Need advice - 24bay Server

[hansolo77]

I'm currently using a Norco RPC-4224 and am looking at a Supermicro 846.  I went to ebay/amazon and finally settled on the Server Store.  They have a customizer that will allow me to add/change the build before they ship it.  Here's what I'm currently looking at:

 

Processors: 2x Xeon E5-2695 v2 2.4GHz 12-Core CPU's, (Passmark-20906) - $400.00
Memory: 64GB (8x 8GB) DDR3 Registered Memory - $96.00
Storage Controller: LSI 9210-8i (Flashed to IT Mode)
Operating System (Boot) Drive: No Drive Installed
Storage: 24x Hard Drive Trays with Screws
Graphics Card: No Graphics Card Installed
Operating System: No Operating System Installed
PCIe Network Card: No PCIe Network Card Included
Power Supply: 2x PWS-920P-SQ - $200.00
4-Post Rack Rail Kit: No Rack Rails Included

 

The processors are a downgrade in speed compared to my current single E3-1276, but I think the performance will be improved with the 12-cores vs my current 4-cores.  That, and it's 2 of them, so 24-cores really.  This should really help out with my transcoding of BluRay's and Plex Streaming.  The base build had different specs, that's why it shows a price.  As for the memory, I'm currently using 32gb DDR3, so I'm just doubling that (I still plan on giving my brother my current system so he'll need what's there).  As for the controller, I'm not sure if that's good or not.  There is no way to change it in the customizer.  I see the specs say that it's 6gb, which is what my current card is.  But one distinction here that I think I see is that it will connect to the backplane without the need of an expander.  My current system needed one in order to get data to all 6 rows of backplanes.  The power supply is really the only other thing I changed.  It comes with regular 1200w supplies, but I've seen enough Youtube videos that recommend I get the SQ ones because of the noise.  I also plan on removing the fan wall with the 3x80mm fans and put in 3x120mm Noctuas.

 

That's what I'm looking at right now.  I was originally just going to buy the chassis and the power supplies.  But then I started thinking it might be better to just get a prebuilt system.  I'm not intending to use this as a gaming pc.  Just massive data storage and transcoding for Plex (along with some Windows computer backups).  What are your thoughts?  I'm still sitting on a COVID stimulus check, so money isn't really a concern RIGHT NOW.  Should I just go with this and then upgrade as needed?  I plan on adding a graphics card to help with hardware transcoding.  I've also got a few 2.5" SSD's for cache, etc.  Should I skip this build and go back to the original plan with an empty chassis and PSU and then build a system with current gen PC parts?  For stuff like M.2 ports, etc.

[ramblinreck47]

First off, it’s good you’re moving away from Norco to Supermicro. Norco is essentially dead and their IPC Store just doesn’t fulfill orders, so you’re at least moving to a better made server where parts are plentiful in case it ever breaks. I have a Supermicro 835 and 836 and they are both built like tanks and perform flawlessly. Best cases I’ve ever owned.

 

You’re trying to build a server at a weird time. Yes, older Xeon v2’s are becoming less expensive and ECC DDR3 is plentiful and dirt cheap, but it does come with some caveats. These systems, especially dual CPU systems, are ridiculously power hungry compared to their modern counterparts. You’re also going to have to deal with more restricted PCIE lanes (mostly PCIE 2.0 and PCIE 3.0) and ports (no M.2, lack of USB 3.0, etc.), which isn’t that bad right now but will become more noticeable in the near future. The Xeon v3’s and v4’s are better in this regard and are also coming down in price. I think they’re at a significantly better value right now compared to the v1’s and v2’s. 2133mhz ECC DDR4 is falling right now and it’s easy to find a lot of RAM for a reasonable price of eBay, Reddit, or ServeTheHome.

 

You have the right idea with the PSU’s. I too have those SQ PSU’s and they’re very quiet and very efficient. I don’t regret going with them at all. The HBA is fine if you don’t plan on loading up the entire server with drives or don’t mind a significant drop in performance during parity checks. Since it’s a PCIE 2.0 x8 HBA, you’ll definitely feel its limitations when you need to run a parity check. It’ll take a good while to complete. You’d almost be better off selling it and buying a PCIE 3.0 x8 HBA like a LSI 9300-8i or HP H220. They’ll give you the bandwidth you need for just a few dollars more.

