Hello,

 

I've been reading the forums and recommended system configurations on the Wiki for some time now and am ready to build an unRaid media server.  But before spending money on new components for the server I am looking at using the following components from an older PC:

 

Mboard: ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe with 4 SATA 1.0 (150MB/s) ports, AGP video, PCI expansion slots (no PCIe), 800MHz FSB, and Intel Gbit LAN

CPU: Pentium 4 3.4Ghz Extreme unlocked (therefore can reduce operating frequency)

RAM: 4GB Kingston 400MHz DDR Non-ECC CL3 (2x KVR400X64C3AK2/2G)

Video Card: EVGA Nvidia GeForce 6800 GT 256MB (overkill, I know, but its free.  May have an old PCI video card in the parts bin for a low power option)

HD: use newer existing drives - 2x Caviar Black 1TB WD1002FAEX and 1x Caviar Black 1TB WD1001FALS

Power Supply: Antec True Power 480

Case: new Thermaltake Armor VA8000 BWS that has been sitting around for several years - has 11 3.5" bays in front.

 

Additional components to purchase:

• PROMISE SATA300 TX4 PCI SATA II (3.0Gb/s) 4-Port Adapter for additional SATA ports
  
• Three additional WD drives for a total of 7 (6 disk array and one parity drive)
  
• Two Cooler Master STB-3T4-E3-GP 4-in-3 Device Module Hardisk Cages (hot swapping is not necessary)
  

 

Questions:  Based on your experience with unRaid do you think the older hardware (Mboard & CPU in particular) will work for the server?  Are there any obvious issues? Will it have enough throughput to stream HD and Blu-ray content to two or more HTPCs concurrently?

 

Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions!

 

Regards,

 

Peaceful

Questions:  Based on your experience with unRaid do you think the older hardware (Mboard & CPU in particular) will work for the server?  Are there any obvious issues? Will it have enough throughput to stream HD and Blu-ray content to two or more HTPCs concurrently?

 

Theoretically, i dont think you would have a problem with 2 HTPCs. The good thing is that what you already have is enough to test it without buying anything new. That's what i would do.

 

Mboard: ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe with 4 SATA 1.0 (150MB/s) ports, AGP video, PCI expansion slots (no PCIe), 800MHz FSB, and Intel Gbit LAN

CPU: Pentium 4 3.4Ghz Extreme unlocked (therefore can reduce operating frequency)

RAM: 2 GB Kingston PC2-6400

Video Card: EVGA Nvidia GeForce 6800 GT 256MB (overkill, I know, but its free.  May have an old PCI video card in the parts bin for a low power option)

HD: use newer existing drives - 2x Caviar Black 1TB WD1002FAEX and 1x Caviar Black 1TB WD1001FALS

Case: new Thermaltake Armor VA8000 BWS that has been sitting around for several years - has 11 3.5" bays in front.

 

you should check the forum to see if anyone else has used or tried this mobo, but i think you will be ok.

What I think is problematic is that you have only 4 SATAs (the 150MB/s is not a problem) and no PCI-E. PCI's max speed is 133MB/s (anyone correct me if i am wrong), so 4 disks on a pc will go quite slow, especially in parity checks. you would be better with two 2-ports PCI cards on 2 pci slots (another thing i dont know is if all pci slots share the same bus, which would mean that this will make no difference). of course, you wont ever be able to scale to a more than 10-12 HDDs server. Also, parity drive should be placed on the Mobo's SATA port, especially if you buy the 4-port SATA card.

 

Three additional WD drives

 

its mentioned very often not to buy multiple drives in a buy because if there is a faulty batch you have high risks of simultaneous fails. so it might be better if you disperse your HDD buys or buy different brands or at least not buy exactly the same drive

 

Two Cooler Master STB-3T4-E3-GP 4-in-3 Device Module Hardisk Cages (hot swapping is not necessary)

 

I also do not have Hot swappable Drive Modules. Still, if i found some cheap ones i would buy them. installing drives in them is simply so much easier. In my lian li modules, i have to completely remove the whole cage, insert the disk and then screw it back and reconnect all cables. with hot swappable modules you dont even have to open the case

its mentioned very often not to buy multiple drives in a buy because if there is a faulty batch you have high risks of simultaneous fails. so it might be better if you disperse your HDD buys or buy different brands or at least not buy exactly the same drive

 

 

Superstitious nonsense. 

its mentioned very often not to buy multiple drives in a buy because if there is a faulty batch you have high risks of simultaneous fails. so it might be better if you disperse your HDD buys or buy different brands or at least not buy exactly the same drive

 

 

Superstitious nonsense. 

 

It has nothing to do with superstition. It is only a reasonable measure of protection stemming from the certainty that there will always be faulty batches of electronics, faulty firmware etc

its mentioned very often not to buy multiple drives in a buy because if there is a faulty batch you have high risks of simultaneous fails. so it might be better if you disperse your HDD buys or buy different brands or at least not buy exactly the same drive

 

 

Superstitious nonsense.  

