A newb's questions

[1BADRR]

 Hello all, my name is Mike.

 

 I was wondering if I could ask a few newb questions? I have attempted to find the answers myself but havent been very successful. Please have mercy on any question/s that may seem obvious or excessively newbish, I am new to servers and Unraid. 

 

 Basically, I want to take my gaming PC and divide it up into two VM gaming PC's (I am currently using the pc to write this post) .

 

Here are the specs to the system:

 

Mobo: Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 7

CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-8086K CPU @ 4.00GHz

Ram: G Skill Trident Z (32 Gig)

VC: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti

      Intel® UHD Graphics 630 (Onboard Video)

Nvme: Samsung SSD 970 EVO 1TB

          Samsung SSD 970 EVO 500GB

 

 What I would like to achieve:

Two separate VM pcs

Each using its own GPU 

Each running win10

Each having its own dedicated peripherals

 

Questions:

1.)  Help me understand the USB server. So the whole server is contained on a USB stick? As in, the USB stick is essentially the drive for the whole system?

2.) Am I right in thinking that the process for me would be to:

    - Create the USB drive using UNRAID USB Flash Device creator

    - Configure the bios

    - Boot to the USB

    - Access the server via another PC on my home network

    - Configure each NVME as its own VM and install a clean versions of windows on each

3.) Are there presets for doing what I want to do so I don't have to figure out all the settings in UNRAID? Like a template?

 

 Other than gaming and Microsoft Word, these will just be internet browsing PC systems.

 

 Thanks for helping in advance

 

Mike

 

   

         

 

 

[testdasi]

3 hours ago, 1BADRR said:

Basically, I want to take my gaming PC and divide it up into two VM gaming PC's (I am currently using the pc to write this post) .

...

Here are the specs to the system:

...

Each having its own dedicated peripherals

...

Questions:

1.)  Help me understand the USB server. So the whole server is contained on a USB stick? As in, the USB stick is essentially the drive for the whole system?

2.) Am I right in thinking that the process for me would be to:

    - Create the USB drive using UNRAID USB Flash Device creator

    - Configure the bios

    - Boot to the USB

    - Access the server via another PC on my home network

    - Configure each NVME as its own VM and install a clean versions of windows on each

3.) Are there presets for doing what I want to do so I don't have to figure out all the settings in UNRAID? Like a template?

1. The executable and configuration files are in the USB stick which it will boot from. Then things get copied into RAM and run out of RAM. The USB stick only provide the functionalities, the "whole system" isn't on it e.g. the storage array / cache pool, VM disks, docker image etc. are not on the USB stick. In Windows terms, it's like booting into Windows on a USB stick - everything else, including apps, will have to be stored somewhere else.
2. See below for longer answer
3. See below for longer answer 

 

So what you need to do, I'll break it into stages for you.

 

Stage 1 - buy stuff

• Get USB stick (with unique GUID - so don't buy cheap), preferably USB 2.0 stick but USB 3.0 is fine.
• You don't state you have something for storage other than the 2 NVMe drives so get a HDD to be used for the array. You need at least 1 drive in the array, even if you are using your server purely for VM i.e. no NAS storage requirement.
  • Ideally you want 1 HDD in the array and 1 SSD (256GB SATA would be the minimum in my opinion) in the cache pool.
• 1 more dedicated GPU - you only listed 1 dedicated GPU and you would want 2 for your 2 VMs.
  • While it is possible in some cases to pass through the iGPU to a VM, the process is more complicated so my general recommendation is avoid it if possible.
• You MAY need 1 more USB PCIe card - depending on what your IOMMU device layout is.

 

Stage 2 - feasibility assessment i.e. should things work for your use case in theory?

• Make sure all the necessary devices are plugged in - sounds redundant but I once spent an hour figuring out why my 970 isn't showing up when it was on the shelf behind me.
• Create the USB drive using UNRAID USB Flash Device creator.
  • Don't enable UEFI boot - see below
• Go into BIOS, enable everything that is necessary (e.g. VT-x, VT-d, IOMMU etc.)
  • Make sure to set your BIOS to boot in Legacy Mode (i.e. not UEFI). This will save you a lot of troubles in Stage 3 with Nvidia driver Error 43.
  • Make sure to set your BIOS to use the iGPU as the primary GPU (and connect your (boot) monitor to the motherboard port to be absolutely sure Unraid is using the iGPU to boot.
• Boot into the USB stick, watch for the boot selection screen and select GUI mode (i.e. no need a 2nd PC in the network to configure stuff!). The default timer will boot into non-GUI mode.
  • Preferably, use the USB 2.0 port on your motherboard if available.
• Go to Tools -> System Devices and review the PCI Devices and IOMMU Groups section to see if devices are in their own IOMMU groups.
  • If you are not sure what to look for, you can copy-paste the section here - we usually can help have a look to see if things are more or less ok
    • Please use the "Code" functionality on the forum (the </> button) when copy-pasting stuff from the GUI / code. It makes it a lot easier on the eyes to look for things.