 

You could tear out the fan wall and replace the fans with 120mm fans. It’s been done by quite a bit of people with decent success. The thing is though, you really don’t need to unless you want to make more work for yourself or enjoy modding cases. The easiest and less obtrusive option is to replace the 3 fans on the fan wall with FAN-0074L4’s and replace the 2 fans in the rear with FAN-0104L4’s. They’ll cost about the same amount as the fan wall mod. It’ll just require you to remove them from their holders and drop them into the ones in your SC846. They move nearly the same amount of air as your stock fans all while making considerably less noise. No cutting metal; no permanent marks. I did this in my 836 and although it’s not quite silent, it is definitely not loud, and I have no problem sitting right beside it and working when it’s being pushed hard.

 

Honestly, if you have the option starting from scratch and going with either older server hardware or new hardware, the best option is the new hardware. I’d get a barebones 846 and fill it out with all new hardware. A Ryzen 9 3900X costs as much as those 2 x E5-2695 v2’s and runs circles around them all while consuming far less energy. You don’t get the same amount of PCIE lanes (shouldn’t really matter unless you want to run a bunch of VM’s) but you do get speed, power efficiency, a tremendous upgrade path, and all sorts of ports that are becoming increasingly more useful. Matched with a decent Nvidia GPU, you’ll have a transcoding and encoding monster for years to come. I recently built an E-2278G system and even I’m preparing to move to a Ryzen system whenever 6.9 becomes stable and established. I’m hoping Black Friday is going to bring some really nice Zen 2 deals this year!

[hansolo77]

Thanks for the feedback. 

 

I've experienced Norco's fails personally.  Not only did they ship my chassis with minimal protection, it was delivered verticaly on the front face, and busted the USB ports and power button, and the handles.  When I asked them for a replacement, they said the model case I had ordered was no longer in production and they didn't have spare parts for the handles/ports.  Then once I started installing drives, I ended up discovering I had 2 broken backplanes, one of which showed signs of burnout when I hadn't even connected anything to it yet.  They were unwilling to exchange my DOA backplanes and instead insisted I buy replacements, which weren't even of the same model (SAS1 vs the SAS2 it came with).  I then asked them about an extra drive caddy because lost the spring to one of the doors, and they said they didn't sell individual caddies, but would sell me 5 for like $20.  I just left it as it and decided to not deal with them anymore.  Not only did they sell me a brand new yet faulty product, they were unwilling to replace their defective parts or offer a decent replacement price.  Nope, Norco can just die far as I'm concerned.

 

My plans are to fill this guy up fully.  My Norco case has 24 drives already, which I will be moving over to this new case.  I also have 4 SSD drives just sorta hanging in the case.  Really not ideal, but I don't really know how else to do it.  I don't want to use up drive caddies for SSD's.  I saw a video (I think it from the ebay seller "theartofserver") where he had some drives mounted vertically along the PSU wall. That would be great if I could do it.  But yeah, in regards to plans, I definitely plan on using all available capacity.  Something I recently saw too was that the SC846XA chassis actually has a 2.5" caddy under the motherboard but the cost for just the chassis is over $2k.  That's just not in the budget.

 

The fan mod is more a preference for me.  I currently have the stock 80mm fans in my Norco and it's crazy loud.  Replacing them with 120's required more work than I was willing to do at the time.  I've seen multiple videos on Youtube about the 846 case and the mod for it, and it seems much more easier and better to do.  My only concern would be the temps.  Currently, I have to have the server in my bedroom closet.  It sleeps when I'm at work, but if I'm doing a recode of BluRay's, or running a defragment on the drives, they can get up to mid-50's easy.  I have a tower fan sitting on top of the case to blow the hot air out of the closet when I open the door, but it only helps some.  When that door is open though you can definitely hear those fans.  If I can reduce the noise that's almost better than reducing the temps IMO right now.

