Build Help | Possibly with Ryzen 3300x

[jugaadkabaap]

Hi, 

I am new to UnRaid and rusty wrt hardware - the last time i built a box was 10-12 yrs back. I would like to get some feedback on the below prospective build. 

 

Context : 

I always wanted to build a home server and the initial thought was to pick up an old machine and use it as one. But I have some Dell credits to burn (thanks to American express) so i thought, it makes much more sense to buy parts and build a new one. I am sourcing majority of the parts from Dell USA to offset my out of pocket cost. This includes - HDD, SSD, GPU (if required), RAM, Keyboard, Mice etc. 

Intended Use: 

Primarily a Home server which can act as a media box, run a couple of docker containers and a Windows VM (i use a mac now, so would like to have a windows machine around for one off needs), NAS (with backup to a Backblaze or similar), act as a webserver etc. Sporadic gaming - not big on games but would like it to support it if i ever fancy playing some. 

 

• Budget - 400C$ excluding Dell offsetted components. This will involve a Processor, Motherboard, PSU, Cooling fan, Case etc. 
• How many drives - Upto 8 drives should be good
• Expandability - Yes, i would like to future proof it at-least for 5 yrs.
• Spare parts laying around - None. 
• Form Factor - Ideally ITX but if it can't be done then a relatively small form factor which is visually decent (not RGB aka gaming appealing but kinda pleasing on the eyes than a bulk and junky box)

 

Proposed Build Idea - (even if links provided are not dell - they will be sourced from dell after price matching)

Processor : Ryzen 3300x (this is what i have in mind)

Motherboard : A B550 Motherboard - unsure which to pick

RAM - Corsair 32 GB (2* 16) non ECC 3200 Mhz  (procured)

SSD (Cache) - Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB (procured)

GPU - Unsure, need recommendations (if i don't need it, i might skip it but i don't know if its possible)

PSU - Unsure, need recommendations 
HDD - Seagate Ironwolf 4TB Drives SATA 6 * 2 (Procured)
Cooling - Unsure, need recommendations 
Case - Enthoo Pro ATX

Keyboard and Mice - MX master 3 and a mechanical keyboard or MX Keys. 

Any other parts - I dunno, please let me know. 


Above is my rough outline - 3300X seems to be bang for buck and can last a long time for my needs. I understand that the wattage of the above build may be high for a 24/7 server - so i am open to tweaking it provided it fits my primary requirements of future proofing. The electricity costs are reasonable at my part of the world so few watts extra wont break the bank but i would like to optimize it if i can. 

Look forward to your suggestions / comments. 

Best,

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by jugaadkabaap
Updated with Case

[Pducharme]

Why a B550 board if you not have any PCIe Gen4 NVMe drive? You can go with X470 board and have a better chipset with a board with more feature, or go with a B450 for a lower cost.  

[jugaadkabaap]

32 minutes ago, Pducharme said:

Why a B550 board if you not have any PCIe Gen4 NVMe drive? You can go with X470 board and have a better chipset with a board with more feature, or go with a B450 for a lower cost.  

 

I haven't bought SSD yet, so i can always change it. Being candid, i am not much familiar with the potential gains. I was opting B550 for future proofing so that i don't need to change motherboard even if i upgrade processor. 

Will it make much more sense for me to have a PCIE Gen 4 SSD + B550 or choose current Gen 3 + 450/470 ? Will the gains be significant?

 

Edit - realized that there is no Gen 4 SSD in Dell US inventory and i am not forking more personal $. So will possibly explore B450 or X470

Edited June 17, 2020 by jugaadkabaap

[Pducharme]

The PCIe Gen4 SSD are quite faster, but in real-life performance, I went from a regular SSD (SATA3) to a NVMe Gen4 on X570 and haven't seen a lot more performance out of my PLEX librairies.  The images for the medias might be loading faster, but it's not very obvious.

[SirReal63]

My take on your plan is it will work.  I would reconsider a few things if the goal is long term upgrade potential.  This is only what I would or have done.  There are many paths to success.

 

1. Stay with the B550 because as of right now it will support the next gen Ryzen.  The Gen 4 PCIE support isn't a concern today but in 2 years it may make a real difference as will the ability to plug in the next gen CPU. 

 

2. Move up to an ATX or mATX.  ITX boards are typically short on slots, both PCIE and Ram.  If this server grows you will want to be able to grow it instead of having to swap board and case because of a lack of high speed slots or having to replace all of your memory because you don't have physical room to add.

 

3. Don't worry about matching PSU to current needs, the PSU will only provide as much power as needed.  If the system pulls 420 watts max then a 1000 watt PSU will give it 420 watts, not 1000.  Starting with a more powerful PSU will add flexibility for future needs.  I am currently running a 650 watt but I only have 5 spinning drives and low power consumption.

