Pre-purchase questions


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Hello,

 

I'm about to purchase unraid basic for my home server and I have been following some guides that raised a few questions. My hardware for this server is below:

X79 EVGA FTW

i7 4930K
16 GB DDR3 Ram

GTX EVGA 1030
connected via 3gb SATA (2) 3TB HDD (data)

connected via 3gb SATA (1) 4TB HDD (parity)
connected via 6gb SATA (2) SSD 250GB (cache)

1) An LTT video suggest I get a 'LSI 9211-8i RAID Card'. Is this card needed if I'm using my mobo X79 EVGA FTW, and only intend to use the provided SATA slots? Wouldn't the raid controller and SMART reporting from the mobo work as expected? I think this card was only purchased because of the motherboard it was being used in, but I'd like to make sure. Link to the LTT video

2) I currently have my data in one of the 3TB drives mentioned above. What would be the best way for me to do this upgrade without having to buy an external drive to save the data meanwhile? Can I just do the install above minus one disk (the one with the data). Then, re-install the data drive, copy it to unraid, lastly add the final drive to the array. Would that work?

3) My motherboard does not support inboard graphics. Would I still be able to set everything up using the graphics card, then change it so that when I install a VM it can solemnly use the graphics card?

Edited by XiuzSu
Typo
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1 : If you have no expansion plans, hold off on buying a additional SATA card. If you absolutely need one, you can pick one up from Ebay, like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Promise-SATA-300-TX4-PCI-SATA-II-3-0Gb-s-4-Port-PCI-Adapter/323948110832?hash=item4b6ccfe3f0:g:FREAAOSwvdxdEaDa

 

A Raid-controller without the proper configuration will not pass on the SMART-data correctly.

 

2: You can install the empty drives and lastly install the full drive in the server. With the use of the "Unassigned devices"-plugin, you will be able to copy the data from the drive onto the array.

 

3: You need two graphics cards if you want to use virtual machines. Unraid needs either a integrated GPU or two GPUs in total. Personally i would consider a motherboard from a reputable server OEM like Supermicro and just change over the RAM and CPU from your current motherboard. You can easily relist the motherboard on Ebay and sell it.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, SpecFroce said:

2: You can install the empty drives and lastly install the full drive in the server. With the use of the "Unassigned devices"-plugin, you will be able to copy the data from the drive onto the array.

If I understand correctly you don't have empty drives, personally I would buy an empty disk.... BUT if you really don't want to then I think you'll have to:

(anyone feel free to correct anything that sounds off or can be done better)

  • Preclear your existing parity first
  • Then install the percleared disk as disk one
  • Copy your data as described above using unassigned devices 
  • During this time you would be unprotected
  • Then preclear your original data disk after the transfer
  • Install the second precleared disk as parity

Again, I'd just buy another disk, I would not want to go unprotected during a new install using a product that I'm not familiar with. Lots can go wrong, especially with unassigned devices, you can format a disk with one click and I don't think there are any warnings. It's been a while since my initial install, it went fairly well but juggling disks is a hassle better to get another IMO... 

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40 minutes ago, Dissones4U said:

If I understand correctly you don't have empty drives, personally I would buy an empty disk.... BUT if you really don't want to then I think you'll have to:

(anyone feel free to correct anything that sounds off or can be done better)

  • Preclear your existing parity first
  • Then install the percleared disk as disk one
  • Copy your data as described above using unassigned devices 
  • During this time you would be unprotected
  • Then preclear your original data disk after the transfer
  • Install the second precleared disk as parity

Again, I'd just buy another disk, I would not want to go unprotected during a new install using a product that I'm not familiar with. Lots can go wrong, especially with unassigned devices, you can format a disk with one click and I don't think there are any warnings. It's been a while since my initial install, it went fairly well but juggling disks is a hassle better to get another IMO... 

the pre-clear steps are unnecessary unless you do not trust the drives and want to do a stress test on the drive before committing it to the array.

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Thank for the reply. Yes I am aware that doing the copying the way I explain would make a time were my data would only be in one place. I think I may be getting an external hard drive for the peace of mind.

 

For the graphics card, wouldn't I be able to use the graphic card I have for the initial setup of unraid, then somehow remove it from unraid and let the VM's use it? Then, just access unraid via browser on another computer? Quick silly question, can the VM's share the graphics card as well?

If I have no choice but to use 2 graphics card, should the one for unraid just be a old low-end cheap card? I know a micro mobo was suggested, but wouldn't this also be an option so that I don't have to change the mother board?

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12 minutes ago, XiuzSu said:

can the VM's share the graphics card as well?

A card if passed through to the VM is reserved for that VM's exclusive use.  (Simplified explanation)

 

13 minutes ago, XiuzSu said:

wouldn't I be able to use the graphic card I have for the initial setup of unraid,

Unless there's a problem for some reason, you would be able to use the browser to do the initial setup.

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2 minutes ago, Squid said:

A card if passed through to the VM is reserved for that VM's exclusive use.  (Simplified explanation)

 

Unless there's a problem for some reason, you would be able to use the browser to do the initial setup.

Thanks Squid!

A follow up on that, I'm just still a little confuse. Basically, what I'm asking is if I can use 1 graphics card to setup everything, then pass it through to a VM once the unraid is setup?

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1 hour ago, itimpi said:

the pre-clear steps are unnecessary unless you do not trust the drives and want to do a stress test on the drive before committing it to the array.