 

I'm glad you agree with the SQ power supplies.  Always nice to know I'm looking in the right direction lol.

 

What my ultimate goal here to do is... I need something that will provide me with great storage (24-bays) and fast speeds on it.  Currently I'm using a PCI/E 8x LSI that runs 6gb/s.  It connects to an expander which goes out to the 6 backplanes on the Norco.  It works, but the speed is ridiculously slow.  After I dump 4-5 BluRay disks on my main computer, and move them over to the server, I was getting only about 75mb/s speed.  When I look at Drivepool's data, I do see the drives are running about 125mb/s reads/writes.  So I know my bottleneck is somewhere in my network.  Further in the future, I will upgrade to 10GB lan rather than 1GB.  But since I'm pretty much starting fresh from scratch (minus the drives), I'm open for anything.  I know I will be using Plex.  A media server is my primary goal.  VM's are nice too, because I do want to have something like Windows Server 2012 running so I can continue to do backups of my computer.  Everything else is fair game. 

 

So I need a chassis that can do at least 24 drives, and some way of handling SSD's (or if I can, get a mobo that has NVME/M2 and get a couple of those kinds of SSD's for cache).  I'd also like to have a fast connection to the drives.  I know 12gb/s cards are available, but does the backplane support that speed (and do drives really do that too?  I don't know if my drives can?  I also have a tuner card which is PCI/E that I'd really like to continue using for Plex.  I also have a PCI tuner that I'm pretty much going to have to give up now since PCI is practically dead.

 

So my budget is kinda iffy.  I work in a grocery store deli.  I've been there 11 years so my pay is better than you'd think but with bills I can still only manage a little here and there.  I can build as I go, which is how I'm doing with the current setup as far as increasing storage drives.  But I do currently have a stimulus check still sitting in my savings account that's not being used and slowly collecting interest.  I also have a $50/week paycheck deposit into that account as well.  So (without tax) I can currently sit happy with $3k spending.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[hansolo77]

I just spent the last 2 hours digging through motherboards on Amazon.  Going with @ramblinreck47's suggestion of a Ryzen 9 3900x...  (I really have no idea here, I've been an Intel fanboy for years).   I think I've narrowed it down to 3 possible motherboards.  Will have to decide on pros/cons and cost.  I'm not necessarily stuck on these options, and definitely not hung up on buying with Amazon (just thought it would be a simpler browse that way).

• Asus ROG Strix B450-F (linky) - $176/free ship Amazon

  • Pros: 2x M.2 slots, Cheap, Seems to have enough PCI/E slots

  • Cons: Not sure if there are enough PCI/E slots that are at least 3.0 for a new HBA card, 32gb total DDR4

• Asus Prime X570-Pro (linky) - $281.39/free ship Amazon

  • Pros: 2x M.2 slots, onboard USB port (don't need headers or back I/O plate), 128gb total DDR4, seems to have 3x PCI/E 4.0 slots

  • Cons: Only 1 M.2 heatsink, more expensive

• MSI MEG X570 ACE (linky) - $469/free ship Amazon

  • Pros: 3x M.2 slots, onboard USB port, heatsinks on each M.2, Seems to have 3 PCI/E 4.0 slots, 128gb total DDR4

  • Cons: Comes with crap I don't need like wifi and RGB lighting, really expensive

Right now, I'm leaning for Asus Prime.  It's in the middle of my list/cost.  It has the PCI/E 4.0 I'd need for a new HBA card.  It has the M.2 slots.  And it supports the same amount of RAM as the more expensive MSI.  So really, the only thing the MSI has that I'd be missing is 1 extra M.2 slot and the useless wifi stuff.  It might be fun to have but I really don't need that.  The only other thing I need to do before going with the mobo and cpu combo is RAM.  The Asus ROG only supports 32gb.  That's the most my current system has, so I wouldn't really notice much improvement there.  But it is DDR4 whereas I'm currently using DDR3, so maybe that's enough with the 3x amount of cores I'll get with the Ryzen?  I dunno.  <shrug>

 

Any thoughts on this?  I'd really like to have input before I pull the trigger.  I've not built a new computer from scratch like this in over 7 years.  Overkill for my use is ok because I do hope to spend more time playing around with things like VM's and stuff.  But I don't want to overkill the overkill.  I also don't want to underdo it either.  Like I said.. this is for a fully loaded 24-bay server that will be primarily for Plex/media and computer backups.  I know I still have to get a graphics card too eventually.  But for starters, I need the cpu/mobo/ram combo that will fit my needs.

