Questions about UPS with Unraid and Windows

[Stonelesscutter]

I'm scouting for a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) for my planned build of an Unraid server / gaming PC. Because I have no prior experience with Unraid, some questions came up, which in this case are not specifically hardware related, but because they tie into it I thought this would be the best place to put them.

 

The idea is to run Unraid as the base OS and run Windows 10 on top of it. The build would feature a bunch of hard drives hosting all my media content, but would also feature a fairly beefy CPU and GPU for gaming. Once I complete the project, the total cost will surely run into thousands of pounds, so I thought it would be wise to protect this investment by using a good UPS. But since, as I mentioned, I have no experience with how Unraid works, I currently find myself wondering.

 

• Does giving a shutdown command in Windows (in case of power outage) also automatically shut down the Unraid server, or would that require a separate shutdown command?
• Could a proper shutdown sequence (for both Windows and Unraid) be initiated by a UPS in some way, in case a power outage occurs while I'm sleeping or away?
• What if a power outage occurs while Unraid is running a parity check or rebuilding a drive, can this process be paused and safely continued or restarted later? If it is possible, how much time would approximately be required (to know how much time the UPS should be able to cover during outage) to safely and properly pause or cancel this process?

[Energen]

So the first two questions are easy to answer... "yes".

 

Though I'm not sure what you mean that you'd run Windows on top of Unraid.. do you mean in a VM?

 

As long as you get a compatible UPS (i.e. APC, CyberPower) you can use either NUT or APCUPSD to control both Unraid and Windows. 

 

I have mine set up so that Unraid is the master or server for the UPS, and my Windows PC is the client.  I have the Windows client of apcupsd running on the PC that will get power notifications from Unraid.

 

Unless you spent even more money on a UPS that offers a network card for multiple computers this is the only way that I know of to control 2 or more computers.  Personally I couldn't justify another $200 for a network card for my UPS just to do this when the client/server software works just fine.

 

As to the third question, I can't confidently answer it.  I wouldn't be too concerned about the parity check, I've manually stopped those before when needed.  Rebuilding a drive, that's a bit more serious scenario.

 

My only other suggestion is that you just get the largest UPS that you can afford.  A 1500va/900w CyberPower UPS is generally under $200USD and is plenty to run off for most people.  I have roughly 20 minutes of run time powering my Unraid server and my Windows PC (including all my network stuff and LCDs).

[Stonelesscutter]

47 minutes ago, Energen said:

So the first two questions are easy to answer... "yes".

 

Though I'm not sure what you mean that you'd run Windows on top of Unraid.. do you mean in a VM?

 

As long as you get a compatible UPS (i.e. APC, CyberPower) you can use either NUT or APCUPSD to control both Unraid and Windows. 

 

I have mine set up so that Unraid is the master or server for the UPS, and my Windows PC is the client.  I have the Windows client of apcupsd running on the PC that will get power notifications from Unraid.

 

Unless you spent even more money on a UPS that offers a network card for multiple computers this is the only way that I know of to control 2 or more computers.  Personally I couldn't justify another $200 for a network card for my UPS just to do this when the client/server software works just fine.

 

As to the third question, I can't confidently answer it.  I wouldn't be too concerned about the parity check, I've manually stopped those before when needed.  Rebuilding a drive, that's a bit more serious scenario.

 

My only other suggestion is that you just get the largest UPS that you can afford.  A 1500va/900w CyberPower UPS is generally under $200USD and is plenty to run off for most people.  I have roughly 20 minutes of run time powering my Unraid server and my Windows PC (including all my network stuff and LCDs).

Thanks! You basically already answered a follow-up question I was gonna ask, if it's possible for a UPS to shut down two separate computers. With "Windows on top of Unraid" I indeed meant in a virtual machine. I've seen people do that, and I was thinking of doing it the same way, but now, after replies I received on the other thread I posted today, I think it would be more sensible to build two separate computers rather than running Windows as a VM.

 

Could you perhaps enlighten me a bit more about this master-client setup you have with your UPS?