Thank you for the clarification itimpi, preclear is just habit for me. I think I read somewhere that it saves array downtime but since this is a new array, yeah I wasn't thinking...

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2 minutes ago, Dissones4U said:

hat it saves array downtime

It USED to save downtime when adding a new data drive to a parity protected array as Unraid would take the array offline if it had to Clear a drive to maintain parity.   However in Unraid 6 when a clear is needed the array is available for use - it is just the new data drive is not available until a clear completes.

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Huh, I started out with v6.3.2 and have had this misconception the entire time! So preclear is basically stress test only... I still like to stress test new disks and then I leave them sit and steep as unassigned devices for about a week or so, it may have no real benefit but somehow it gives me peace of mind so that's what I do.

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5 minutes ago, Dissones4U said:

Huh, I started out with v6.3.2 and have had this misconception the entire time! So preclear is basically stress test only... I still like to stress test new disks and then I leave them sit and steep as unassigned devices for about a week or so, it may have no real benefit but somehow it gives me peace of mind so that's what I do.

That is fair enough.

 

there is also a benefit to having a drive pre-cleared if you know you are going to add it as new data drive in that when you add it to the array it immediately available for use without you having to wait for a clear to take place.   You can schedule the pre-clear to happen in advance of the add step at a convenient time which may be more efficient use of your time.

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On 10/20/2019 at 10:40 PM, XiuzSu said:

Thank you guys for answering my questions, I will go ahead and purchased it once the system is put together!

Don't purchase it yet. Start with trial, make sure things work properly THEN purchase.

With PCIe pass-through (required for your number (3) question), there can never be a 100% guarantee that it would work unless someone has it working with the exact same config as yours (exact to the brand and model).

 

Some tips to make your life easier:

  • Watch SpaceInvaderOne guides on Youtube. They are more helpful than LTT proof-of-concept.
  • Boot Unraid in legacy mode - when building your USB stick, disable UEFI to ensure that if it boots, it boots in legacy mode. This is particularly relevant since you are planning to pass through your primary GPU to a VM (i.e. avoiding the infamous Nvidia driver error 43)

  • If you have not bought the CPU + mobo yet, perhaps opt for something that has integrated GPU + a mobo that allow you to use the integrated GPU as primary (a browse of the owner's manual pdf should tell you if it's possible via BIOS settings).

    • Booting Unraid with integrated GPU enhances your chance of passing through a dedicated GPU to a VM (i.e. avoiding the infamous Nvidia driver error 43)

  • You can also dump your own vbios and use it (watch SpaceInvaderOne guides for details). This is easier to do if your config has integrated GPU that Unraid can boot with (see my point above). Again, this is to avoid the infamous Nvidia driver error 43.

 

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Yes! I've been almost benching the videos of SpaceInvaderOne, I'm surprise he isn't hired/sponsored here honestly. I also found some guides from here to be kinda out of dated, but I love the community support and assistance. I already own the system above so I'm kinda stuck with it, and yes I've actually watched the videos you referred me to. Since its a chance, I just ordered a EVGA GT 710 2GB (just in case it doesn't work with one card) to place it in the first slot for unraid (only cost me 25$ used on ebay). Then use the EVGA 1030 on the other x16 slot. I'm just been reading and learning everything about unraid before starting. I should have some free time to start tonight.

(Edit) I was able to install it and have HVM and IOMMU enabled! I now need to upgrade the CPU with the i7-4930K I purchased. Quick question, I want to run one main VM on unraid (which will be mostly on 24/7), and use as much power as possible without really starving unraid which would be like, plex, data, backup.

1. Should I have to leave like 4GB of ram, and 2 cores unused for unraid?
2. What are your suggestions?
3. What would happen if I use all available resources for a VM, does unraid/app/dockers still uses whatever it needs run well?

image.thumb.png.6ebf38c98519983ffe535fe0aa94b40b.png

Edited by XiuzSu
Update regarding the setup
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/23/2019 at 5:00 PM, testdasi said:

Don't purchase it yet. Start with trial, make sure things work properly THEN purchase.

With PCIe pass-through (required for your number (3) question), there can never be a 100% guarantee that it would work unless someone has it working with the exact same config as yours (exact to the brand and model).

 

Some tips to make your life easier:

  • Watch SpaceInvaderOne guides on Youtube. They are more helpful than LTT proof-of-concept.
  • Boot Unraid in legacy mode - when building your USB stick, disable UEFI to ensure that if it boots, it boots in legacy mode. This is particularly relevant since you are planning to pass through your primary GPU to a VM (i.e. avoiding the infamous Nvidia driver error 43

 

His current motherboard will handle UEFI boot fine. He should remove the dash from the EFI folder and take it for a spin. Use UEFI wherever possible. Unraid boots flawlessly with UEFI.

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12 hours ago, SpecFroce said:

His current motherboard will handle UEFI boot fine. He should remove the dash from the EFI folder and take it for a spin. Use UEFI wherever possible. Unraid boots flawlessly with UEFI.

I think you completely missed the latter part of my paragraph. I recommended booting in Legacy mode NOT because Unraid can or cannot boot flawlessly in UEFI with his mother motherboard.

Rather, booting Unraid in UEFI has been known in some cases to cause some Nvidia cards in the primary slot to detect that it has been passed through to a VM and thus leads to the dreaded error 43.

There are certainly benefits of booting in UEFI; however, for the vast majority of Unraid users, those benefits vary from "can't tell the diff" to "negligible". Yet, the one error code 43, if it happens, would cause plenty of grief - hence my recommendation.

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