 

4.  The 3300X is a good CPU and reportedly fast, but it is 4 cores and 8 threads which may not be enough down the road.  You can currently buy a 6 core, 12 thread CPU for $105.  The R5 1600AF is structurally a R5 2600 with the same performance.  I went this route and have zero complaints.  I was considering the 3300X but skipped it.  This becomes tricky because a higher clock speed will help with games but a higher core/thread count will help with multiple tasks.

 

5.  Case cooling is important.  Whatever form factor you go with, it needs good cooling.  This becomes important for the drives.  All of my spinning drives are 7200 rpm and I had to change things from my original setup because all of drives were idling in the mid 40's C and cooking when in heavy use.   I added a drive cage, 2-5-1/4 x 3-3-1/2 Icy Dock which allowed the hottest drives to be in their own fan cooled cage and allowed me to keep a space between the others for cooling.  A fan across tightly packed drives limits cooling.  My drives are all in the low to mid 30's now.  Having those 5-1/4 bays saved me.

 

6.  You will need a video card to build and setup the system bios, after that you will not have to have one to run and administer the server if you have another computer, notebook, phone, iPad etc.  I used a cheap PCIEx1 card that was cheap to get the bios setup.  You will only need the keyboard/mouse to setup the system.  Your motherboard may require a keyboard to boot, but that is unusual.

 

7.  CPU cooling can be done with the stock cooler.  It will work better if the case has excellent cooling.  I used a Hyper T4 after switching to the 1600 AF because I had it.  If the rest of the system stays cool, it is easier to cool the CPU.  If the rest of the system runs hot then the stock cooler may not be enough.

 

I built mine with extra junk from old upgrades, then I upgraded what I needed to.  Unraid is very forgiving when it comes to hardware.

Edited June 17, 2020 by SirReal63

[jugaadkabaap]

4 hours ago, SirReal63 said:

My take on your plan is it will work.  I would reconsider a few things if the goal is long term upgrade potential.  This is only what I would or have done.  There are many paths to success.

 

1. Stay with the B550 because as of right now it will support the next gen Ryzen.  The Gen 4 PCIE support isn't a concern today but in 2 years it may make a real difference as will the ability to plug in the next gen CPU. 

 

2. Move up to an ATX or mATX.  ITX boards are typically short on slots, both PCIE and Ram.  If this server grows you will want to be able to grow it instead of having to swap board and case because of a lack of high speed slots or having to replace all of your memory because you don't have physical room to add.

 

3. Don't worry about matching PSU to current needs, the PSU will only provide as much power as needed.  If the system pulls 420 watts max then a 1000 watt PSU will give it 420 watts, not 1000.  Starting with a more powerful PSU will add flexibility for future needs.  I am currently running a 650 watt but I only have 5 spinning drives and low power consumption.

 

4.  The 3300X is a good CPU and reportedly fast, but it is 4 cores and 8 threads which may not be enough down the road.  You can currently buy a 6 core, 12 thread CPU for $105.  The R5 1600AF is structurally a R5 2600 with the same performance.  I went this route and have zero complaints.  I was considering the 3300X but skipped it.  This becomes tricky because a higher clock speed will help with games but a higher core/thread count will help with multiple tasks.

 

5.  Case cooling is important.  Whatever form factor you go with, it needs good cooling.  This becomes important for the drives.  All of my spinning drives are 7200 rpm and I had to change things from my original setup because all of drives were idling in the mid 40's C and cooking when in heavy use.   I added a drive cage, 2-5-1/4 x 3-3-1/2 Icy Dock which allowed the hottest drives to be in their own fan cooled cage and allowed me to keep a space between the others for cooling.  A fan across tightly packed drives limits cooling.  My drives are all in the low to mid 30's now.  Having those 5-1/4 bays saved me.

 

6.  You will need a video card to build and setup the system bios, after that you will not have to have one to run and administer the server if you have another computer, notebook, phone, iPad etc.  I used a cheap PCIEx1 card that was cheap to get the bios setup.  You will only need the keyboard/mouse to setup the system.  Your motherboard may require a keyboard to boot, but that is unusual.

 

7.  CPU cooling can be done with the stock cooler.  It will work better if the case has excellent cooling.  I used a Hyper T4 after switching to the 1600 AF because I had it.  If the rest of the system stays cool, it is easier to cool the CPU.  If the rest of the system runs hot then the stock cooler may not be enough.

 

I built mine with extra junk from old upgrades, then I upgraded what I needed to.  Unraid is very forgiving when it comes to hardware.

 

Thank you for the detailed response. Much appreciated. 

