Shallow Depth 1U Rack Mount?


Mark A

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Hi All,

 

I'm wanting to switch out my current 4 bay 1U chassis, at home, with something that will fit in my small wall mount rack under the stairs. I have stumbled across the Synology RackStation RS816 which is perfect for my needs in all but one aspect - it means I would need to migrate away from Unraid - and I don't want to do that.

 

Has anyone stumbled across any 1U servers that are similar in depth to this Synology server? I don't need anything high powered, so my perfect spec would be:

 

  1. Less than 12" depth
  2. 4x3.5" drive bays.
  3. ARM based? Though wouldn't count out other processor options.
  4. 2xGigE (could probably get by with 1).

 

I know I am probably hoping for the impossible - but I figure that if Synology can do it (It seems netgear do a couple too), others have before them, and I am just not smart enough to find them. (Supermicro do some shallow depth servers but not with 4 drive bays). 

 

Mark

Edited by Mark A
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I do think you won't find an unRAID solution given your size requirements.

According to the Synology website, that RS816 uses a Marvell Armada 385 88F6820 CPU (dual core).  It also costs $495 on Amazon.

Synology has the RS818 with an Intel Atom C2538; but, that unit is much deeper than the RS816 and costs a lot more.

In the end, I doubt you will find a more cost-effective solution than the Synology given the size requirements.  For starters finding a 1U case with four 3.5" hot swap bays that doesn't cost a lot will be tough --- then factor in a depth of 12".  Most cases I see have a depth of 26".

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

hi @Mark A, did you find a solution to your ideal NAS?  I too was searching for this before, as I want something rackmount in looks, though I don't have a rack.  My purpose is to put it on the bookshelf, together with Cisco Switch, and Supermicro Firewall.  My restriction is also 12" depth max, as that is the depth of the bookshelf.  I am not limited to 4 bay, 8 bay or 12 bay may even be better, so as long as they are 12U in depth.  That gives me instant access to drives that may fail, and having a 2 or 3U NAS, with hotswap bays, stacked together with my 1U firewal, and Cisco Switch, would look pretty awesome :D  Alas, nothing is 12" in depth.

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12" is roughly 305mm, while an mini ITX motherboard is a 170x170mm format, a 3.5 drive is ~145mm long, clearly not fitting a standard board x86 in that.

Nano-ITX maybe? No, that pretty much disappeared nowadays.
 

I understand why you would go for ARM based.

 

Though, manufacturers like Zeal-All or Axiomtek do produce quite special boards with really small dimensions for not-that-old but still competent intel CPUs of the last 5-8 years.

IF you feel like going DIY with a dremel, drill, a cheapo short-depth case from aliexpress and some canibalized 5.25" to 3.5"hotswap cages, you could actually fit 4 bays in a 1U or 8 in a 2U, or, I think the easier route, go the other way around and "shorten" a case that has hotswap bays by welding / jbwelding / riveting its butt back on.

 

And that's a big "IF", depends if you feel like confident/adventurer enough for this kind of projects, but that's something I'ld actually consider if I had a short rack (might do it one day though, as to have storage on the front, and firewall/switchs at the back :D)

 

An example of possible miniboard to setup in such a DIY would be the CAPA13R by Axiomtek that is JUST 104mm x 146mm , features mainly 4 ports 1gbps ethernet, a ryzen embedded chip, a DDR4 soddim slot, and a pair of m.2 slots, keyed B and E.

Both of the m.2 slots would be candidates to put a m.2 to PCIe riser, in which to slot an HBA or maybe raidcard, SAS or SATA.

That, + a flex power supply, internal, or a Pico-ATX one with external powerbrick, with some lead-cutting and soldering not to just give 12V DC to the board, but also power the riser, as to not power the expansion card from the board through the riser, to not risk to overwhelm the little thing and for stability. These risers usually have a 4pin male onboard connector for supplementary power.

 

Great network connectivity for the format, possibility to have a SATA or SAS HBA or Raidcard, a Ryzen V1807B , which isn't a weak APU at all for its TDP, DDR4... pretty capable!

 

You could technically DIY build banging never-seen short-deph-ed x86 box with hotswap cages.

 

It would be a load of work, but an interesting project nonetheless. Just shooting ideas in case it sparks some interest in your nerdiness!

Edited by Keexrean
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Or you could run Unraid in some x86 NAS. l change QNAP TS-851 be Unraid no problem, just remove the internal USB disk.

You can change it back to QNAP OS.

 

TS-x73 should be good choice, have PCIe slot add on. ( But I can't confirm it success run Unraid or not and most should be Marvell base SATA controller which not recommend for Unraid )

Edited by Benson
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I edited my message to add some info concerning the board and stuff that has to be done, and its capabilities, above an E3 1240 v3.

