48 bays in the case.  If I didn't have an unRAID VM running on the unRAID host I would only be able to use 30 ports for the array.  The rest (18) would have to be external drives to the array.  If unRAID allowed multiple arrays on one box I wouldn't have done the VM.  It has been asked for (multiple arrays) but I haven't seen that it has been implemented.  Also the maximum in the array is still 30 (the most I would want in a single array anyway) as far as I know.

 

42 minutes ago, comet424 said:

i wanting to load  Xpenlogy as a VM  but what i read so far didtn help me figure how to do that  and i really like  Unraid over Freenas because i i can add hds or any size at any time freenas not so much

The biggest thing I like about unRAID is that the individual drives are readable if removed from the array and if you have more drives fail than you have parity protection you don't loose the whole array of data.  And most of the time even if your array "throws" a drive you can still read the info on it.  It just isn't in sync with parity so you could retrieve MOST of the info off the drive before it completely fails.  I don't believe Freenas can do that or most other solutions I've seen.

Share this post


Link to post

oh im sorry dislexia i have i miss read i was multiplying wrong  i was thinking 4x4 was 24 not 16.. hate dislexia  i make mistakes all the time   have to re read everything multiple times

 

can you change the backplane of the chernbos  so they arent expanders but regular hot swaps  so then your run 16 cables instead of say 4

 

so with the unraid  you have 24(bay) for main unraid and then other 24 are for the VM Unraid... how well does that work...  and does that mean you need to 2 usbs..

ya i dunno why unraid limits 24or 28 drives or 30  i get confused when they talk about it...  and how the FAQ says unlimited drives  but then says your limited lol..  oxy moron there lol

 

ya i really like the unraid i can add a hard drive or pull bad 2tb  replace it with a 8 or 12 i been doing  even though costs alot i gotta do 0 interest financing to afford them  but least unraid can change the size... freenas cant really cuz of the raid stuff  and was a headeach doing those datasheets etc  frustrating  i like it simple like windows lol

 

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, comet424 said:

can you change the backplane of the chernbos  so they arent expanders but regular hot swaps  so then your run 16 cables instead of say 4

Not as far as I know.  When I bought my first case I didn't realize it used a backplane with a SAS Expander so was a little disappointed but I got used to it.  I had used a SAS Expander before I got the 9201-16i's to keep the PCIe slot usage down - so was used to them.  The SAS Expander on the backplanes appear to be more reliable and faster than the Intel RES2SV240's I was using before I got the Chenbro cases.  Most of the difference in speed was likely because I was only using a single connector from my IBM 1015's to the RES2SV240 rather than the DUAL link I can get to the Chenbro.

 

10 minutes ago, comet424 said:

so with the unraid  you have 24(bay) for main unraid and then other 24 are for the VM Unraid... how well does that work...  and does that mean you need to 2 usbs..

Yes.  I have 2 USB flash drives in each case.  On one box I can just pass through the 2nd USB flash to the VM directly.  The other box didn't work that way (different MB that didn't work the same) so I had to pass through a WHOLE USB controller to make it work.

 

10 minutes ago, comet424 said:

ya i dunno why unraid limits 24or 28 drives or 30  i get confused when they talk about it...  and how the FAQ says unlimited drives  but then says your limited lol..  oxy moron there lol

Actually I wouldn't mind if the limit per array was reduced to 24 drives as long as you could have multiple arrays in one box.

 

 

Edited by BobPhoenix

Share this post


Link to post
15 minutes ago, comet424 said:

oh im sorry dislexia i have i miss read i was multiplying wrong  i was thinking 4x4 was 24 not 16.. hate dislexia  i make mistakes all the time   have to re read everything multiple times

I have a little of that myself.  Why it takes me longer than some to post since I have to read and reread every post.  And then a third time after I post to fix what I missed before.

Share this post


Link to post

oh ok  ya my dislexia has gotten me into hot water on the pfsense forums because i miss read or miss explain or some just not that friendly and i dont mean to get people mad   i just explain it how im seeing it.. so it gets messed up

 

as for those expanders basiclly they just hot swap plates.. can you nto buy a hot swap plate that would fit in it  so  5 drive plate would have 5 connectors... or is the purpose of these mulitplier expanders to use little cables and maximise the 6gb/s bandwith to get 6000 megs as second....  

and if those backplanes fail doe you loose the contents on the hard drive like in a raid..