 

Thanks guys.  I really appreciate this community and the help!

[ramblinreck47]

4 hours ago, hansolo77 said:

I just spent the last 2 hours digging through motherboards on Amazon.  Going with @ramblinreck47's suggestion of a Ryzen 9 3900x...  (I really have no idea here, I've been an Intel fanboy for years).   I think I've narrowed it down to 3 possible motherboards.  Will have to decide on pros/cons and cost.  I'm not necessarily stuck on these options, and definitely not hung up on buying with Amazon (just thought it would be a simpler browse that way).

• Asus ROG Strix B450-F (linky) - $176/free ship Amazon

  • Pros: 2x M.2 slots, Cheap, Seems to have enough PCI/E slots

  • Cons: Not sure if there are enough PCI/E slots that are at least 3.0 for a new HBA card, 32gb total DDR4

• Asus Prime X570-Pro (linky) - $281.39/free ship Amazon

  • Pros: 2x M.2 slots, onboard USB port (don't need headers or back I/O plate), 128gb total DDR4, seems to have 3x PCI/E 4.0 slots

  • Cons: Only 1 M.2 heatsink, more expensive

• MSI MEG X570 ACE (linky) - $469/free ship Amazon

  • Pros: 3x M.2 slots, onboard USB port, heatsinks on each M.2, Seems to have 3 PCI/E 4.0 slots, 128gb total DDR4

  • Cons: Comes with crap I don't need like wifi and RGB lighting, really expensive

Right now, I'm leaning for Asus Prime.  It's in the middle of my list/cost.  It has the PCI/E 4.0 I'd need for a new HBA card.  It has the M.2 slots.  And it supports the same amount of RAM as the more expensive MSI.  So really, the only thing the MSI has that I'd be missing is 1 extra M.2 slot and the useless wifi stuff.  It might be fun to have but I really don't need that.  The only other thing I need to do before going with the mobo and cpu combo is RAM.  The Asus ROG only supports 32gb.  That's the most my current system has, so I wouldn't really notice much improvement there.  But it is DDR4 whereas I'm currently using DDR3, so maybe that's enough with the 3x amount of cores I'll get with the Ryzen?  I dunno.  <shrug>

 

Any thoughts on this?  I'd really like to have input before I pull the trigger.  I've not built a new computer from scratch like this in over 7 years.  Overkill for my use is ok because I do hope to spend more time playing around with things like VM's and stuff.  But I don't want to overkill the overkill.  I also don't want to underdo it either.  Like I said.. this is for a fully loaded 24-bay server that will be primarily for Plex/media and computer backups.  I know I still have to get a graphics card too eventually.  But for starters, I need the cpu/mobo/ram combo that will fit my needs.

 

Thanks guys.  I really appreciate this community and the help!

A few points:

- I think the Asus X570-Pro is a good pick. It's actually the one I'm looking at possibly getting if I make the switch to AMD.

- M.2 heatsinks are only like $10.

- Do you want ECC or do you not care? If you want ECC, there are Kingston 2666mhz ECC modules that are easy to find and relatively inexpensive. 3200mhz modules are just now starting to become available though and those would be better (the max speed without having to overclock). If you don't care about ECC, any 3200mhz that's on the QVL would be good and cheap if you do some searching and waiting.

