madshi Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Hello, need more space, so I'm looking into expanding my server by adding harddisks externally. Found this: http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas_cables_enclosures/ If I understand it correctly, I could simply add a Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 controller to my PC and connect the controller's two mini-SAS ports with that "8 bay SAS/SATA Hotswap Tower Enclosure". That should give me 8 more harddisks with full PCIe speed. Correct? Link to comment
kenoka Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Sheesh, for those prices you could rebuild your server in a Norco. It's much better in terms of dollars per bay. Link to comment
madshi Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Yeah, the prices are rather high for a simple harddrive enclosure with a few cable and a power supply. But then, it would be "easy to use", I could keep my unRAID tower exactly as it is (just with an additional SuperMicro controller card). Anyway, ignoring the prices, it should technically work just fine, shouldn't it? I mean there are no port multipliers which need special support by unRAID, or anything like that. To unRAID using such an external SAS solution should look like simple internal SATA drives, connected to the SuperMicro controller, right? Link to comment
ohlwiler Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I think it will work fine. You also need: (2) 1m External MiniSAS Cable SFF-8088 to SFF-8088 (1) 2-Port SFF-8087 to SFF-8088 Adapter For about another $150. Link to comment
madshi Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Thanks. Those external SAS cables are quite expensive... Link to comment
Rajahal Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Yeah, this solution really doesn't make much financial sense. What are the specs of your current hardware (especially the case and PSU)? Maybe we can offer some suggestions about other expansion options. Link to comment
madshi Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 I'm open for any suggestions. Here's my current hardware: - tower case with eleven 3.5" harddisk bays, I think it was named "CM stacker" or something like that - Intel 1156 mainboard "MSI H55M-ED55" - Intel Core i3 530 - 4GB RAM - onboard GPU - 6 onboard SATA ports - 2x PCIe x16 slots (one currently empty) - 1x SuperMicro PCIe SAS controller with 8 SATA ports - 620W power supply "Corsair HX620W", but only 2 independent 12V rails, I think - 11 harddisks I'd like to be able to add some more harddisks, but the tower case doesn't have room for any more. I was thinking 4 more would be nice, or even 8 more. Link to comment
kenoka Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 The Norco 4220 is the most popular here for big builds. It has 20 hot swappable hard drive bays for around $300. Link to comment
Rajahal Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 OK, you've got some good hardware to work with, so this shouldn't be too difficult. Here's a few options: Recommended Replace the case with a Norco 4220 ($300). Replace your PSU with the Corsair 650W (either modular for $120 or not modular for $90). Buy a second SuperMicro card ($110). Buy four SAS cables ($60). Buy a single SAS-SATA reverse breakout cable ($13). The above will give you 20 drive support for a total of $575 (with the non-modular PSU) + shipping. Cheapest Pack your current case with SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1Bs. I'm not sure how many 5.25" bays your case has, but you can fit one of these units into every multiple of 3 5.25" bays. You may also need the PSU and SuperMicro card I listed above. You would also need one or two SAS-SATA forward breakout cables depending on how many drives you have. About your PSU: Your PSU actually has three +12V rails at 18A each. I don't know the specifics, but I'm guessing that at most two of these are dedicated to powering drives. That means that you can expect to max out at around 14 or 15 drives. I'm not saying you can't use it for your server, but it isn't ideal. It is still a good quality PSU for another application, such as a desktop or gaming computer. It just isn't that appropriate for unRAID. The Corsair 650w that I linked above has 52A on a single rail, so it can power up to around 24 green drives. Link to comment
bcbgboy13 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I believe CM stacker is a big case. If you are handy you can look at this post for ideas on how to add extra drives to your case: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2031.msg14880#msg14880 Link to comment
madshi Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Thanks for the detailed suggestions, Rajahal. That Norco case sounds like an interesting alternative. Two questions: (1) Can I simply put such a case on the floor? Or would I have to buy a rack "cage" or something? (2) I've just tried finding a Norco dealer here in Germany, but haven't found one. Are there similar cases available from other manufacturers? @bcbgboy13, unfortunately I'm not so handy... Link to comment
bcbgboy13 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Thanks for the detailed suggestions, Rajahal. That Norco case sounds like an interesting alternative. Two questions: (1) Can I simply put such a case on the floor? Or would I have to buy a rack "cage" or something? (2) I've just tried finding a Norco dealer here in Germany, but haven't found one. Are there similar cases available from other manufacturers? @bcbgboy13, unfortunately I'm not so handy... If you like the tower solutions look here - http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=8606.0 so see some nice and cheap cases available in Europe. If you do not mind Norco price (and you probably should count at around $50 for special cables in addition to the case plus possible quiet fans for more $$$) then you can get if from here: http://cybershop.ri-vier.nl/4u-rackmnt-server-case-w20-hotswap-satasas-drv-bays-rpc4220-p-18.html?zenid=757588a575c3e988dfb2d53ce5eecd55 or from UK here: http://www.xcase.co.uk/ You can place it on floor but you will have a huge problem with the dust that is down there. Best is to be on a small stand, coffee table or even higher but the case with 20 HD will be very heavy (possible 40 kg or more) so it has to be strong. Link to comment
MvL Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 You can place it on floor but you will have a huge problem with the dust that is down there. Best is to be on a small stand, coffee table or even higher but the case with 20 HD will be very heavy (possible 40 kg or more) so it has to be strong. Or buy an open rack! Link to comment
