Ryzen or Xeon Build? At A Crossroads


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The time has finally come! My wife and I are less than a week away from paying off our student loans! That means I can finally do my first custom UnRAID build (and she can get the iPhone and iWatch she’s been pining after). This has been a dream of mine for the past 2 years and I can’t believe the time has finally come!

 

Up until now, I’ve been using a HP Z220 CMT with an i7-3770 and 16GB of non-ECC ram. I added two hard drive cages to the 5.25” bays, which has allowed me to have 6 x 3.5” hard drives and 2 x 2.5” drives in the case. Everything has been working well, and the iGPU, although very old, has kept power costs low when transcoding even if the quality leaves a lot to be desired. I’ve also maxed out my hard drive bays and have only 400MB left on a 46TB system. A new build with a bigger case can’t come fast enough.

 

Since I just moved to a new city and have more people to now add to my Plex server, I thought it would be a good time to upgrade the whole setup to make it last for the next 5-6 years and just focus on hard drive expansion with any extra money I save along the way. I don’t have fiber at the moment (school quality won out over fiber), but once we decide to build a house in about 2 years, it’ll be in a part of the city that has symmetrical fiber. Right now, I’m stuck with 1Gbps upload and 50Mbps download, so I can only do about 8-10 720p 4Mbps transcodes (mostly from x264-DTS 8GB-20GB 1080p files). With symmetrical fiber I hope to do around 15-20 1080p 8Mbps transcodes at once, and I want my build to be able to handle that (or be easily upgradeable) when that time comes.

 

Here’s what I KNOW that I will purchase or have already purchased:

Case: CSE-836BE16-920B (ALREADY PURCHASED)

Front Fans: 3 x Supermicro FAN-0074L4

Rear Fans: 2 x Supermicro FAN-0104L4

Heatsink: Noctua NH-D9L

RAM: 2 x 16GB Kingston 2666Mhz DDR4 ECC UDIMM’s KSM26ED8/16ME

HBA Card: LSI 9211-8i (ALREADY PURCHASED)

 

I’ve narrowed everything down to 3 possible choices (yes, they are all way overkill for what I want to do). I’m leaning heavily to Build #1 but I still need some help in deciding.

 

Build #1

CPU: Intel Xeon E-2288G

Motherboard: Supermicro X11SCH-F

GPU: NONE

 

Build #2

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600

Heatsink Accessory: Noctua AM4 mounting bracket (ALREADY PURCHASED)

Motherboard: ASRock Rack X470D4U

GPU: Nvidia P2000 (ALREADY PURCHASED)

 

Build #3

CPU: Intel Xeon E-2136/E-2236

Motherboard: Supermicro X11SCH-F

GPU: Nvidia P2000 (ALREADY PURCHASED)

 

WANTS

15-20 1080p 8Mbps transcodes at once (mostly from x264-DTS 8GB-20GB 1080p files)

IPMI -> I’ll be traveling quite a bit and want to be able to adjust the server/BIOS while I’m away…it’s not critical but it’s a very nice feature to have if you can’t be sitting around the actual server

Stability -> Since I will be traveling quite often, I want this server to handle UnRAID updates easily and have no chronic issues…there are quite a bit of young kids relying on this server staying up constantly so they can watch their shows

Upgrade Path -> This isn’t a big want but it would be nice if I could add/switch out a GPU or CPU in the future if/when 4K transcoding w/ HDR intact really becomes a thing for Plex

Energy Efficiency -> I’m not expecting single digit wattage with any of these builds, and energy costs around here are only about $0.12 kWh, but I would like to have a lower wattage at idle so it’s not eating up a lot of power sitting there not doing anything

 

Build #1 Analysis

 

Pros:

- Very powerful CPU with a Passmark around 20,000

- iGPU is the newest version available and will allow me to do ~15 1080p transcodes while keeping power usage low so the Nvidia P2000 isn’t needed and can be resold for around $300 (that’ll get me about 2 more 10TB drives)

- The X11SCH-F, while it doesn’t have a lot of PCIe slots, it does have a dedicated IPMI LAN port and 6 x 4-pin fan ports (the X11SCA-F has neither)

- The X11SCH-F will match nicely with my Supermicro chassis so all the sensors should be easily seen in the IPMI

- Intel has historically been more stable than AMD in UnRAID and 14nm is a very established platform

- Intel Xeon tends to have a very good resell value, especially if it’s one of the CPU’s at the top for a particular socket

 

Cons:

- It’s definitely the most expensive option

- The CPU isn’t upgradeable

- I can add a GPU in the future if I need it, but that would take up the remaining PCIe slot and it would really negate the iGPU for me

- Intel has shown that security has not been their top priority for a while and this chip will probably see incremental decreases in performance as more security patches are rolled out

 

Build #2 Analysis

 

Pros:

- Very powerful CPU with a Passmark around 20,000 AND at a very cheap price (<$200)

- Overall this is the cheapest option of the three builds and I could use the extra money for more hard drives

