PSU recommendation

[TODDLT]

I've been having some issues when I tried to pre-clear a drive.. and it was suggested that I may have tapped my PSU.  Based on the behavior, this is making some sense so looking for the gut check and recommendations on a replacement.

 

I currently have a 7 year old Corsair HX 750, silver certified.  It's been flawless and even handled the load I have just put on it, a few months ago just fine but the past couple days the errors in doing 2 pre-clears at once have been strange.  (link to preclear forum):  https://forums.unraid.net/topic/3930-preclearsh-results-questions-about-your-results-post-them-here/?do=findComment&comment=723804

 

My server has:

2 parity HDD drives

2 SSD array drives

2 SSD cache drives

8 array HDD

2 warm HDD spares

1 external back up drive (off the power grid eSata conected)

2 slots for preclears on the power grid, eSata connected

 

My trouble started occurring while doing dual pre-clears.  I have done it with the same number of connected drives before but that was a few months ago.  The idea of a bad PSU seems to fit if you look at the 2 day saga in the above link so looking for thoughts and ultimately options.

 

1.  Based on the above load and see my signature for the rest of my hardware configuration.... do you think this seems like a PSU issue?

2.  If I'm going to replace it I would like it sized for the max I could fit in this case (with future cages).  4 SSD's,  16 HDD's, E3 Xeon, 2 LSI controller cards

2. Recommendations on PSU?  Manufacturer?  Model?

3. is it worth getting platinum?  AT the time I the HX 750 was silver but today everything is Gold if not Plat.

 

Thanks All

 

[tr0910]

Of course go with a gold or platinum PSU if you can find a deal.  I wouldn't think that you need more watts for the number of drives you are proposing.  But there is a power calculator for your drives that will tell you for sure. 

 

Unless you plan on running hot enterprise disks in the future, most drives nowadays are getting more and more power efficient.  Its better to run your PSU in the sweet zone.  This means don't overbuy and get an 1100 watt monster.  Far better to stick with a right sized 750w quality PSU.  Your electrical bill will thank you every month into the future.

[TODDLT]

1 hour ago, tr0910 said:

Of course go with a gold or platinum PSU if you can find a deal.  I wouldn't think that you need more watts for the number of drives you are proposing.  But there is a power calculator for your drives that will tell you for sure. 

 

Unless you plan on running hot enterprise disks in the future, most drives nowadays are getting more and more power efficient.  Its better to run your PSU in the sweet zone.  This means don't overbuy and get an 1100 watt monster.  Far better to stick with a right sized 750w quality PSU.  Your electrical bill will thank you every month into the future.

So your saying degradation is the real issue, not the current size actually being on the bubble with my hard drive count?   The calculators say 500, and I always thought 750 was plenty.   However, the errors make me question.

[TODDLT]

Apologies, this should have been in the PSU thread...  wasn't paying attention late last night.

[DieFalse]

It seems as if one of your rails is losing integrity.  Go with a gold or platinum  750, youre at the right wattage.

[TODDLT]

9 hours ago, fmp4m said:

It seems as if one of your rails is losing integrity.  Go with a gold or platinum  750, youre at the right wattage.

its a single rail PSU.  This is the desired setup, correct? so you don't have to worry about balancing between rails?

[TODDLT]

Does anyone if the HXI series from Corsair is good/bad for our setups?

 

EDITED and Corrected below:

 

However the HXI says it is digitally controlled and monitored by software (don't care, and doubt we can use).  Then goes on to say it is multi rail configuration by default and can change it to a single rail using software?  The HX series has a physical switch to make this change.   

 

We want a single rail configuration, correct?  Dont want to have to balance drives between rails?  If the change can only be made by software that probably means the HXI is a no go.

 

The HXI 850 says it has 16 SATA connectors out of the box.  The HX850 has 12.  If this is because there is one less 4 connector cables then no problem because I'll have some spare 4 connector cables.  However if they only include 3 connectors on the cables it means I may need to look for cables.  I know they make 3 connector cables too.