 

It has nothing to do with superstition. It is only a reasonable measure of protection stemming from the certainty that there will always be faulty batches of electronics, faulty firmware etc

 

Statistically your car will be in an accident.  So by the same logic, you shouldn't drive it twice in the same day...or never to the same place twice...or only 3 times a week to cut down the odds.  Most accidents happen within blocks of home.  You should park your car 1/2 mile away and walk home from there.

It's 2010 in case you haven't noticed. 

its mentioned very often not to buy multiple drives in a buy because if there is a faulty batch you have high risks of simultaneous fails. so it might be better if you disperse your HDD buys or buy different brands or at least not buy exactly the same drive

 

 

Superstitious nonsense.  

 

It has nothing to do with superstition. It is only a reasonable measure of protection stemming from the certainty that there will always be faulty batches of electronics, faulty firmware etc

 

Statistically your car will be in an accident.  So by the same logic, you shouldn't drive it twice in the same day...or never to the same place twice...or only 3 times a week to cut down the odds.  Most accidents happen within blocks of home.  You should park your car 1/2 mile away and walk home from there.

It's 2010 in case you haven't noticed. 

 

You are, right, all these are very valid points. You may start a new thread on this subject, now let's stop hijacking the thread so that Peaceful may get some useful feedback

I don't see any reason why that board wouldn't work. It's certainly worth a shot. If it doesn't work, you're out nothing but a little time. You might as well go ahead and use the video card you have. I don't think there's any such thing as an AGP SATA controller anyway. You could probably add a PCI 2 port controller, bringing your total up to six. From there, it will be time for a new motherboard, CPU and probably power supply.

I had a very similar motherboard in my first unraid configuration (see left). Worked fine. Great way to get your feet wet. You can incrementally upsize disks to 2t ones and get to 8 or 10 tb pretty easily. Going past there parity checks will get slow - but I ran mine with 5 extra drives for a while.  The nice thing about this approach is that you don't have much initial cash outlay and all of your investment in drives is totally transferable to a new motherboard if and when you decide.

Thanks to all of you that replied to my questions so far.  This is one of the aspects of this forum that makes it really stand out - people are more than happy to help each other.

 

papnikol:

 

Theoretically, i dont think you would have a problem with 2 HTPCs. The good thing is that what you already have is enough to test it without buying anything new. That's what i would do.

My thought exactly.  While I've built numerous PCs and HTPCs, and tried a few Linux variations, running an unRaid server will be a new experience.  Better to keep the initial cost low until one has learned to walk, so to speak.

 

you should check the forum to see if anyone else has used or tried this mobo, but i think you will be ok.

Good point.  I did check before posting my questions but so far no one had tested my specific board.

 

What I think is problematic is that you have only 4 SATAs (the 150MB/s is not a problem) and no PCI-E. PCI's max speed is 133MB/s (anyone correct me if i am wrong), so 4 disks on a pc will go quite slow, especially in parity checks. you would be better with two 2-ports PCI cards on 2 pci slots (another thing i dont know is if all pci slots share the same bus, which would mean that this will make no difference). of course, you wont ever be able to scale to a more than 10-12 HDDs server. Also, parity drive should be placed on the Mobo's SATA port, especially if you buy the 4-port SATA card.

Good points.  I didn't think through the bandwidth issue of having 4 SATAs on one PCI controller.  With my PCI 2.0 bandwidth of 133Mb/s it seems like a potential bottleneck for data transfer.  And adding more PCI controllers erodes the low-cost value of using the older components.  Better to keep the number of discs at 4 and experiment at that level.

 

Peaceful

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see any reason why that board wouldn't work. It's certainly worth a shot. If it doesn't work, you're out nothing but a little time. You might as well go ahead and use the video card you have. I don't think there's any such thing as an AGP SATA controller anyway. You could probably add a PCI 2 port controller, bringing your total up to six. From there, it will be time for a new motherboard, CPU and probably power supply.

 

I've not seen a SATA AGP controller anywhere either.  it's probably the proverbial unicorn of controller cards.  As you suggest, any investment in PCI controller should probably be limited to a 2 port version.  Maybe it's just better to follow the KISS principle and only utilize the on-board SATA ports for now.  That would allow me to test with the free basic version (3 disc array + parity disc).

 

Peaceful

Basic version is three disks total: so two data + one parity.

of course, you wont ever be able to scale to a more than 10-12 HDDs server. Also, parity drive should be placed on the Mobo's SATA port, especially if you buy the 4-port SATA card.

 

Why not? I've got a similar setup (see Rig 2 in my sig - 14 drives). Parity checks will be slow (mine are) and you may need to upgrade the PSU.

 

I don't care that parity checks are slow, as my P4 server has small (500GB or less) drives, so parity checks don't have to check as much data.

of course, you wont ever be able to scale to a more than 10-12 HDDs server. Also, parity drive should be placed on the Mobo's SATA port, especially if you buy the 4-port SATA card.