Rajahal Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 The tower solutions are very nice, but they are generally a lot more expensive. They can be up to about double the cost of the Norco (if you are looking for a full 20 drives). Still, much cheaper than the SAS enclosures you were originally looking at. You can run the Norco however you like, but I also recommend keeping it off the ground to keep dust out of it. At very least put it on top of some 2x4s or something, so that there's at least a few inches between it and the ground. It comes with 4 small rubber feet that you stick on yourself, but they are basically useless (the weight of the case will make them come off very easily if you slide it around at all). You can also run the Norco on it's side, like this. I found that was the best way minimize the server's footprint. As you can see in the pic, it is about the same height as a small computer tower. However, it is much, much longer (what you can't see in that pic is that it nearly reached the wall behind the cabinet). You just have to hang the front edge off the edge of the table as it is wider than the rest of the body. You also have to be careful not to scratch up your table with the small metal tabs that you would use to hook rails to the sides. Learned that one the hard way...Those tabs are only located towards the front of the case (you can see one in the picture), so the back 3/4 or more of the case is smooth metal and can be slid around. Link to comment
kenoka Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 Or buy an open rack! Or build your own! http://nethackz.com/build-your-own-diy-server-rack/ Link to comment
madshi Posted November 6, 2010 Author Share Posted November 6, 2010 Thanks for the many good suggestions, guys. Hmmmm... If I remove the power/reset panel, I could fit in 4 of those SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1Bs. That would also give me 20 drive capacity (just like the Norco) and it would fit into my current tower case. Price wise 4 of those CSE-M35T-1Bs (343,96 Euros) are less expensive here in Germany than importing the Norco case (410,55 Euros). Which advantages (if any) would the Norco have over putting 4 CSE-M35T-1Bs into my current case? Link to comment
kenoka Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 The main advantages of the Norco would be more room to work, potential for larger fans, and less labor required to get it going. To get the SM cages in, you'll have to manually bend back all the drive support tabs in the case, plus remove the power/reset panel. Are you sure that removing that panel gives you another bay? Link to comment
madshi Posted November 6, 2010 Author Share Posted November 6, 2010 Are you sure that I'd have to bend anything? It doesn't look like that to me. Here's a photo of my tower from the inside: http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/cases/cmstacker/ http://www.rage3d.com/image.php?pic=/reviews/cases/cmstacker/pics/chassis.jpg&comment=Chassis I have a slightly different version of that tower (my power supply is at the bottom, not the top), but I think the front with the drive bays is identical. Fan wise it seems the Norco can optionally be modded to have 3x 120mm fans in the middle wall instead of 4x 80mm fans. That's good. But then the back wall fans are 2x 80mm. My tower has 2x 120mm back wall fans. If I used those CSE-M35T-1Bs, I'd probably replace the SuperMicro fans with something more silent. So neither the Norco nor the CSE-M35T-1Bs have perfect fan setup. The Norco has 80mm back wall fans, the CSE-M35T-1Bs come with 90mm fans. In both cases I'd have to try to do some modding to get silent fans (hopefully 120mm) in. Link to comment
kenoka Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 The fan situation with the Norco is not ideal. Most people are using a pretty low power setup for their mobo and CPU, which keeps the heat down. If you get the larger fans and blow them toward the drives, the back fans should be more than adequate, especially if you replace them with quieter units. As for the tab issue: yours certainly looks a bit different. It looks like half height drives would be supported by the ovals sticking out between the bays. That might be fine, or it might mean the drive cages won't go in at all. If you have a vendor with a good return policy, I'd say it's certainly worth a try, since you can save a fair bit of money by sticking with your current setup. Link to comment
ohlwiler Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 I use the Cooler Master Stacker case. There are no tabs to bend for adding 5 in 3 backplanes. I added two of these in the bottom of my cage for six additional drives: http://store.antec.com/productimages/Standards/root/SXHDCAGE-drive%20cage_resize.jpg I'm using the (4) Cooler Master 4 in 3s in my 12 bays. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002 Link to comment
Rajahal Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 Now that I have a better idea of your case, I think the SuperMicro cages are the way to go. Link to comment
madshi Posted November 6, 2010 Author Share Posted November 6, 2010 Thank you all, once again. So I'll probably go with the SuperMicro cages, add another SuperMicro controller and get the bigger Corsair power supply. Should give me 20 drives instead of the current 11 drives. That's quite nice and not too expensive... Do you think I can simply remove the fans from the SuperMicro cages and rely for cooling only on the 2x 120mm case fans? I've already carefully "sealed" all case openings, so the only air intake should be through the front. The case fans exhaust the air out the back of the case. Link to comment
Rajahal Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 My guess would be no, but you can always try it. You could remove the fans, power on, and start a parity check (a parity check will exercise all the drives, and simulates your worst case scenario in terms of heat production). Watch it for the first 10 minutes or so. If any drives climb over 45 C, I would consider the test a failure. Link to comment
kenoka Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 The closer you put drives together, the hotter they get. I don't think they'll work without active cooling. You might experiment with some quieter fans though. See if you can find the CFM airflow numbers on the fans the Supermicros use, and shop accordingly. Link to comment
madshi Posted November 6, 2010 Author Share Posted November 6, 2010 Ok, thanks again! Link to comment
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