Freenas change over.

[MMChris]

Hello, im new to unraid.

So i have a freenas build at the moment but im wanting to change to UnRaid. 

The reason i want to change is freenas is difficult to use (for me) & im soon to run out of space. 

My Current rig is 

3 x 3TB HDD WD RED (raid 0 backed up monthly)  , AsRock c2750d4i , 16GB DDR3 ECC Ram , 200/300w 1/2U PSU ( cant remember) , Fractal 305 node. 

 

Is the Intel C2750 enough for Unraid with plex in a docker, maybe a qbitorent docker?

I mostly play direct but occasionally transcode on phone or if upload is limited

( it has transcoded 4k but did struggle with some of them)  

 

I am wanting to upgrade with 3 x 4TB HDD's, new case with hotswap , SSD's for Cache. dont want to upgrade mobo/cpu but will if need to just need to make a plan and budget. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to help. 

[testdasi]

Generally speaking, things that you can do (without struggling) with FreeNAS, it's safe to assume it would work with Unraid.

 

The C2750 should have no problem with Plex (direct play) + a few other dockers.

Transcoding 1080p should be fine but probably not 4k.

[MMChris]

23 minutes ago, testdasi said:

Generally speaking, things that you can do (without struggling) with FreeNAS, it's safe to assume it would work with Unraid.

 

The C2750 should have no problem with Plex (direct play) + a few other dockers.

Transcoding 1080p should be fine but probably not 4k.

Many thanks, 

When i do this and upgrade my HDD's to 3 x 3TB & 3 x 4TB if i use two disks for parity i assume it will use 2 x 4TB for this? 

[testdasi]

18 minutes ago, MMChris said:

Many thanks, 

When i do this and upgrade my HDD's to 3 x 3TB & 3 x 4TB if i use two disks for parity i assume it will use 2 x 4TB for this? 

Yes

2 things to note:

• Dual parity would be an overkill for a 6-drive array (assuming you stress test (e.g. run a preclear cycle) each drive before adding to the array). If you are really risk-averse then fair enough but you have to be super unlucky to not be fine with single parity in a 6-drive array.
• In case there's any misunderstanding, you can't migrate the 3x 3TB FreeNAS RAID-0 from your current rig to Unraid directly. You have to get data out of that first e.g. into some other drives. Unraid will have to format the 3x 3TB drive before they can be used in the array.

[MMChris]

1 minute ago, testdasi said:

Yes

2 things to note:

• Dual parity would be an overkill for a 6-drive array (assuming you stress test (e.g. run a preclear cycle) each drive before adding to the array). If you are really risk-averse then fair enough but you have to be super unlucky to not be fine with single parity in a 6-drive array.
• In case there's any misunderstanding, you can't migrate the 3x 3TB FreeNAS RAID-0 from your current rig to Unraid directly. You have to get data out of that first e.g. into some other drives. Unraid will have to format the 3x 3TB drive before they can be used in the array.

Thanks, i understand i have to get the data off, i have a 6TB external back up which is almost full which is why i'm making the change. 

I do intend on adding more HDD's as and when needed, could i set up dual parity later on or does it need to be done at the start of the array? 

also with the cache drive (ssd) can i start with one then add a second in raid 1 later on? 

 

Again many thanks with my newbie questions. 

[testdasi]

3 minutes ago, MMChris said:

Thanks, i understand i have to get the data off, i have a 6TB external back up which is almost full which is why i'm making the change. 

I do intend on adding more HDD's as and when needed, could i set up dual parity later on or does it need to be done at the start of the array? 

also with the cache drive (ssd) can i start with one then add a second in raid 1 later on? 

 

Again many thanks with my newbie questions. 

You can add more parity later when you need it.

However, considering your array consists of 3-4TB drives, you should first look to replace them with high capacity drives (e.g. 8TB+) instead of adding more low capacity drives + more parity.