- The Nvidia P2000 should serve me well for transcoding and it has decent resell value in case I need to upgrade to a newer/better model in the future

- The X470D4U has more PCIe slots than the Supermicro Intel options and is also cheaper

- This build is very upgradeable in terms of CPU (can go up to 16 cores!) and GPU

 

Cons:

- Stability (at the moment at least) leaves a lot to be desired…between both UnRAID and the ASRock BIOS/BMC it’s just not 100% trustworthy right now…I expect it to be solid in the future with more updates though…I was really hoping 6.9.0 would have dropped by now and give me more of what’s in-store

- The ASRock X470DU won’t match up 100% with my Supermicro chassis and I would lose out on the ability to monitor my redundant PSU’s

- It looks like Ryzen is more efficient at higher workloads than Intel but it will definitely use up more electricity at idle…granted it’s probably only 10-20 watts but that is still significant extrapolated over several years

 

Build #3 Analysis

 

Pros:

- The E-2136 and E-2236 are relatively cheap and I even found a used E-2136 for $200

- The Nvidia P2000 should serve me well for transcoding and it has decent resell value in case I need to upgrade to a newer/better model in the future

- The X11SCH-F, while it doesn’t have a lot of PCIe slots, it does have a dedicated IPMI LAN port and 6 x 4-pin fan ports (the X11SCA-F has neither)

- The X11SCH-F will match nicely with my Supermicro chassis so all the sensors should be easily seen in the IPMI

- Intel has historically been more stable than AMD in UnRAID and 14nm is a very established platform

- Intel Xeon tends to have a very good resell value, especially if it’s one of the CPU’s at the top for a particular socket

 

Cons:

- It has by far the lowest Passmark score of the three options and upgrading to an E-2278G or E-2288G in the future could be both costly and difficult because of their rarity

- All the PCIe slots will be used up right away using a P2000 and 9211-8i

- Intel has shown that security has not been their top priority for a while and this chip will probably see incremental decreases in performance as more security patches are rolled out

 

Overall, I think I’ll be truly fine with any of the three option but if anyone has any suggestion on which one I should choose, I’m all ears. I’ve got a case of Paralysis by Analysis and any recommendations might help me figure out which one to go with. Thoughts?

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I'll answer here with some general observations.  You are very well acquainted with my E-2288G journey and test results so I certainly don't need to rehash any of that here. 😁

 

I strongly considered going with a Ryzen based system for this upgrade.  In the end, I stuck with Intel Xeon even though it is more expensive and a possible dead end if Intel ever figures out their 10nm process. Ultimately, I did not go the Ryzen route this time even though I think my next upgrade a few years from now may take me down that path.  There is no doubt that the innovation and momentum titles reside with AMD right now.  Here are my reasons for not going with Ryzen on this upgrade:

  1. iGPU with Intel is a better supported option than the very limited iGPU options with Ryzen.  Some claim to have Ryzen iGPUs working with Plex, etc., but I know the Intel iGPU works.
  2. IPMI - this was not a make or break thing, but, if possible I wanted a board that supported this.  There are many options on the Intel side and only one (the ASRock X470D4U) for Ryzen (I don't need Threadripper) and that board only has 2 USB ports and some BIOS issues that look like they are slowly being resolved.
  3. If you want hardware transcoding, you need a separate GPU with Ryzen.  That's why you have a P2000.  This also currently means reliance on a special unRAID build.  Excellent though it may be, its another thing to manage and be aware of when upgrading and another potential (slight though it may be) source of problems.
  4. Current Ryzen CPUs/MBs seem to have most of the early kinks worked out and are working fabulously for many unRAID users; however, there are still more 'gotchas' on this platform and you have to be prepared to do some troubleshooting.  This alone would not be enough to dissuade me from a Ryzen build, but, it is a potential consideration and many could argue this is a non-factor based on their experience.

With respect to your point about Intel security, I don't think my server is going to be a target of any of these attacks.  If you are concerned about the potential performance impacts of the mitigation fixes, you can turn them off with a plugin as I have done.

 

As you said, all the listed options have their pros and cons and, in the end, any of them could work for you.  It looks like you have thought it out well.

 

I really wanted to hate Intel and love AMD/Ryzen, but, because of what I valued most, I had to grudgingly accept that the Xeon E-2288G option best met my current and short-term future needs.  Others will look at the same choices and come up with a completely different conclusion because the reasons I listed above are not considerations that matter to them.

 

Let what you value most in your unRAID experience guide you.

Edited by Hoopster
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13 hours ago, ramblinreck47 said:

...

Energy Efficiency -> I’m not expecting single digit wattage with any of these builds, and energy costs around here are only about $0.12 kWh, but I would like to have a lower wattage at idle so it’s not eating up a lot of power sitting there not doing anything

...

- It looks like Ryzen is more efficient at higher workloads than Intel but it will definitely use up more electricity at idle…granted it’s probably only 10-20 watts but that is still significant extrapolated over several years

...

Your math is wonky or your concept of significant is wonky.