 

Meanwhile:

28 minutes ago, Benson said:

Or you could run Unraid in some x86 NAS. l change QNAP TS-851 be Unraid no problem, just remove the internal USB disk.

You can change it back to QNAP OS.

 

TS-x73 should be good choice, have PCIe slot add on. ( But I can't confirm it success run Unraid or not )

 

1- Or you could read with more attention, they are looking for rackmount, the QNAP TS-851 could be the best example of a consumer-basic-turd box, and doesn't fit what they're looking for.
2- Looking up the TS-x73 series... the TS-873U its 534 mm in deph!! How does that fit in 12inches deep rack mounted to a wall?! Should they ask their neighbor if they don't mind a honking server-butt sticking through the wall into their livingroom?

 

I mean, size was the main challenge they're facing, you can't ignore it like that, or you discovered some pocket-dimension to fit that good half of the server into the void, and in that case, I'm deeply interested and want to buy some, name your price.

Edited by Keexrean
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7 minutes ago, Keexrean said:

1- I edited my message to add some info concerning the board and stuff that has to be done, and its capabilities, above an E3 1240 v3

2- Or you could read with more attention, they are looking for rackmount, the QNAP TS-851 could be the best example of a consumer-basic-turd box, and doesn't fit what they're looking for.
3- Looking up the TS-x73 series... the TS-873U its 534 mm in deph!! How does that fit in 12inches deep rack mounted to a wall?! Should they ask their neighbor if they don't mind a honking server-butt sticking through the wall into their livingroom?

 

I mean, size was the main challenge they're facing, you can't ignore it like that, or you discovered some pocket-dimension to fit that good half of the server into the void.

Clearly, I am not say rack form factor and I just focus on depth not must rack form factor.

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Buuuut... what do @Mark A and @jang430 were looking for? Focus on deph and "if possible rackmount" or...

 

On 12/26/2018 at 11:40 AM, Mark A said:

[...]Has anyone stumbled across any 1U servers that are similar in depth to this Synology server?[...]

 

13 hours ago, jang430 said:

[...] as I want something rackmount [...] My purpose is to put it on the bookshelf, together with Cisco Switch, and Supermicro Firewall.  My restriction is also 12" depth max  [...] stacked together with my 1U firewal, and Cisco Switch [...]

 

Sounds a lot like looking for 12" deep AND rackmount.

 

@Mark A apparently even ended up going for a 4bays rackmout netgear switch that is precisely 12inches deep.

 

It didn't sounded like an option to me. But you do you!

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Sorry for my wires above.  Haven't gone through routing the wires yet.  For the Supermicro server that acts as my firewall, I gutted out the Atom board that came with the chassis, and stuck a Supermicro X10SLM+-LN4F to the unit.  Front Panel leds work perfectly, and I have 4 ports for my firewall, and a management port.  I also selected a Core i3-4160T low TDP processor, I think about 30 TDP, and put in a low profile fan from Gelid Polar.  I use pico psu, and external Seasonic 12V adapter.  

 

@Keexrean, thank you for pointing out that to have everything in 12" depth is impossible, as the depth of mini-itx motherboard, plus HDD (3.5) without the backplane, would have exceeded 12" already, so this will never happen.  I've never thought about it that way.  I prefer it to be rackmount because everything is standard width, and can be arranged in a visually appealing way.  Specially if all black.  

 

The rackmount Qnaps, Netgears, that are Arm based, are probably a bit too low powered for me as of the moment.  But I'm hopeful that more powerful Arm based boards become more common.  then again, it may not be a board that small anymore.  I also believe Unraid won't support Arm.  So I prefer X86 based M/B for now.  

 

@Benson, thank you for sharing U-NAS chassis.  I have wanted that case for a long time, long before I wanted the rackmount form factor.  I liked the hotswap front bays, and U-NAS NSC-810a can fit a Micro-ATX form factor motherboard, my preferred form factor rather than just mini-itx.  To be honest, in the absence of rackmounts, this is the next best thing.  

 

To share with you, I am currently using a Fractal Design Node 804 case.  It's very easy on the eyes, all black box.  Though, I cannot put it below my rackmount devices, since it's more than 12 inches in depth.  When all is arranged in order, it looks so... eye-candy :D

 

I guess in the end, I will have to accept it won't happen.  Although there is a form factor we can always hope for, 24x 2.5 SAS/ SATA/ SSD drives rackmount with backplane DAS, 12" depth without motherboard, connected to my 1U Supermicro Unraid Server via HBA external port :D 

 

Till then, I'm off to dreamland to dream of my unicorn :D 

 

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@jang430 If you read more closely what I said, I mainly noted that because of size incompatibility, >STANDARD< for factors were to give up on, thus that ARM made a lot of sense (since it has been what Max A thought about going for, giving up on x86 and unraid.)