HDD fails in statistical patterns (after the "infant mortality" have been weeded out by stress testing (e.g. run a preclear cycle *hint* *hint*) each drive before adding to the array) so the more drives you have, the more likely you will have a failed drive.

 

With regards to the cache pool, you can add more drives to the cache pool later as long as it is btrfs format.

If your format your cache as xfs, it can only be used in a single-drive cache pool. If you increase the number of drives to >1 (even if the extra slot is not assigned), it will ask you to format the pool as btrfs if it isn't btrfs.

 

My personal recommendation is that you should only use multi-drive cache pool if you want to run RAID-1 (i.e. mirror protection). Otherwise, you almost always have a better arrangement mounting the extra drives as unassigned device.

For instance, instead of increasing the size of the cache pool by adding more drive, you can mount the additional SSD as unassigned and separate read-heavy and write-heavy data. That will improve the lifespan of both SSDs by reducing wear leveling and write magnification.

 

Tip on getting SSD: avoid QLC and DRAM-less. They are cheap but in some cases can be even worse than a HDD.

[MMChris]

41 minutes ago, testdasi said:

You can add more parity later when you need it.

However, considering your array consists of 3-4TB drives, you should first look to replace them with high capacity drives (e.g. 8TB+) instead of adding more low capacity drives + more parity.

HDD fails in statistical patterns (after the "infant mortality" have been weeded out by stress testing (e.g. run a preclear cycle *hint* *hint*) each drive before adding to the array) so the more drives you have, the more likely you will have a failed drive.

 

With regards to the cache pool, you can add more drives to the cache pool later as long as it is btrfs format.

If your format your cache as xfs, it can only be used in a single-drive cache pool. If you increase the number of drives to >1 (even if the extra slot is not assigned), it will ask you to format the pool as btrfs if it isn't btrfs.

 

My personal recommendation is that you should only use multi-drive cache pool if you want to run RAID-1 (i.e. mirror protection). Otherwise, you almost always have a better arrangement mounting the extra drives as unassigned device.

For instance, instead of increasing the size of the cache pool by adding more drive, you can mount the additional SSD as unassigned and separate read-heavy and write-heavy data. That will improve the lifespan of both SSDs by reducing wear leveling and write magnification.

 

Tip on getting SSD: avoid QLC and DRAM-less. They are cheap but in some cases can be even worse than a HDD.

Thanks, ok so il start with one parity drive then add if/when needed.

4TB are only £100 where as 8TB are £250 12TB is £380 but parity is needed. i understand less HDD's means less failures. i do plan on getting a 16 bay case though. 

i will also get a Samsung evo 860 1TB ssd ( formatted btrfs) then get another one later to run as mirror raid 1 later. i have to upgrade case etc first. 

 

i think il back up over the week, then on the weekend get the ssd and 1 hdd and start trying it out before i fork out more for a proper  system. 

 

Thanks for the tips they have been extremely useful. 

[jademonkee]

On 3/30/2020 at 7:33 PM, MMChris said:

i will also get a Samsung evo 860 1TB ssd ( formatted btrfs) then get another one later to run as mirror raid 1 later. i have to upgrade case etc first. 

Just my 2p, but unless you're running a couple VMs or a fiend for the downloadin', a 1TB cache is total overkill. I have 2x 250GB in a btrfs pool, but they sit at about 50GB usage, and only get higher than that when files get written to the array, which is seldom more than ~40GB in a day (I run the mover daily, so by morning it's back down to 50GB usage again). I think in the few years I've had my server I've only written close to capacity (200GB) in a day twice. And even then, I just paused writing to the server/cache, ran the mover, and started writing again once it had completed (which took a while, but was no real drama).

So, IMO (YMMV), you'd be better off going for 250GB (or less) cache, and putting the money saved towards either an 'EVO PRO' (better warranty, better components), a second cache disk, or a bigger parity.

But, like I said, YMMV - if you're a heavy app or VM user, you may need the extra space on the cache - although for VM images, I hear that there are advantages to storing them on a SSD outside the array (via the unassigned devices plugin), anyway, so 2x 512, or 3x 250 (2x cache one unassigned) may be a better use of your ££ anyhow.