Even assuming worst case of 20 W = 0.02 kW = 0.02 kWh/hr = 0.48 kWh/day = 175.2 kWh / year = $21.02 / year

Given your current server is at worst 8-year-old, you need at least 3 upgrade cycles to break-even (based on the CPU prices I can google).

 

Having said that, if enterprise-level stability is a paramount concern to you then of course get the Xeon build.

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Personally, go for a Ryzen build (ASRock boards are excellent).  I wouldn't touch Xeon, even if they are decent performers initially, it will drop as more and more security vulnerabilities are found.  My Supermicro system with a Xeon was great initially, and as the security patches came out, performance noticeably plummeted

Just to add, no performance issues at all on my Ryzen build

 

Also, i would avoid Samsung SSDs in unRAID as there is an issue with them on the BTRFS filesystem which LT appear to be in no hurry to resolve (unless you are using a single drive with no plan to go cache pool, and are happy to format as XFS)

 

Well done on paying off your loans too, you should both be very proud!

 

Edited by sdamaged
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42 minutes ago, sdamaged said:

Also, i would avoid Samsung SSDs in unRAID as there is an issue with them on the BTRFS filesystem which LT appear to be in no hurry to resolve (unless you are using a single drive with no plan to go cache pool, and are happy to format as XFS)

I am running 860 Evo and 850 Evo with BTRFS and no issue.

Dropped an 80GB archive on it and... still no issue.

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19 minutes ago, sdamaged said:

Are you aware what the issues are though, so you know what to look for?

There are 2 things that were reported:

  • High IOWait and/or server lockup when copying large files to BTRFS-formatted (mostly) Samsung SSD
  • Inconsistent / low write speed when copying large files to BTRFS-formatted (mostly) Samsung SSD

I have never had any of those issues and I have run 970 Evo, 860 Evo, 850 Evo and SM951 as (btrfs) cache at one point or another.

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On 3/4/2020 at 5:24 PM, Hoopster said:

With respect to your point about Intel security, I don't think my server is going to be a target of any of these attacks.  If you are concerned about the potential performance impacts of the mitigation fixes, you can turn them off with a plugin as I have done.

@Hoopster what plugin did you use for this?

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On 3/4/2020 at 4:24 PM, Hoopster said:

I really wanted to hate Intel and love AMD/Ryzen, but, because of what I valued most, I had to grudgingly accept that the Xeon E-2288G option best met my current and short-term future needs.  Others will look at the same choices and come up with a completely different conclusion because the reasons I listed above are not considerations that matter to them.

 

Let what you value most in your unRAID experience guide you.

I appreciate the reply. I've thought about all the things you listed, and I made the decision to go with Intel. I really really wanted AMD to be every bit as awesome as I wished it could be, but alas, it's just not 100% there yet for UnRAID and the X470D4U. I know it'll probably all that and a bag of chips given more time but I just don't have the time to deal with all kinds of growing pains as I wrangle kids, work, and travel. 

 

I'm still processing what I want to do with the Nvidia P2000 that I have. I want to pick a CPU in the next couple of days since I just bought the last remaining X11SCH-F In-Stock on Amazon and want to maximize my time using it before the 30-day return window closes. I saw a used E-2136 on eBay for $200 but it went before I could get it. The same seller has had multiple of them for the same price pretty recently so there's a small chance more could be coming. Although it doesn't have all the processing power I would like, it would be a no-brainer at that price.

 

The E-2288G stock on Provantage up and vanished, which is crazy since they had nearly 30 In-Stock since I last looked. The E-2278G (fingers crossed it doesn't run out in the next couple of days) would be a great choice and might be what I go with. I could test out the iGPU enough to see if it's going to meet my needs for 15+ transcodes or just keep the P2000 and let the iGPU be used for something else like Handbrake or something else. It definitely gives me some flexibility and should be a good enough processor to last me the next 4-5 years.

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On 3/5/2020 at 6:07 AM, sdamaged said:

Also, i would avoid Samsung SSDs in unRAID as there is an issue with them on the BTRFS filesystem which LT appear to be in no hurry to resolve (unless you are using a single drive with no plan to go cache pool, and are happy to format as XFS)

I've had a 500GB Samsung 860 EVO paired with my 500GB Crucial MX500 since day one of UnRAID (going back 2 years) and have never had any issues with it. I don't know if I'm lucky or there's something else at play.

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On 3/5/2020 at 4:51 AM, testdasi said:

Your math is wonky or your concept of significant is wonky.

Even assuming worst case of 20 W = 0.02 kW = 0.02 kWh/hr = 0.48 kWh/day = 175.2 kWh / year = $21.02 / year

Given your current server is at worst 8-year-old, you need at least 3 upgrade cycles to break-even (based on the CPU prices I can google).

 

Having said that, if enterprise-level stability is a paramount concern to you then of course get the Xeon build.

Fair enough. It was more of a pet peeve than really a want; that's why I listed at the bottom of the stack. At the end of the day, it's not going to be a deciding factor.

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