Fact is, Max A ended up going for a NAS-Router from netgear. Bit low powered one, but still, decent box for just storage and networking. And it's an x86 box, and fits  the requirements! Simply because the board inside is else nano-ITX or pico-ITX, or non-standard.

 

Later in my post, I also propose how you could basically DIY it, with a non-standard x86 board, and have something rackmount, x86, decently powered, 12inch deep, and x86.

 

But I could understand if you don't feel like even considering a DIY/heavy modding project like that. Still, don't give up on x86 in 12" deep rackmount, they are out there, just rare.

 

Found Max A's netgear solution on

Cdiscount, french e-commerce website

On Google shop

Alternate

Amazon (cheapest)

So yeah, there's that, but less powerful still than the DIY monster :D 

{A good mid-tier xeon common in gen 13 Dell servers refurb} VS (The AMD Ryzen of the DIY) VS [The Celeron of the Netgear NAS]

image.png.79db4f30268d0a9efa6d37e043e269a2.png

 

That Netgear NAS defo meets the size and storage requirement, but on unraid, forget about running Plex or VMs. At most some lightweight docker and some plugins, but not much more.

Edited by Keexrean
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Hi @Keexrean, I did read your post carefully, and read it more than once :D. Yes, prefer to use standard form factor, mini-itx at least, hence I said it's impossible, as you so pointed out.  With Mini-itx, we still get fairly powerful options, and can easily be replaced to upgrade.  But when we say rackmount form factor, it can indeed be Unraid on a 1U, then another hacked (12") 25 x 2.5"  DAS :D  Though I recently brought a Dremel, we haven't become best of friends yet, so will put that off for now.  I do hope we see more such form factors out there, for prosumer :D

Edited by jang430
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Well yeah, that would be the other option. I didn't knew standard form factor was part of your requirements, hence why I pushed the other solution :D 

 

a 1U mini ITX case, building a standard-form-factor system in with a PCIe SAS HBA/RaidCard for external SAS, then take basically any other rackmount case with front hotswap bay with a SAS backplane, and the right cables, eventually just double-sided-taping a pico-atx PSU in the hacked case for the backplane.
That does sound like a good plan.

 

Though if cutting is easy enough, you might get interested in a rivet tool and a brake to bend stuff nice and straight, as to "close" the back of the hacked case, for rigidity.
That + a drill, I'll tell you, once you started, being able to get metal sheets nicely secured together with a rivet gun can become ultra-satisfying!


Though I don't know what use you're gonna have of it, but 2.5" isn't really cost efficient mass storage, and more drive choices (some refurb 6TB 12Gbps SAS drives can be had for 110€ with shipping, they are nice, fast, and quite reliable!) . I'ld really go for one with 3.5" bays if you want a storage array!

 

If you're in to fill it with SSDs though, 2.5" that's the right call.

Edited by Keexrean
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2 hours ago, Keexrean said:

Though if cutting is easy enough, you might get interested in a rivet tool and a brake to bend stuff nice and straight, as to "close" the back of the hacked case, for rigidity.

Yup, I agree.  Don't know what a brake is, may start to research :D

 

Quote

Though I don't know what use you're gonna have of it, but 2.5" isn't really cost efficient mass storage, and more drive choices (some refurb 6TB 12Gbps SAS drives can be had for 110€ with shipping, they are nice, fast, and quite reliable!) . I'ld really go for one with 3.5" bays if you want a storage array!

 

The 2.5" drivers are smaller in form factor, and lighter on the bookshelf :D. But Yes, 3.5 would be the norm, and prices should come down quickly, specially for SAS drivers.  I recently got 20 pcs of 3 TB 3.5" drives HGST for 303 USD, shipped.

 

Will keep options open.

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Well, thinking of weight, can be debatable, better 4 to 8 of 2TB top 2.5"HDDs, or 1 8TB to 16TB 3.5" HDD. Be it in weight, power consumption, cabling or space!

Knowing that 2.5 HDDs above 2TB are not often as fast, often shingled, and quite pricer.

 

Hence why I thought unless you wanna go for full SSD, a 2.5" bays chassi would make less sense.

As for a brake:
image.png.d7fdb21d3350bf385bc841947f23f0d4.png
It's basically just a tool to bend sheet metal with straight and proper bends.

 

Picture that: you cut your storage server butt off, leaving like 2cm more on the sides than on the bottom.
You bend inward the sides at a 90° angle.

You cut the back panel of the server off at the corners on the sides, but on the bottom, keep also 2cm of the bottom panel.
Then, drill holes and rivet the side's bent-in strips to the back panel, and the back panel's bottom strip to the bottom pannel.

You just secured back the backside of your server to the cut section, bringing back some rigidity to the whole thing. No welding. Cut, bend, drill, rivet, done.

Edited by Keexrean
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