 

Stage 3 - doing it - assuming it looks like things should work in theory

• Watch SpaceInvaderOne videos on Youtube. They are incredibly useful and you won't need to spend more than an hour. For your use case, pay attention to his basic configuration + VM set up + PCIe pass-through + NVMe boot videos.
  • I have never had any luck booting VM directly from NVMe drives but others have reported success so it should be possible.
  • I still recommend creating a vdisk (100GB is more than sufficient) for the VM to boot from and use the NVMe for apps and games. (Hence, I said ideally you want an SSD in the cache pool to store the vdisk image). It just saves you unnecessary issues.
• Boot into GUI mode and do the configuration, following the Youtube instructions as closely as possible.
• If you have problems, post on the forum and ask for help.

Edited September 4, 2019 by testdasi

[1BADRR]

 @testdasi

 

 Outside of the hardware listed I also have:

Western Digital 2TB HDD

Seagate 1TB HDD

Samsung 860 EVO

Nvidia GTX680

 

 If those will suffice then I just need to go buy a USB Flash drive. This is the only USB 2.0 I could find local to me:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/pny-attache-4-16gb-usb-2-0-flash-drive-black/3789011.p?skuId=3789011

 

 I actually used the UNRAID USB software to make a bootable last night but no matter what I did I couldnt get my system to boot from it. Perhaps it was because it didn't have a unique Identifier

 

 I understand that I will need to add the Sata & HDD to the system. Does the Sata plug that each connect to matter? Meaning, does the Sata SSD need to be on plug one... ect?

 One of NVME drives has my current Win10 64 Pro build on it. The other has my wifes VM machine (runs on Vmware Workstation 15 Pro but the FPS in game is just aweful) Will I need to just format both drives and reinstall through UNRAID via the server host software?

 Also, I have 3 physical computers at my house but they're not networked to mine, though they all connect to the same wireless cable router/modem. What would I have to do to access the server once its running?

 

I greatly appreciate your help. I will gladly tip ya via paypal if this works

 

Mike

Edited September 4, 2019 by 1BADRR
misspell

[Frank1940]

36 minutes ago, 1BADRR said:

This is the only USB 2.0 I could find local to me:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/pny-attache-4-16gb-usb-2-0-flash-drive-black/3789011.p?skuId=3789011

Should work fine.  It is made by a recognized manufacturer of memory devices.    Try to avoid getting one of the 'micro' USB drives as there are some indications that they are more prone to failure.  (Some suspect heat issues.)

[Hoopster]

45 minutes ago, 1BADRR said:

 I actually used the UNRAID USB software to make a bootable last night but no matter what I did I couldnt get my system to boot from it. Perhaps it was because it didn't have a unique Identifier

Could be the case, but sometimes, the Creator just does not work well with some USB sticks.  If you have the same problem with the new USB, try the manual method.

 

1. Download the latest unRAID zip file from the unraid.net

2. Extract the contents

3. Copy over all files to the USB drive

4. Run make_bootable.bat to make the USB drive bootable.

[testdasi]

1 hour ago, 1BADRR said:

 @testdasi

 

 Outside of the hardware listed I also have:

Western Digital 2TB HDD

Seagate 1TB HDD

Samsung 860 EVO

Nvidia GTX680

 

 If those will suffice then I just need to go buy a USB Flash drive. This is the only USB 2.0 I could find local to me:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/pny-attache-4-16gb-usb-2-0-flash-drive-black/3789011.p?skuId=3789011

 

 I actually used the UNRAID USB software to make a bootable last night but no matter what I did I couldnt get my system to boot from it. Perhaps it was because it didn't have a unique Identifier

 

 I understand that I will need to add the Sata & HDD to the system. Does the Sata plug that each connect to matter? Meaning, does the Sata SSD need to be on plug one... ect?

 One of NVME drives has my current Win10 64 Pro build on it. The other has my wifes VM machine (runs on Vmware Workstation 15 Pro but the FPS in game is just aweful) Will I need to just format both drives and reinstall through UNRAID via the server host software?

 Also, I have 3 physical computers at my house but they're not networked to mine, though they all connect to the same wireless cable router/modem. What would I have to do to access the server once its running?

 

I greatly appreciate your help. I will gladly tip ya via paypal if this works

 

Mike

Answers:

• I understand that I will need to add the Sata & HDD to the system. Does the Sata plug that each connect to matter? Meaning, does the Sata SSD need to be on plug one... ect?