The HX 1050 has 16 SATA connectors, but I'd rather stay with the 850.

The HX 750 actually drops from 6 SATA / Peripheral plugs down to 5, so I think I'm staying with an 850 or 1050.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by TODDLT

[tr0910]

Yep single rail 750 platinum sounds right.  I am using a 650 if that gives you any satisfaction.

[TODDLT]

41 minutes ago, tr0910 said:

Yep single rail 750 platinum sounds right.  I am using a 650 if that gives you any satisfaction.

I think its either a Corsair HX850 or AX860.   They both have 6 plugs for SATA/Peripheral .. the 7XX Watt PSU's have 5.   I am just leaving a little for the future.

 

I was reading the AX series is actually made by Seasonic and is a great unit, and the Corsair actually has more plugs on it than the equivalent Seasonic unit.  The HX is no slouch and I don't know that I need it the step up to AX....  There is $40 difference between them.

 

The other little perk is the AX I can get Sunday instead of Monday if I order either in the morning and it would be nice to get it installed while I have time, so will decide then and pull the trigger.

 

Thoughts of course are welcome.

 

 

[TODDLT]

I decided on the HX850.. $40 less, the warranty is 3 years longer than the AX, and seems to be an excellent PSU with tight voltage control.  I'll wait the extra day.

 

Has anyone ever seen a braided PSU modular power cable with 4 SATA connectors?   The Corsair cables are ribbon style (see 1st photo) and have right angle plugs.  I have 4 SDD's all close together and a braided style cable with straight plugs would be nice (see 2nd photo).  However I've only seen these with 3 connectors and I need 4.

 

 

[Frank1940]

I did a very quick read through of this thread.  I want to caution you about these detachable power cables that many vendors are now providing with their power supplies.  They are not interchangeable between vendors for sure.  (One fellow zapped several hard drives when he did so!)  I would even be careful on mixing cables from the same vendor.  (Different product lines could be sourced from different suppliers.)  Buzz testing is the surest way to make sure that the right voltages end up on the correct pins on the hard drive connector end! 

[TODDLT]

5 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

I did a very quick read through of this thread.  I want to caution you about these detachable power cables that many vendors are now providing with their power supplies.  They are not interchangeable between vendors for sure.  (One fellow zapped several hard drives when he did so!)  I would even be careful on mixing cables from the same vendor.  (Different product lines could be sourced from different suppliers.)  Buzz testing is the surest way to make sure that the right voltages end up on the correct pins on the hard drive connector end! 

Thanks, good advice.   I did not know they were all different.  

 

I did find one website that seems to make custom cables for different PSU's in custom layouts but no telling how expensive that would be.

[JorgeB]

4 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

I would even be careful on mixing cables from the same vendor. 

And all should, for example Corsair's cables for the CX/CS series won't work on the HX series, others models are likely the same as well.

[TODDLT]

1 hour ago, johnnie.black said:

And all should, for example Corsair's cables for the CX/CS series won't work on the HX series, others models are likely the same as well.

I have an older HX-750 (7 years).  Any way to be sure they are the same?  Maybe try with an old hard drive first?

[sonofdbn]

You can check Corsair PSU cable compatibility on the Corsair website.

[Frank1940]

1 hour ago, TODDLT said:

Any way to be sure they are the same?

Use a Volt Meter to measure the voltages and make sure that the proper voltages appear on the right pins on the hard drive end. 

[TODDLT]

1 hour ago, sonofdbn said:

You can check Corsair PSU cable compatibility on the Corsair website.

I have an HX750 Silver.   The chart has HX platnium, gold, and HXI all compatible.  HX Bronze and White not..... but no silver shown.

[JorgeB]

You can look at the PSU side plug and check if cables are on the positions.

[TODDLT]

5 hours ago, johnnie.black said:

You can look at the PSU side plug and check if cables are on the positions.