 

ya id like a couple arrays too i want one to do survellance camera  id like to get next year but all in one box.. i liked the xplenology but havent figured how to get it to work on vm unraid stuff..

 

is passing the usbs to the vms hard to do... id like to do what i saw on Linus Tech Tips  he had like 7 gaming machines on 1 cpu well 2 cpus  1 motherboard.. but i wouldnt mind  like 2 OS or 3 OS vm'd  so i can run my old  win95 games   or early 2000s   but id like to do different monitor keyboards  but all i see so far i can only see the VM when i click on the VM and log in on the console i dont know how they do the monitor and keyboards for there vms as all i can see is just on my main computer and i http://tower  to connect to my vms that way...  i still new to all this unraid  as i been a windows user and WHS for my older server...  and i looked into exsi stuff but couldnt get the damn thing to install right lol...

 

but i wouldnt mind even my main computer  run the unraid  then runs Windows 10 for my regular stuff and Windows 98SE  beside it so i have 2 screens on my table i dunno if i can do that really  or it all has to play through the webgui console button..

 

but i know im off track.. but ya i wouldnt mind 2 or more arrays  then you could get your 2 24drive arrays  i just really like you can do JBODs where as freenas  you cant  and its a pain  and u cant upgrade the drives to bigger sizes  and it recalcuates

 

too bad the different manfuactures worked together and make 1 kick ass software bring the best of each software together 

 

wishful thinking but hey its christmas 🙂

 

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/17/2018 at 1:22 PM, comet424 said:

as for those expanders basiclly they just hot swap plates.. can you nto buy a hot swap plate that would fit in it  so  5 drive plate would have 5 connectors... or is the purpose of these mulitplier expanders to use little cables and maximise the 6gb/s bandwith to get 6000 megs as second....

The Chenbro has 2 back planes each controls 24 drives each.  I doubt there is a NON SAS Expander version.  The cases and backplanes are past end of line.

 

On 12/17/2018 at 1:22 PM, comet424 said:

and if those backplanes fail doe you loose the contents on the hard drive like in a raid..

No they just multiply the number of drives able to connect to a single controller.  Since they are proprietary you may have trouble finding a replacement.  If they go bad a new case would be likely.  In my case I would just use my Norco 4224's that I swapped out. 

 

On 12/17/2018 at 1:22 PM, comet424 said:

is passing the usbs to the vms hard to do... id like to do what i saw on Linus Tech Tips  he had like 7 gaming machines on 1 cpu well 2 cpus  1 motherboard.. but i wouldnt mind  like 2 OS or 3 OS vm'd  so i can run my old  win95 games   or early 2000s   but id like to do different monitor keyboards  but all i see so far i can only see the VM when i click on the VM and log in on the console i dont know how they do the monitor and keyboards for there vms as all i can see is just on my main computer and i http://tower  to connect to my vms that way...  i still new to all this unraid  as i been a windows user and WHS for my older server...  and i looked into exsi stuff but couldnt get the damn thing to install right lol...

All of my VMs are headless as in no keyboard, video or mouse.  I just RDP into the Windows OSs and VNC in to the Linux ones.  It should be very easy to pass through USB devices to a VM.  I have an unRAID flash key just passed through on one box to the unRAID VM.  I just selected the USB flash drive in the GUI for the VM and it was available in the VM.  The other box I had to pass through the whole controller but that was because when unRAID booted off one flash drive it would find the other one and connect the wrong one as "flash/boot" device - so solved it by passing the whole controller to VM.  So not going to be much help with Video, Keyboard and Mouse pass through.  Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
I have used SAS Expanders they cut parity check speed by about 25%. 

Just a small observation that SAS expanders by themselves don't slowdown performance, they can since it's easier to reach a bandwidth bottleneck when using one, but as long as there's enough bandwidth they won't, I use 2 SAS expanders in my largest server and there's no slowdown, parity check speed is still limited by the slowest disks.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, johnnie.black said:

Just a small observation that SAS expanders by themselves don't slowdown performance, they can since it's easier to reach a bandwidth bottleneck when using one, but as long as there's enough bandwidth they won't, I use 2 SAS expanders in my largest server and there's no slowdown, parity check speed is still limited by the slowest disks.