- I'm not sure if you'll need a GPU to boot with that motherboard...it'll be worth looking up...if you do need one, there's a Nvidia GT 710 (~$40) that fits in a PCIE 3.0 x1 slot which you could later use for VM's after you get a proper GPU for transcoding

[hansolo77]

Awesome. Thanks for getting back to me.  I was actually watching my email at work all day today hoping a notification would come up about a reply, never got it.  But I just now looked and saw your response.

 

When it comes to ECC/not...  None of my computer builds in the last 20+ years had ECC ram.  Only when I built my current server did I get into ECC.  The motherboard I got for it required ECC.  It's a server board from AsRockRack.  I chose it specifically because it provided a standard PCI slot as well as the PCI/E's.  I don't know if ECC is really worth the cost.  This is a home server/enthusiast built, not a business data center where things like that would be necessary.  Since I'm still spitballing here, I think faster memory over error correction would be more useful. 

 

As for graphics, yeah that might be a problem.  The motherboard supports video out through HDMI and/or Display-port.  My monitor I currently use only does standard VGA or DVI.  Without my server-grade motherboard, things like IPMI/KVM aren't going to work, so I'll have to figure out some way to connect a display up when finally building.  I'm so out of the loop when it comes to hardware here.  The last display upgrade I did was an nVidia GTS 250 (this one matter of fact).  HDMI wasn't even really a thing yet, and my board actually didn't come with that port on it.  My brother is more up to date than me.  I was asking him just a year or so ago how the audio works with his HDMI out.. like does he have to attach an audio wire to some pin headers to get the onboard audio to go out through the HDMI?  Turns out it just works, the video cards now do audio too.  Crazy.  In a pinch though, I could easily find an HDMI to use for initial setup, and worry about adapters and things to my monitor later.

 

I'm going to wait a while before buying.. I was all set and ready to pull the trigger on a barebones chassis with the SQ power supplies today when I was on break, and found out TheServerStore was sold out.  UHG!  I'm sure they'll get more in, hopefully not too long.  They have a reserve option so I signed up for notification when they get them.  I want to get the chassis in first then try and maybe get all the internal parts together.  I won't be able to do the drive stuff for another week or so after all that comes in because I don't have a spare HBA and will have to order one.  I'll probably look for recommendations when that time comes too. 

 

Thanks again!

-------------------

Quick Edit:

If I do buy this Asus X570-Pro board, hopefully it will come with the BIOS support for the 3900x CPU.  I don't have an older model CPU to spare to update the BIOS.  I really wish manufacturers would design and develop a way to update the BIOS with a new CPU.  I mean, this is the 21st century.  Surely there must be enough computing power in the board alone to have it run a POST and show the BIOS screen for updating.  Anyway, it looks like there are some Amazon reviews where people have had no issues out of the box.  I'm just weary.  Antsy pre-build jitters I guess.

Edited July 3, 2020 by hansolo77

[Keexrean]

You would need a GPU to boot with this motherboard (it might be able to do headless, but you would need one if you want to at least configure the BIOS and all.)

AMD doesn't integrate graphic in their CPU, unlike intel, unless they explicitly state it in their CPU number, by a G. Like the Ryzen 5 3400G.

 

You will indeed need a GPU, but don't take it as an issue in itself, as I heard you transcode video?

With Unraid Nvidia and a green team GPU, you could get some real use out of the caveat of needing a GPU sloted in for the board to post, grabbing the GPU away from the console displaying task and put it to work to transcode.

 

 

Also, X570 chipset natively supports 3xxx ryzen. B450 is the one needing a BIOS update.

Here's the cheat-sheet for you

 

 

A was the now deprecated "cheapogarbagio"/basic board chipset line, B is the correct-to-nice consumer/gaming oriented one, X is the highend/overclocker/RGBpuke/featurerich line.

3xx boards are 'native' to 1000 series ryzen, 4xx boards are 'native' to 2000 series, 5xx boards to 3000 series, and won't need a BIOS update/swap to support their 'native' generation.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Keexrean

[hansolo77]

I'm still waiting for TheServerStore to restock the SuperMicro 846 case. 