  • Does not matter.

• One of NVME drives has my current Win10 64 Pro build on it. The other has my wifes VM machine (runs on Vmware Workstation 15 Pro but the FPS in game is just aweful) Will I need to just format both drives and reinstall through UNRAID via the server host software?

  • No need to format. You can pass through the NVMe to the VM as a PCIe device (i.e. just like a GPU - you will need to vfio-stub it - instructions are in SpaceInvaderOne videos) and it should just boot (in which case you don't need a VM vdisk and certainly don't need to format it). (Note: your VM should boot in OVMF mode and not SeaBIOS)

  • Even if it doesn't boot and you need a vdisk, you also don't need to format the NVMe disk if passed through. It should just appear to Windows the exact same way.

  • You can even convert the vmdk vdisk of your wife's VM into qcow2 / raw format to use for Unraid VM (still have to set up your VM template - can't convert that). I vaguely remember vmdk being supported directly, just need to edit the xml tag = vmdk but I have never used it.

  • While talking about format - your HDD in the array and the SSD in the cache pool will be formatted by Unraid so make sure you backup your data. Probably best way is to just copy stuff from the 850 and 1TB to the 2TB and keep the 2TB safe and outside of the case so there is zero chance of accidental format.

•  

  Also, I have 3 physical computers at my house but they're not networked to mine, though they all connect to the same wireless cable router/modem. What would I have to do to access the server once its running?

  •  

    If they are connected to the same router then shouldn't they be on the same network? What do you mean by "not networked to mine"?

The others can speak about the USB stick since I have not had any problem - and I can't possibly do any worse since I use a micro stick AND USB 3.0, all sort of "not recommended" stuff. 😅

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by testdasi

[1BADRR]

@testdasi

 

As far as not being networked, I just mean I cant see my other pcs from my pc. 

I will investigate how to make it so that they can see one another. 

I bought the flash drive and plan to test it today. 

 

Stay tuned ;)

[Frank1940]

54 minutes ago, 1BADRR said:

As far as not being networked, I just mean I cant see my other pcs from my pc. 

With Windows, you do have to set things up so that you can see and access other computers.  MS has been tightening security over the years so that you are not automatically exposed.  You will probably have to config the other computers as well. 

[1BADRR]

@testdasi

 

 So far I have managed to:

• Successfully create a USB Boot Drive 
• Set the bios up to allow the BOOT drive to boot as well as prepare the bios for hardware pass through to the VM'S
• Start up and do the initial configuration of UNRAID via a second PC
• Assign an array drive (2TB Drive)
• Assign a cache drive Samsung 840 SSD
• Assign a data drive (1TB Drive) 
• Start the Array - (Currently says "Array Started - Parity-Sync / Data-Rebuild 14%" So I guess its doing something)

 Questions:

I foolishly didnt think to wipe ANY of the three drives I just mentioned.... They all have win os installed on each. What should I do?

I am going to pass through the NVME drives as you suggested (if I can figure it out) So I DON'T assign them to be data drives on the array, right?

 

EDIT: I see it shows them as  unmountable: unsupported 

 

 Thanks

Edited September 5, 2019 by 1BADRR

[testdasi]

Drives don't have to be wiped prior to being added to the array / cache pool. The fact that you have reached Parity Sync suggests the drives have all been formatted.

 

Correct. DON'T assign into the array any drive that you intend to pass through.

In fact, if you use the vfio stubbing method in SpaceInvaderOne's video, the NVMe drives should not even show up for you to assign.

[1BADRR]

Does the error message mean anything important?

[testdasi]

14 minutes ago, 1BADRR said:

Does the error message mean anything important?

Yes it means something. The 1TB and the 840 have not been formatted.

I remember there's a box somewhere to format unmountable drives but can't remember - have not had to format anything for quite some time now (since I use the Preclear plugin). You might want to post a question in the General Support forum (alternatively, watch SpaceInvaderOne's video - I'm pretty sure it's in the basic set up guide).

 

Btw, if you have any data that you still want to recover from the 1TB and 840, now is the time.

[1BADRR]

@testdasi

 

I am setting up the VM'S now. I have been following Spaceinvader one's videos as they are extremely helpful. I do however have a few questions. 

 

1st.) I watched his video on passing through NVME drives to the VM. The issue is my 2 NVME drives don't show up in an IOMMU group. They show up listed as SCSI drives.

 

 

2nd.) I have to split up the CPU the the build. I know Spaceinvader One said that UNRAID likes to use core 1/6 for Itself. So how should I divide the remaining cores for the 2 VM'S?