1. I was reading more about B450/ X470 and B550 and i think i will stick with B550 for future proofing. 

 

2. Entirely aligned on that, i just need to find a mATX case that fits the needs. 

3. Do you think a 550/ 600W PSU will suffice current and future needs? Any recommendations on that front?

 

4. This is really interesting as I never considered this CPU. Sad thing is, I cannot find any retailer that sells there for reasonable price in Canada. But thanks, this indeed is interesting. I will keep a watch. Do you have idea of any hidden gems in the intel lineup ?

5,6,7 -  I was thinking of having a dedicated GPU (nominal one) and I read that I can assign it to run dedicated to windows VM ? Also the drives i purchased are 5900 RPM and i might get a 7200 Drive later. As you mentioned, moving to a mATX form factor may allow more cooling and also (possibly) reduce cost as almost all  ITX MB and case i found so far are expensive.
Wrt keyboard and mice, i need it anyway for other needs so the MX Keys / Master setup will help me use it as a single KB / Mouse for multiple setups. 

[SirReal63]

3 minutes ago, jugaadkabaap said:

 

Thank you for the detailed response. Much appreciated. 

1. I was reading more about B450/ X470 and B550 and i think i will stick with B550 for future proofing. 

 

2. Entirely aligned on that, i just need to find a mATX case that fits the needs. 

3. Do you think a 550/ 600W PSU will suffice current and future needs? Any recommendations on that front?

 

4. This is really interesting as I never considered this CPU. Sad thing is, I cannot find any retailer that sells there for reasonable price in Canada. But thanks, this indeed is interesting. I will keep a watch. Do you have idea of any hidden gems in the intel lineup ?

5,6,7 -  I was thinking of having a dedicated GPU (nominal one) and I read that I can assign it to run dedicated to windows VM ? Also the drives i purchased are 5900 RPM and i might get a 7200 Drive later. As you mentioned, moving to a mATX form factor may allow more cooling and also (possibly) reduce cost as almost all  ITX MB and case i found so far are expensive.
Wrt keyboard and mice, i need it anyway for other needs so the MX Keys / Master setup will help me use it as a single KB / Mouse for multiple setups. 

Finding a case is always the hard part, at least for me.  There is little size difference in a mATX and a short ATX.  The benefits to the ATX are numerous but the challenge is finding one with good flow, enough drive capacity and reasonable size without the need to sell a kidney.  Silverstone has good options, but they are not inexpensive, however you also have the Dell option for cases as well, you may find a decent one if you ask and tell the rep your needs.

 

Yes and no on the power supply, there is no way I can answer that definitively, but a 600 watt will be good for a lot, depending on hardware.  I pull less than 300 watts with my setup, but adding power consuming devices like a fast GPU can change that.

 

I got my R5 1600 AF from Amazon, surprisingly, and it was $105.  There is a difference in the AF and the AE, the AE being an older version that isn't as powerful and is based on the first gen Ryzen where the AE is second gen, or Zen+ as they decided to call it.  You want the AF and not the AE though it will be a while before the 3300X runs out of steam if you go that route.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about drive speed, it used to matter but not so much any longer, the gains may not be worth the expense for a NAS.  I already had old 7200 rpm drives so I used them.

 

When I upgrade my current Unraid box, it will be ATX instead of the mATX I currently have.  I hope to add a Quadro GPU and I am already maxed out on slots.  It can happen quick. 

 

I am not the person to ask on Intel, the last Intel CPU I used for myself was a 286/12 around 30 years ago.  I have avoided them since then.  I have built many systems with them for my staff, but don't use them for myself.

[AdrianF]

Lots to chew on here but I can try and weigh in a little as I've been in the middle of a new build right now after experiencing some random shutdowns -- figured it was time to upgrade so I did.

 

CASE -- If you can find a Fractal Design Define R6 on closeout, that's a good case.  The R7 came out but isn't get as good a review as the last gen case -- it comes with the ability to mount 6 drives out of the box and adapters can be purchased after the fact to add up to 5 more 3.5" drives.   

 

PSU -- don't cheap out on this.  Try and buy either a RM___x or HX Corsair (as a start) or a Seasonic Focus PSU.  I ended up with a SSR-550PX Platinum PSU.  I'm running an Ryzen 5 3600 with 6 drives and will eventually have the full 11 in this case.  There are websites out there to help you calculate what kind of power draw to expect but assuming that the rule of thumb is 25-30W per 3.5" 7200 RPM SATA drive, even with a 150W pull on the CPU, I'm still gonna be good.

 

GPU -- well, since you're using a Ryzen, you'll need either a board that gives you crappy VGA output _OR_ some sort of video card.  If you're using the box for Plex transcoding, and have a Plex Pass, you can get away with a Quadro P400 card -- low power, low draw, and does two concurrent streams but can be "hacked" to do more.  I don't do transcoding in my case, so I didn't bother although if I feel the itch later, I might.

 

MOBO - X470.  It's the sweet spot right now.  Don't see enough with the B550 to make it worth the extra cash.

