New build - Cannot use DOCP RAM profile


binhex

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Hi all, so i have recently built a new system (spec at the bottom), and in general its going nicely, however i have an issue regards RAM.

 

So in UEFI i can see that RAM is using the SPD values:-

 

SPD Latency 15-15-15-36
SPD Speed 2133MHz
SPD Voltage 1.2V

 

and with the above everything is hunky dorey, the system runs and is stable (runs for a number of days without issue) and everything is great. However if i then use DOCP, then i get issues (more on that in a sec), DOCP is correctly setting the timings (as per the spec of the ram modules), speed and voltage to the following:-

 

Tested Latency 16-18-18-35
Tested Voltage 1.2V
Tested Speed 2666MHz

 

The issue manifests itself as a complete crash of the system, and seems to be triggered by the starting of a Windows 10 VM (my only vm), in fact if i set the vm to auto start on boot then the system only stays up for a couple of minutes before a complete crash of the system (crash screenshot attached).

I have tried creating a new vm from scratch, this also crashed the system part way through the installation process, so pretty sure its not directly related to the vm itself. I have also tried reducing the number of cores and ram allocated to the vm, same crash.

 

So i figured its RAM related right, maybe faulty RAM, well according to memtest86 this is not the case, i ran it for 12 hours with 3 passes, 0 errors found (with DOCP profile), so im not sure whats going on really. 

 

I have attempted to rule out CPU issues by running 'stress' on the system for a number of hours, which ran fine with no issue and no crash. I have also disabled global-c-states, and set psu idle power to current setting, no improvement.

 

My only thoughts at the moment are to either trying pumping up the SOC voltage to try and get stability, or try incrementally increasing the RAM speed to find out the sweet spot and just accept i cannot achieve the 'Tested Speed' - but why does memtest86 pass, thats what does my noodle in!.

 

So anybody got any thoughts on this, seen it before?, anything else i can try?. is it possible it's kernel related (grasping at straws)?.

 

Components of the build:-

Seasonic SSR-750PD2 Prime Ultra 750 W Platinum

ASUS ROG STRIX X470-F Gaming

Corsair CMK32GX4M2A2666C16 Vengeance LPX 32 GB

AMD Ryzen 7 2700X

 

Crash screen, note the 'cpuidle_enter_state', i have seen this on multiple crashes, always the same thing, not sure if this is relevant?.
 

crash.jpg

Edited by binhex
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39 minutes ago, binhex said:

seen it before?

Quite common. 16GB module must dual rank and you have two. People think Intel memory controller always better then AMD, but I don't agree all. I test on two Z390 mainboard also can't easy run stock 2400 or 3000 XMP ( 4 dual rank modual )

 

39 minutes ago, binhex said:

but why does memtest86 pass

I don't like memtest86 because it can't quick identify stable or not. Recommand "HCI memory test" in Windows platform, it never make me disappointed.

 

For your case, suggest check command rate in 1T or 2T, this may solve can't run in DOCP ( 2666MHz ). Usually, I don't like tweak voltage or too much timing parameter.

 

 

Edited by Benson
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Is DOCP an Asus-specific thing? Can you simply set an XMP profile? Is that even an option? I see your RAM is on the QVL for Pinnacle Ridge processors so it should work fine as long as you don't try to push it.

 

I use mostly Gigabyte and ASRock motherboards at the moment but I do have an Asus Prime X470 Pro, which I don't think is hugely different from yours, with a 2700X. In each case I make sure the RAM is qualified when I order it and I simply set the XMP option, without trying to adjust any of the timings. The only problem I've had was with a clearly faulty DIMM, which failed Memtest very quickly and the set was replaced without question.

 

Edited by John_M
Typo
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Is DOCP an Asus-specific thing? Can you simply set an XMP profile? Is that even an option? I see your RAM is on the QVL for Pinnacle Ridge processors so it should work fine as long as you don't try to push it.
 
I use mostly Gigabyte and ASRock motherboards at the moment but I do have an Asus Prime X470 Pro, which I don't think is hugely different from yours, with a 2700X. In each case I make sure the RAM is qualified when I order it and I simply set the XMP option, without trying to adjust any of the timings. The only problem I've had was with a clearly faulty DIMM, which failed Memtest very quickly and the set was replaced without question.
 
XMP is a Intel thing, DOCP is just another name for XMP that AMD boards use, it's the same thing - just another faster profile you can use.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, binhex said:

XMP is a Intel thing, DOCP is just another name for XMP that AMD boards use, it's the same thing - just another faster profile you can use.

As I said, I had never heard of DOCP. I know eXtreme Memory Profile was developed by Intel as an extension to the JEDEC SPD specification, but all the AMD boards I've ever used call it XMP, not DOCP. Anyway, in an attempt to find out what it stands for (Direct Over Clock Profile - from Asus) I found this: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/what-does-xmp-docp-eocp-mean.2789837/

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As I said, I had never heard of DOCP. I know eXtreme Memory Profile was developed by Intel as an extension to the JEDEC SPD specification, but all the AMD boards I've ever used call it XMP, not DOCP. Anyway, in an attempt to find out what it stands for (Direct Over Clock Profile - from Asus) I found this: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/what-does-xmp-docp-eocp-mean.2789837/

Ah ok so it is Asus specific term. Well whichever name you use it appears to set the correct timings, speed and voltage, but I still have instability. I'm going to play with CR and then if no joy SOC voltage and DRAM voltage.

 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Squid said:

All overclocks will introduce instability into any system

i completely agree squid, i know DOCP has overclock in the acronym, but the manufacturer does state this is a 'tested speed', and in fact when you buy any ram the speed advertised is always the tested speed (as in the values baked in for xmp/docp), i will feel a bit cheated if i cant get it to run at the speed advertised, had i known this up front i would of bought faster ram and ensured the SPD was 2666 Mhz :-), but there ya go hindsight is a wonderful thing, its been a long time since i purchased hardware, i am now more educated :-). just to be clear im not looking to bump up the clock speed past the xmp/docp profile value (in this case 2666 MHz), hope i can get some stability with some tweaking, we shall see!.

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Even with a "tested" speed, it is still an OC (and if not an OC, then out-of-spec timings).  (And as you've noted, even hide the fact that the advertised specs are an OC)

 

Unfortunately, the manufacturer's of everything are touting OC as such a good thing, and are trying to make it easier, while downplaying that there are (and always will be) issues possible.

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3 minutes ago, Squid said:

Even with a "tested" speed, it is still an OC (and if not an OC, then out-of-spec timings).  (And as you've noted, even hide the fact that the advertised specs are an OC)

 

Unfortunately, the manufacturer's of everything are touting OC as such a good thing, and are trying to make it easier, while downplaying that there are (and always will be) issues possible.

tell me about it!, im pretty pissed about it tbh, you live and learn eh!.

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