Edited September 5, 2019 by 1BADRR

[testdasi]

3 minutes ago, 1BADRR said:

@testdasi

 

I am setting up the VM'S now. I have been following Spaceinvader one's videos as they are extremely helpful. I do however have a few questions. 

 

1st.) I watched his video on passing through NVME drives to the VM. The issue is my 2 NVME drives don't show up in an IOMMU group. They show up listed as SCSI drives.

They don't show up exactly as 970. You need to look for something like this:

Non-Volatile memory controller: Samsung Electronics Co Ltd NVMe SSD Controller SM981/PM981

For vfio stubbing purpose, I suspect your ID is 144d:a808 (cuz that's what my 970 and PM983 show up as)

[1BADRR]

 *Sorry, I think this edit showed up after your reply)

2nd.) I have to split up the CPU the the build. I know Spaceinvader One said that UNRAID likes to use core 1/6 for Itself. So how should I divide the remaining cores for the 2 VM'S?

 

 

"They don't show up exactly as 970. You need to look for something like this:"

- Non-Volatile memory controller: Samsung Electronics Co Ltd NVMe SSD Controller SM981/PM981

YES! They do! WHEW! I am super nervous I am going to mess this up!

 

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by 1BADRR

[testdasi]

30 minutes ago, 1BADRR said:

2nd.) I have to split up the CPU the the build. I know Spaceinvader One said that UNRAID likes to use core 1/6 for Itself. So how should I divide the remaining cores for the 2 VM'S?

Unraid prefers cpu 0. That's the only (logical) core you absolutely should leave out. The Hyperthreading sister (i.e. cpu 6) should be left out but it's not entirely necessary. For instance, you can pin the VM emulator to that core (it's in the SIO advance VM config video).

 

So for your 2 gaming VM, it depends on what sort of things you are running.

• So perhaps the 1080Ti VM will have 1,2,3,7,8,9 and the GTX680 VM will have 4,5,10,11.
• If the GTX680 VM is used mainly for web browsing and simple games then you can do 1-4+7-10 to the 1080Ti VM and 5+11 to the GTX 680 VM.
• You can even do 1,2,4,5,7,8,10,11 to 1080Ti VM and 3,9 to GTX 680 VM. Unlike Zen-based CPUs, the 8086K doesn't really need to care about CCD and CCX.

The only big no-no is to split the pair to different VM's e.g. cpu 1 to a VM and cpu 7 to a different VM.

Edited September 5, 2019 by testdasi

[1BADRR]

@testdasi

 

 ROFL! I just cant figure out how to get the .iso file on the server.... what am I doing wrong? So close to starting the first one. 

[testdasi]

1 hour ago, 1BADRR said:

@testdasi

 

 ROFL! I just cant figure out how to get the .iso file on the server.... what am I doing wrong? So close to starting the first one. 

That's where the cache pool / array comes into play. You create a share - call it iso or something and put the iso image there (which means the iso is on the cache pool (cache = Only / Prefer) or on the array). An alternative, assuming your USB stick is large enough (or if you have another USB stick), is to save the iso to the USB stick.

[1BADRR]

how do i create a share and how do i connect to the share

[testdasi]

17 minutes ago, 1BADRR said:

how do i create a share and how do i connect to the share

It's in the GUI. You might want to watch SpaceInvaderOne basic setup vid.

[1BADRR]

 

@testdasi

 

I got the .iso loaded. Windows boots to the repair screen but says it cant repair the drive. Then it says it needs to restart, when it restarts, this is what happens,,,,,

 

 ThoughtS?S

[HNGamingUK]

1 hour ago, 1BADRR said:

 

@testdasi

 

I got the .iso loaded. Windows boots to the repair screen but says it cant repair the drive. Then it says it needs to restart, when it restarts, this is what happens,,,,,

 

 ThoughtS?S

What BIOS does the VM have it set to?

 

Whenever I used a VM on UnRAID I would have it set to SeaBIOS (I no longer use UnRAID for VMs so not sure how things have changed)

Edited September 5, 2019 by Conmyster

[Squid]

https://wiki.unraid.net/index.php/UnRAID_OS_version_6_Upgrade_Notes#My_OVMF_VM_doesn.27t_boot_correctly

Sent from my NSA monitored device

[1BADRR]

I'm so green that I didn't know you had to set up a FTP to connect to the server remotely. I kept thinking crusader would do it for me. Live and learn I suppose.

 I got my 1st VM  Up and running now.  It is a black screen. And figure that's because I have to forward the video card Right

[Squid]

49 minutes ago, 1BADRR said:

I didn't know you had to set up a FTP to connect to the server remotely.

You don't need to.  I've never even bothered to setup the FTP access, and transferred everything over SMB