 

 

True.  It does depend on if you have SINGLE verses DUAL link to the SAS expander.  Not sure what the bandwidth would be with a SINGLE link like I had when I took my measurement.  But with ~16 drives the parity check speed was reduced by about 25% verses the same ~16 drives connected to 2 M1015 controllers.

Share this post


Link to post
46 minutes ago, BobPhoenix said:

True.  It does depend on if you have SINGLE verses DUAL link to the SAS expander.  Not sure what the bandwidth would be with a SINGLE link like I had when I took my measurement.  But with ~16 drives the parity check speed was reduced by about 25% verses the same ~16 drives connected to 2 M1015 controllers.

I made various tests some time ago and posted the results here:

https://forums.unraid.net/topic/41340-satasas-controllers-tested-real-world-max-throughput-during-parity-check/

 

Share this post


Link to post

ah all good information

and you mention your case/backplane is at the end of life what replaces  it now a days..  i cant afford a big expensive case  i  just upgraded my sisters likee  Acer H340 4 bay server that was 12 yrs old or so with a new mobo memory cpu  used the same backplane    so its hot swapable  running unraid on it..  at have 8 gig of ram on it  abosed to the orgincal H340 mobo with 1gb ram.

but i like idea  of having all my hard drives in one   and i was looking at the Rosewell one. for 289 12 bay or its 15 bay hot swaps

or you get the roswell with not hot swaps  and u can slide in the SuperMicro  or StarTech nicro or so  3Bay drive spot it takes and gives yout 5 hard drives hot swaps

 

but i like the idea of this Sas  1 Cable  and splits off to 4  so you dont need lots of cables.. or if those backplanes are sas  then only 1 cable needed and it splits it off to 4 5 sata drives  then that saves alot of cabling needed too 

 

as i dont ever see computer stores ever getting SaS hard drives nore the price  is worth while 

 

 

and ya i dunno how they did the 7 computers  booting  different VMS off one computer

just saw  7 monitors 7 keyboars 7 mice all hooked up to one computer case  with 2 cpus and like 7 video cards hooked up to the computer 

Edited by comet424

Share this post


Link to post

oh  and the eol chenbro is 24 bay case?   well what i got from my friend he had extra from work its a Sliding Shelf  you bolt the 4 ends in  and then you just lay the server case on it  and when you wanna move the case out you pulling the shelf out

 

i can send a pic i tried to google it  but none of the images seem to be close what i got   but thats an idea for ya  or you could always drill holes in a case and install rails that you want

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, comet424 said:

oh  and the eol chenbro is 24 bay case?

No it is the NR40700 a 48 bay case.

 

6 hours ago, comet424 said:

i can send a pic i tried to google it  but none of the images seem to be close what i got   but thats an idea for ya  or you could always drill holes in a case and install rails that you want

Sounds interesting.  I've got a shelf for the 2nd Chenbro that I got that didn't have rails but you just pull the case out the shelf is not movable like the rails.  I like the rails I got for my other Chenbro it let you pull it out a long way and l doubt I could mod a rail to work as well.  I'm always looking to see if anyone is selling them on eBay.

Share this post


Link to post

ah ok  i have no idea on half  the stuff i learn lol

and ill try to take a pic of it i dont have it in the rack now  

 

and my disk 2 12tb failed again a read error

 

i had copied some files earlier and when i tried to go where i put it it wasnt there...  then i load up unraid gui  and i get array errors  

so the parity drive never got to save that file   but im sure the file is ok on the drive 

its that error i orginally got i guessing..  must be the port on the motherboard failing?  or its the hard drive i guess..  i gonna rma the drive tommorow cant hurt to exchange it but its only a few months old go figure..

 

but is there a way to remount that drive not have it reconstruct  but retreive the files off that drive  

and then i can re copy...  this is frustrating  

 

how often u setup parity  inbetween parity checks   u dont loose data

Edited by comet424

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, comet424 said:

i get array errors  

so the parity drive never got to save that file

Not following here. Are you saying the parity disk was disabled? If not then parity was updated even if the data disk was disabled. And if nothing was disabled then the file got saved and parity was updated. (Parity itself doesn't have any files)

 

8 minutes ago, comet424 said:

how often u setup parity  inbetween parity checks   u dont loose data

Unraid parity is realtime. Any time any write operation happens, parity is updated at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now