[MMChris]

12 minutes ago, jademonkee said:

Just my 2p, but unless you're running a couple VMs or a fiend for the downloadin', a 1TB cache is total overkill. I have 2x 250GB in a btrfs pool, but they sit at about 50GB usage, and only get higher than that when files get written to the array, which is seldom more than ~40GB in a day (I run the mover daily, so by morning it's back down to 50GB usage again). I think in the few years I've had my server I've only written close to capacity (200GB) in a day twice. And even then, I just paused writing to the server/cache, ran the mover, and started writing again once it had completed (which took a while, but was no real drama).

So, IMO (YMMV), you'd be better off going for 250GB (or less) cache, and putting the money saved towards either an 'EVO PRO' (better warranty, better components), a second cache disk, or a bigger parity.

But, like I said, YMMV - if you're a heavy app or VM user, you may need the extra space on the cache - although for VM images, I hear that there are advantages to storing them on a SSD outside the array (via the unassigned devices plugin), anyway, so 2x 512, or 3x 250 (2x cache one unassigned) may be a better use of your ££ anyhow.

Thanks, i was thinking about future proofing, but i also don't know much when it comes to unraid and how it works. 
I've bought the 1TB SSD now but might swap it out for a 250GB that's in my PC and just go with 2 x 250GB SSD's to start.

Again thanks any tips are super useful.

 

Just wondering is there any quick way to transfer data to the nas by directly connecting an external/internal drive? ( instead of being limited to 1Gbps eth) ?

 

[jademonkee]

12 hours ago, MMChris said:

Just wondering is there any quick way to transfer data to the nas by directly connecting an external/internal drive? ( instead of being limited to 1Gbps eth) ?

The 'Unassigned Devices' plugin allows you to access usb drives (or even disks connected internally that aren't part of the array - although your FreeNAS disks won't be able to be read by Unraid). You can then use Midnight Commander (old skool GUI/TUI that's accessible from the terminal) or Krusader (a full GUI file manager that runs via a Docker).

Space Invader One has a video on copying files via Krusader:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0XCFPAsWZE&list=PL6MCtOroZNDCXhQQWrVjbPWO-45qV7SOF&index=6

(the rest of the videos in that playlist/on his channel are really, really helpful for people starting out with Unraid, so go check them out if you haven't already).

I prefer midnight commander coz I'm a sucker for terminals/command lines, so here's some info on that: https://www.linode.com/docs/tools-reference/tools/how-to-install-midnight-commander/

(note that you don't need to follow the installation part, as it's already installed, and you can only run as root on unraid, so ignore that warning - well, don't ignore it, as you can definitely do some real damage if you edit the wrong file as root.)

 

I would recommend setting up your final shares before copying files over to the array, then you can navigate to 

/mnt/user/

to see your shares there (Anything under /mnt/ is your array - don't touch anything outside of that directory).

Your unassigned disks (the USB or internal drives that currently hold your data) will be mounted under /mnt/disks/

NOTE: I don't recommend copying to /mnt/disk1/ (or disk2,3 etc) as your shares should be set up in a way that your data will go to the right disk anyhow. The different dirs in /mnt/ are different 'views' of your array - for your needs, stick to /mnt/user/ but it's worth learning what the other dirs represent.

I also don't recommend using your main PC to copy via its file manager. It's often slower (at least it feels that way), and you'll have to leave your machine running while it copies. Doing it via midnight commander on a monitor hooked up to the server means it'll just choof along in the background and you can check on it when needed (accessing it via ssh means you'll need to leave your PC on while it copies, so is less good, but will still be faster (I think) than copying via SMB).

 

Finally, it usually makes sense (after preclearing all your disks as a stress test) to setup your array WITHOUT PARITY so that your initial copy can run faster. Once you've filled your array with all your existing data, you then add and build parity.

