ksignorini Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) I'm considering upgrading my unRAID machine. I currently use an Intel i5 3570 (not the K version). I have 3 of the 4 cores dedicated to Windows 10 VMs for gaming. I've found that with my current game, if I don't assign 3 cores, I can't run the game at 3440x1440 high settings and have clear Discord comms (Discord cuts out when I only give the VM 2 cores and I can see both cores pinned from the game I'm playing). Option 1: I have an 8 core AMD FX 8350 and mobo available which uses the same DDR3 RAM (bonus). I could go to this mobo/CPUand maybe have more cores left over for unRAID (particularly PLEX). Say, give Windows 4 or 5 cores, and give unRAID the remaining. But would that help? I know that the 8350 cores are not as beefy as the 3570 cores I'm using...but there are more of them, for sure. Option 2 would be to upgrade to a more modern setup, maybe i7 9700K, DDR4, etc. but obviously, that comes with a price tag. Option 3 would be to upgrade to a Ryzen 7 2700X, mobo, and again, DDR4. What are your thoughts? Could the free option 1 suffice? That is, how do you think those 8 cores redistributed would stack up against my current 4 core Intel? If I upgrade, does having the extra threads of Ryzen make much difference vs the 9700K for Windows 10 VMs for gaming, and PLEX on the unRAID box? (I run some other dockers but they're almost insignificant.) I've done some reading here on the forums already, as well as online, but I can't seem to really get a handle on how the hyper threading would affect things. Overall, it looks like in single core and quad core ops, the 9700K kicks the Ryzen 7--it's in full 8/16 ops that the Ryzen really shines. But obviously none of the info I've read is in regards to my particular setup. Thanks! Edited December 30, 2018 by ksignorini Extra info. Quote Link to comment
thenonsense Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I've played with this in the past year and by my vote, you can survive on your current setup. It's up to you to determine what your acceptable level of performance is. However, I went blue->red specifically for the 8-core SMT support, and then on to Threadripper for 16-core SMT (we have 2 streamers). I think if you want to upgrade, definitely go the 2700x or the more affordable 1700/1700x/1800x. Blue isn't bad, but you get more parallel breathing room on Ryzen. Then, I'd give your VM 4 cores (due to the CCX architecture) and leave at least 1-2 of the others for dedicated virtualization. The other 2-3 go to your other tasks, which by your signature may be numerous, but may not need to be blisteringly fast. Tbh given all those jobs I'm impressed you're running so well on one core for UnRaid. I would personally upgrade. Quote Link to comment
ksignorini Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 59 minutes ago, thenonsense said: I've played with this in the past year and by my vote, you can survive on your current setup. It's up to you to determine what your acceptable level of performance is. However, I went blue->red specifically for the 8-core SMT support, and then on to Threadripper for 16-core SMT (we have 2 streamers). I think if you want to upgrade, definitely go the 2700x or the more affordable 1700/1700x/1800x. Blue isn't bad, but you get more parallel breathing room on Ryzen. Then, I'd give your VM 4 cores (due to the CCX architecture) and leave at least 1-2 of the others for dedicated virtualization. The other 2-3 go to your other tasks, which by your signature may be numerous, but may not need to be blisteringly fast. Tbh given all those jobs I'm impressed you're running so well on one core for UnRaid. I would personally upgrade. My sig shows a lot but that's mostly just gear. About the only thing really happening regularly in the docker is PLEX. What's your thought on my Option 1--switching from the blue 3570 to the red 8350? Think it would it help much? Thanks again. Quote Link to comment
phbigred Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 If you have the hardware laying around you could, assuming you have a disk in the 8350, get a trial license of unraid. Install it on a jump box and copy the xml file UUID and rebuild the VM xml file and VM over. Make sure to get the uuid line over, that's what identifies your device license. Test it out, see if it meets your needs. I know the framerate problems were identified as an AMD KVM bug about a year ago. So the limitation might be gone. I used to only get 25-30 fps in games for example with my 8350. But I moved away from it and retired the hardware before that was fixed. Worst case you are out some time, but it should answer the question for you. Quote Link to comment
thenonsense Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 AMD framerate issue is resolved as of ~September 2017. I think you'll be fine with the 8350. It offers less than a dedicated 3570 in gaming, but you don't have a dedicated 3570 anyways. Definitely give the 3570 a shot. The above tip isn't bad, to get a whole new unraid drive set up. That way you don't have to worry about destroying the good config on your current drive. However, I think (if you're careful) you can get away with an option in the boot config for your 8350, and likewise a duplicate VM config but optimized for the 8350. Quote Link to comment
NewDisplayName Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Dont know why all pin their cores, i just noticed worser performance if i do that. Quote Link to comment
ksignorini Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 On 12/29/2018 at 8:43 PM, thenonsense said: Then, I'd give your VM 4 cores (due to the CCX architecture)... Specifically what about CCX with Ryzen 7? Which 4 cores (I assume that with CCX, that matters)? Quote Link to comment
thenonsense Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 You'll need to do some research with your specific build but some combination of half the cores on your config will be on the same CCX and have excellent communication speed between each other, while the other 4 will be in their own tight group, and bridging them will be a line of communication called infinity fabric. This inter-ccx means is still a relatively fast line, but 1/3 the speed of intra-ccx. I've spawned a thread talking about this, specifically with Threadripper, but it applies to all chips on the Ryzen architecture with more than one CCX/die. Best you can do is contact your Mobo manufacturer, open a ticket, and ask them to get back to you, because it's not a common usecase. I recommend this strat because you can call up a bunch of manufacturers, ask about a ton of different boards, and even let that factor into your decision if nothing else. I have nice groupings of consecutive integers, whereas some split even-odd, or top-bottom. Quote Link to comment
ksignorini Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 45 minutes ago, thenonsense said: You'll need to do some research with your specific build but some combination of half the cores on your config will be on the same CCX and have excellent communication speed between each other, while the other 4 will be in their own tight group, and bridging them will be a line of communication called infinity fabric. This inter-ccx means is still a relatively fast line, but 1/3 the speed of intra-ccx. So this is MB specific? Not just based on the design of the chip? Quote Link to comment
thenonsense Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 It is NOT just based on the design of the chip. It is based on how the mobo manufacturer decides to pass through the cores. I don't make the rules, I just ask they be documented. And sometimes for them to be changed when they're stupid. Quote Link to comment
ksignorini Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 Very interesting. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
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