 

Why not? I've got a similar setup (see Rig 2 in my sig - 14 drives). Parity checks will be slow (mine are) and you may need to upgrade the PSU.

 

I don't care that parity checks are slow, as my P4 server has small (500GB or less) drives, so parity checks don't have to check as much data.

 

You are right. But bear in mind that Peaceful mentioned 1TB drives and that he was thinking of buying some more (i guess of the same or larger size). If you already have those disks maybe it is worth it. Otherwise you have to buy small disks which is not cost effective (especially in the long run), especially if you take in account the power consumption of 14 old drives containing the data of 3 new green ones...

 

Just out of curiosity, how much time does the parity check take?

 

Good points.  I didn't think through the bandwidth issue of having 4 SATAs on one PCI controller.  With my PCI 2.0 bandwidth of 133Mb/s it seems like a potential bottleneck for data transfer.  And adding more PCI controllers erodes the low-cost value of using the older components.  Better to keep the number of discs at 4 and experiment at that level.

 

 

To be honest, PCI SATA controllers are very cheap and you can use them in a new rig too. so if you are not in a hurry to add 15 HDs, a PCI SATA controller can help you while being cost-effective

of course, you wont ever be able to scale to a more than 10-12 HDDs server. Also, parity drive should be placed on the Mobo's SATA port, especially if you buy the 4-port SATA card.

 

Why not? I've got a similar setup (see Rig 2 in my sig - 14 drives). Parity checks will be slow (mine are) and you may need to upgrade the PSU.

 

I don't care that parity checks are slow, as my P4 server has small (500GB or less) drives, so parity checks don't have to check as much data.

 

You are right. But bear in mind that Peaceful mentioned 1TB drives and that he was thinking of buying some more (i guess of the same or larger size). If you already have those disks maybe it is worth it. Otherwise you have to buy small disks which is not cost effective (especially in the long run), especially if you take in account the power consumption of 14 old drives containing the data of 3 new green ones...

 

Just out of curiosity, how much time does the parity check take?

 

Yeah, I wouldn't put any new drives in my second server. The max size drive it will have is 500GB.

The power consumption is fairly high, but it basically contains backups, so is only switched on for an hour or so per week meaning the total power consumption is negligible.

 

Eventually, it'll probably end up containing 21 500GB drives, which I'm certainly not going to throw out. I'd need to spend about £420 on 2TB drives to get the same capacity.

 

Parity checks take about 12 hours, from memory.

 

 

Yeah, I wouldn't put any new drives in my second server. The max size drive it will have is 500GB.

The power consumption is fairly high, but it basically contains backups, so is only switched on for an hour or so per week meaning the total power consumption is negligible.

 

Eventually, it'll probably end up containing 21 500GB drives, which I'm certainly not going to throw out. I'd need to spend about £420 on 2TB drives to get the same capacity.

 

Parity checks take about 12 hours, from memory.

 

12 hours is not bad at all, especially since you are talking about using it just for backups and you have so many small drives available. additionally you can have your rig sleeping thus minimizing the consumption a lot...

 

Obviously the solution is no good for 2TB because parity checking would take  2 days

If you are in the US, monoprice has some really cheap PCI SATA cards that you could play with:

 

2 port

 

4 port

 

Or if you want something more heavy-duty, I've got a used 4 port Promise TX4 that I would be willing to sell cheap.  PM me if you want it.

 

Happy testing!

Mboard: ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe with 4 SATA 1.0 (150MB/s) ports, AGP video, PCI expansion slots (no PCIe), 800MHz FSB, and Intel Gbit LAN

 

Questions:  Based on your experience with unRaid do you think the older hardware (Mboard & CPU in particular) will work for the server?  Are there any obvious issues? Will it have enough throughput to stream HD and Blu-ray content to two or more HTPCs concurrently?

 

How is the on-board SATA tied in?  If it's on the PCI bus, you're going to have performance issues during parity checks and rebuilds.  And, if that controller's on the PCI bus, the gigabit LAN probably is, too.  And if both of those controllers are already on the PCI bus, I certainly wouldn't recommend spending money on an additional PCI SATA controller.

 

FWIW, I wouldn't invest in a PCI SATA controller no matter what.  While you can get a 4-port that will work with unRAID for $35 or so, it just doesn't seem like money well spent.  If you're unhappy with its performance on the current system, you're not going to be any better off using that same controller on a new system.

 

I think if you get to the point of needing to go beyond the 4 SATA ports on the motherboard, you'd get more bang for your buck by spending $60-100 or so on a budget motherboard/CPU combo.

 

What you've got will give you a taste of unRAID but the performance bottlenecks can't be overcome without moving to a more modern motherboard.  Nothing at all to do with the CPU directly.  It's the slow PCI bus that's getting in the way.