This is another reason why it's highly recommended to preclear (I do 3 preclears per disk) new hard drives to weed out dodgy disks - a failure during this initial copy will (at the very least) ruin your day!

The preclear process, especially on larger disks, will take days - so plan your time appropriately.

Any other questions, lemme know.

And enjoy Unraid!

Edited April 2, 2020 by jademonkee

[testdasi]

@MMChris: re-read my post on Monday about separating write heavy and read heavy data with a single-drive cache + unassigned SSD. It is particularly useful if you are going to use it for torrent / any other write-heavy activities.

 

And then read up the below about the still-ongoing performance issue with btrfs multi-drive cache pool. Then ask yourself how important mirror protection is (as opposed to having a backup instead).

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by testdasi

[jademonkee]

24 minutes ago, testdasi said:

And then read up the below about the still-ongoing performance issue with btrfs multi-drive cache pool. Then ask yourself how important mirror protection is (as opposed to having a backup instead).

 

Weird. I've never experienced this on my machine.

[itimpi]

2 hours ago, jademonkee said:

Weird. I've never experienced this on my machine.

Many of those reporting this also seem to be using encryption together with btrfs so I wonder if it is the combination that matters?

[tjb_altf4]

41 minutes ago, itimpi said:

Many of those reporting this also seem to be using encryption together with btrfs so I wonder if it is the combination that matters?

I'm just about to hit 2 years problem free with a raid0 btrfs pool, no encryption though.

 

It's just a heavy IO problem IMHO, I moved all my torrents to a separate unassigned disk and I've never had an issue on this rig or my previous one, despite being a connoisseur of many high quality linux isos.

[MMChris]

10 hours ago, jademonkee said:

The 'Unassigned Devices' plugin allows you to access usb drives.

(the rest of the videos in that playlist/on his channel are really, really helpful for people starting out with Unraid, so go check them out if you haven't already).

And enjoy Unraid!

 

9 hours ago, testdasi said:

@MMChris: re-read my post on Monday about separating write heavy and read heavy data with a single-drive cache + unassigned SSD. It is particularly useful if you are going to use it for torrent / any other write-heavy activities.

 

Thanks, for the advice.

I am currently backing up all my data and i will be starting my Unraid server tomorrow. 

I'm probably going to be messing around with it over the weekend before committing all my data and having it running properly. 

I still have some upgrades to my hardware to make but i think doing it over a month will help me see where to spend the money.

I'm sure i'll be updating this with more questions

 But having some where to go for help makes it a lot less daunting thanks very much. 

 

 

[MMChris]

So i started my Unraid server today.

First i changed out my 500gb & 250gb SSD's for 1TB in my main pc. ( also somehow broke cmos which meant it didn't post very annoying, fixed now)

 

Installation was very easy and it picked up all my hardware, i also named my server Soos. 

 

My array consists of

4TB parity

3 x 3TB drives (wd red from freenas build about 6/7 years old) as array.

500GB SSD samsung 860 evo as the Cache  ( chose this one as its newer and crystalinfo said it had way less writes on it) 

250GB SSD samsung 840 evo as unassigned.

 

Its currently building parity it says it will take 7hrs to do.

 

Everything is working from what i can tell but it has given me some errors 

 

First issue is one of the 3TB disks has errors. 509 of them in the main tab.

S.M.A.R.T has highlighted this as the issue :   197   Current pending sector   0x0032  200  200 000   Old age  Always   Never  9

also the array says its used 20gb but i'm yet to put anything on it. is that normal? 

 

Second issue is the ssd cache drive also has errors. 0 errors on main tab.

S.M.A.R.T has highlighted this as the issue :   199  CRC error count  0x003e  099  099  000  Old age  Always   Never  1

it also says the cache is using 22.6GB but again i haven't transferred anything ( or set up shares yet ) is this normal? 

 

 

Thanks for any help. 

 

Also should i keep posting here or start posting in general support? 

(edit) i posted it there now as it feels more appropriate. 

 

 

 

 

 

   

Edited April 3, 2020 by MMChris