 

COOLING - stock coolers are kinda noisy and I replaced the Wraith Stealth with a bequiet! Pure Rock.  There are other options out there, but in my case, I didn't want to fuss with the backplate that was glued down to the board by the manufacturer.

 

Hrmmm.. "Future-proofing" is a hard one because you really don't know what you'll want to use it for in two years time never mind five.  I'd say spend the most you feel comfortable today and hope it gets you 3-5 years before you choose to upgrade.

 

Hope that helps.

[AdrianF]

On 6/17/2020 at 1:53 PM, SirReal63 said:

The 3300X is a good CPU and reportedly fast, but it is 4 cores and 8 threads which may not be enough down the road.  You can currently buy a 6 core, 12 thread CPU for $105.  The R5 1600AF is structurally a R5 2600 with the same performance.  I went this route and have zero complaints.  I was considering the 3300X but skipped it.  This becomes tricky because a higher clock speed will help with games but a higher core/thread count will help with multiple tasks.

The Ryzen 5 1600 AF (if you can find one still at a reasonable price) is definitely a good path.  It's slightly under the Ryzen 5 2600 in performance but not by much.  I ended up going the Ryzen 5 3600 route (non X) simply because it will give me a longer lease on life with my new build.  A mini-gaming PC I built over the winter was done using an Ryzen 5 2400g which is an amazing processor -- it's for mid-AAA titles and classic retro emulation plus some streaming and audio playback.  It served me very well. The Ryzen 5 3600 is a workhorse and gives you good bang for your buck.  I came from an i5-6500 and have ZERO regrets in going the AMD route for my Unraid build.

[jugaadkabaap]

On 6/19/2020 at 4:28 PM, AdrianF said:

The Ryzen 5 1600 AF (if you can find one still at a reasonable price) is definitely a good path.  It's slightly under the Ryzen 5 2600 in performance but not by much.  I ended up going the Ryzen 5 3600 route (non X) simply because it will give me a longer lease on life with my new build.  A mini-gaming PC I built over the winter was done using an Ryzen 5 2400g which is an amazing processor -- it's for mid-AAA titles and classic retro emulation plus some streaming and audio playback.  It served me very well. The Ryzen 5 3600 is a workhorse and gives you good bang for your buck.  I came from an i5-6500 and have ZERO regrets in going the AMD route for my Unraid build.

G version looks interesting. 

My choice at the moment is one of the following. 

AMD Ryzen 3 3200G - 140C$

AMD Ryzen 5 3400G - 210C$

AMD Ryzen 3 3300X - 180C$

Will need to pair it with the right MOBO. 

[SirReal63]

With those choices, I would stick with the 3300X.  The CPU Mark for it is 12,920, the R3 3200G is 7,291 and the R5 3400G is 9,391.  You are giving up considerable horsepower to get a crappy GPU solution.

 

For grins, the R5 1600AF is 12,520 and the R5 2600 is 13,241 and the R5 3600 is 17,809

[jugaadkabaap]

On 6/23/2020 at 4:48 PM, SirReal63 said:

With those choices, I would stick with the 3300X.  The CPU Mark for it is 12,920, the R3 3200G is 7,291 and the R5 3400G is 9,391.  You are giving up considerable horsepower to get a crappy GPU solution.

 

For grins, the R5 1600AF is 12,520 and the R5 2600 is 13,241 and the R5 3600 is 17,809

 

Thanks

 

Just a small update. Tagging @AdrianF as well. 

Managed to grab a 11 month old (almost like new) Phantek Enthoo Pro for 40C$ (delivered at home). So I am now going full ATX. I hope it is a decent case for my needs (also upgrades). 

As I am not in a rush, I am just searching for deals for other components and grab them one at a time. 

[AdrianF]

On 6/23/2020 at 4:48 PM, SirReal63 said:

With those choices, I would stick with the 3300X.  The CPU Mark for it is 12,920, the R3 3200G is 7,291 and the R5 3400G is 9,391.  You are giving up considerable horsepower to get a crappy GPU solution.

 

For grins, the R5 1600AF is 12,520 and the R5 2600 is 13,241 and the R5 3600 is 17,809

The R5 1600AF is a bargain if you're not paying stupid money for a discontinued product and can even find one. At approximately C$40 in price difference, I went with the 3600. 

[SirReal63]

The 1600AF is not technically discontinued until 2021 and there is a contract for the 12nm dies that probably hasn't been fulfilled yet. The whole reason we got the AF was no more 14nm dies.  I suspect we are seeing the price increases because of availability and demand.  At $85 launch price it was a steal, at $105 is was still a viable option in the marketplace but any more $ and it doesn't make sense.

 

I am probably good for a couple of years with what I have but I suspect I will upgrade my desktop before then.  It pretty much depends on cpu pricing.