Well there is a simple process that should have been obvious to me.   With this style cable, it should be easy to follow and make sure they are the same.

Thanks.

[TODDLT]

HX 850 installed.  As it turned out, it came with 4 - 4 plug SATA connectors.  16 was what I was looking for so, all good there. 

 

I did check the cable style though and am convinced my old HX750 was in fact an old style plug too.  The PATA's matched pin pattern - 4 wire modular.  There are two style SATA's (flat and 90 degree) and neither of those matched the pin pattern on the PSU plug, and in fact both of those styles had a different pin pattern.  Odd that one matched and the other didn't.  Looking back at the compatibility chart, while it didn't specifically list the silver HX750, it drew a line with a bronze model that had a fixed 24 pin plug (my old silver is a fixed 24 pin), and also said "original PATA/SATA only"  The fully modular HX models had a Type 3 PATA/SATA.   

 

Thanks to you guys who pointed it out to me, you just may have saved my butt!   

 

OK 2 preclears starting tonight and fingers crossed my problem is solved.

[TODDLT]

I meant to ask, would you use multi-rail mode or single rail mode.  I have always heard get a single rail PSU for a server, but tonight read that using multi-rail prevents more than 40 amps from going down any single 12V Cable?  I have 4 SATA and 2 PATA cables:

4 spinners on each of 3 cables (SATA)

4 SSD's on 1 cable (SATA)

2 preclear slots on 1 cable (PATA - 4 wire)

and 7 case fans on 1 cable (PATA - 4 wire)

 

Thoughts?

Edited February 26, 2019 by TODDLT

[JonathanM]

8 hours ago, TODDLT said:

I meant to ask, would you use multi-rail mode or single rail mode.  I have always heard get a single rail PSU for a server, but tonight read that using multi-rail prevents more than 40 amps from going down any single 12V Cable?

Single rail is more forgiving, it allows installation without planning as far as power budget goes. If the supply can make enough power, and the wires are thick enough to deliver it without loss, you are good.

 

Multi rail demands more thought and engineering knowledge. You have to make sure that each rail is matched to the loads that you need it to run, and many times the stock configuration of a multi rail power supply doesn't allow enough amps to reach the SATA power connectors. That means either sourcing different cables for a modular supply, or building them yourself if the manufacturer doesn't provide that configuration, or cutting and splicing a non-modular power supply.

 

Reconfiguring a multi rail supply is WAY above many people's pay grade, so the standard answer for people wanting to run large numbers of hard drives on consumer grade power supplies is to go single rail.

[Frank1940]

8 hours ago, TODDLT said:

I have always heard get a single rail PSU for a server, but tonight read that using multi-rail prevents more than 40 amps from going down any single 12V Cable? 

There are so many ways to interpret what you just said.  It appears that there are  six SATA outlets on that supply.  Are they saying that each outlet is limited to 40A or that all six are limited to 40A?  Where did you find this specification?

[TODDLT]

30 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

There are so many ways to interpret what you just said.  It appears that there are  six SATA outlets on that supply.  Are they saying that each outlet is limited to 40A or that all six are limited to 40A?  Where did you find this specification?

Yes there are 6 outlets on the PSU for SATA/Peripheral connections.  That is the reason I went to an 850 instead of the 750 which only has 5 now (my old 750 has 6). 

It came right out of the user manual.  Reads to me that each SATA/PATA/Peripheral plug can carry up to 40A.

 

See photo clip

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by TODDLT

[Frank1940]

That's how I would read it too!!!   Each SATA outlet is limited to 40A.   And you REALLY don't want 40 amperes flowing down the wire used in any of those SATA connectors.   I would be tempted to use the "Multiple" position just to provide a bit of protection in case something really screwy happens.  (There have been a few cases where molded SATA power connectors have shorted out (manufacturing defects) and caused a fire (or fire-like conditions).