 

In the mean time, I'm narrowing down my components selection.  I think I've decided to get the MSI Meg X570 Unify motherboard.  I was re-evaluating my use and expansion needs.  I know I need at least 1 PCIe x16 slot for the graphics card (probably going to get a Quadro P200, seems to be the most talked about right now).  I'm also going to need a PCIe x16 slot for an HBA controller.  I haven't factored that in yet, but I believe this board will support a card in the bottom slot at 8x speed, which will hopefully be fast enough.  I haven't found any boards that actually have 2 x16 speed slots.  The other slot I know I need is at least a PCIe 1x slot for the tuner card, but I can easily plug it into an x16 slot too.  Future plans might include a 10G card, but I don't have anything that can use it yet.  I was looking at the Godlike board, but decided I didn't need it given the extras it comes with would take up all the slots (an m.2 expander and a 10G card).  So I'm just going to wait on those.

 

As for onboard storage, I decided I wanted to have a board that has 3 M.2 slots.  2 of them would be used as the unRaid cache, and the 3rd would be used as either the OS or perhaps the Plex metadata.  When it comes to unRaid cache, this is a new area for me since I'm not at all familiar with unRaid.  What are the recommendations here?  I'm probably going to get some Samsung 970 Evo Pro drives, but I'm not sure about the size.  I know when it comes to speed, the 1tb would probably be a good choice because it comes with a larger capacity flash to store larger files faster (based on many Youtube videos).  But, 512gb is more cost effective.  I do have large video files and ISO's I would be moving around in the data storage, so I'm thinking the 1tb would be adequate.  I also know that none of my files would exceed 60gb at the largest (so far) so maybe 512gb (x2) would be enough?  What are the community's thoughts?

 

For the CPU, I'm going to get the Ryzen 3900X.  I looked at the Ryzen 3950X but don't think I'll see much difference in the stats to justify the cost for my use case.

 

The motherboard supports up to 128gb DDR4 ram.  I will probably fill to that capacity eventually, but for now I'm just going to go with 2x32gb (64gb total) sticks and leave room for 2 more 32gb in the future.  I'm looking at this Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro kit.  It runs at 3200mhz which is not overclocked, so it should be fast enough for my needs.  I don't needs all that fancy RGB stuff since I'll never see it.  So if anybody has any better recommendations in this area, please let me know!

 

So this is what I'm looking at now.  I'd like suggestions and recommendations on the M.2 unRaid cache storage, as well as RAM.  I'm not locked in on anything really, so feel free to give input.  Again, my goal is to have a really strong and fast PLEX server, ability to run VMs (mostly Windows Server so I can backup my computers).  I also need something to transcode PLEX streams and re-encode BluRays.  I also have a tuner card I'd be using with PLEX.  Internally, I'll be using 2x12tb Parity drives mounted on the PSU wall.  The OS would probably be stored on an M.2 slot unless I can come up with a really stable USB drive, in which case I'll be using the M.2 as PLEX metadata.  So yeah... thoughts?

[Idolwild]

I'm paying close attention to what you are doing here - I was going down the same path (The Server Store - SM 846 - a bit different config, but for all intents and purposes the same). This thread has really got me thinking about building my own, maybe going the Ryzen route. I love the idea of having modern ports and busses that I can expand on for years to come.

 

How is it coming? Do you feel you are reaching a conclusion on your parts manifest? My challenge so far has been enclosure - I am on a time line to get off of what I'm on now (a big tower) and I also want 24-bay expansion capabilities. Most of the stuff on the market seems cheaply made (Norco, Chenbro, Rosewill, etc) - and I didn't know you could simply use an 846 case with an ATX board, but I don't really want to want around for SS to be back in stock.

 

How is the HBA coming? Got any ideas there? What else are you discovering in this journey? Any thoughts you have are welcome build brother!

[hansolo77]

I’ve posted another thread detailing my parts. I’ve ordered everything and it’s started coming in. UPS is taking their sweet time picking up the stuff from Newegg. I ordered on Friday and it still shows it’s waiting for pickup. Then I heard the California governor just did a statewide shutdown so who knows when I’ll get my stuff. Still waiting on the motherboard and ram. Ugh.