 

This UPS with network thing might be something worth looking into for me as well. I would have two PCs running on it but am also thinking about getting a PS5 and hooking that up to the UPS as well, and of course the TV, otherwise I would have no way to see what I'm doing with the computers if the power goes out. I don't know if it makes sense though to have a PS5 on a UPS though. It's not like the data on it would be critical. I'm just afraid that the device could be damaged if it gets shutdown unexpectedly. Or, perhaps two separate UPSs would be an option worth considering, one for the gaming system and one for the Unraid server.

[Energen]

20 minutes ago, Stonelesscutter said:

Could you perhaps enlighten me a bit more about this master-client setup you have with your UPS?

Sure, so Unraid already has built in support for UPS's on the Settings page, it's got APCUPSD built in already. (http://apcupsd.org/manual/manual.html)

 

And it's already it's own server.. which makes everything easy.  On my Windows PC I install the apcusbd software (which can act as server or client) https://sourceforge.net/projects/apcupsd/files/win-binaries - Stable/3.14.14/

 

Then, simply, I modify the configuration file on Windows to get data from the server.   You can configure any other options you want in the file but these two lines get you connected to Unraid.

 

UPSTYPE net
DEVICE <UNRAID_IP>:3551

 

This really is the cheapest and maybe even easiest way of running multiple pcs off one ups.  Your two main options for network capabilities are from CyberPower and APC.

 

https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/hardware/rmcard205/

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/UPS-Network-Management-Card-2/P-AP9630

 

On top of the cost of the UPS.  No thank you I say.

 

Unraid also has a plugin for NUT, which essentially does the same thing.  Either one will work with apcusbd on the Windows pc.

 

As far as a PS5 and stuff.. well it's funny you mention.   I've got my PS4 and Xbox connected to the UPS also.  I don't remember if I actually put it on a battery backup plug or just a surge plug but I seem to recall thinking that in the event of an outage I wouldn't want to just be dropped from a game I'd like to be able to say "oh snap gotta go! power's out!"

[Stonelesscutter]

3 hours ago, Energen said:

My only other suggestion is that you just get the largest UPS that you can afford.  A 1500va/900w CyberPower UPS is generally under $200USD and is plenty to run off for most people.  I have roughly 20 minutes of run time powering my Unraid server and my Windows PC (including all my network stuff and LCDs).

I was looking at a Cyberpower UPS already, this one...

 

https://www.cyberpower.com/uk/en/product/sku/cp1500epfclcd-uk#specification

 

But this UK version seems to only offer two regular power (UK-style) power sockets and four IEC C13 sockets, the latter of which aren't used by any of my devices. Preferably I'd find a model with at least 5 regular sockets on power backup + surge protection. That would allow for the two computers, the TV, the PS5 and the router to keep functioning for a while on an outage. The US version however appears to offer eight US-style sockets, four of which offer power backup + surge protection and four only provide surge protection. I suppose I could plug power strips into two two sockets and connect the devices to those, but that seems like a less elegant option. Would you happen to know of any models which offer more UK sockets, like maybe 10 even? (five backed up and five surge protection only for example)

 

Edit: Actually the US version (1500 VA / 1000 W) seems to offer 12 US-style sockets. (https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/pfc-sinewave/cp1500pfclcd/)

Edited July 11, 2020 by Stonelesscutter

[Energen]

CyberPower may not be the best solution for you then, looks like they primarily serve US based customers.

 

Best they seem to offer for the UK is a 3 battery / 3 surge unit https://www.cyberpower.com/uk/en/product/sku/BR1200ELCD-UK#specification

 

You can use power strips on the battery plugs, provided that you don't overdo it.  If you used two of them to separate hardware you'd be better off.

 

You could see if any of these APC units offer more https://www.apc.com/shop/uk/en/categories/power/uninterruptible-power-supply-ups-/computer-and-peripheral/N-a4lk5lZ7ykz98

 

I don't know anything about this brand but someone here mentioned it in another UPS thread..  looks like 5xUK plugs is the best they offer https://powerwalker.com/?page=product&item=10120033&lang=en

 

[Stonelesscutter]

After looking around some more, I'm thinking the CyberPower CP1500EPFCLCD is probably the best way to go for me. I'll just plug in one or two power strips to plug the devices into. The computers could probably be plugged into those IEC ports directly if I get the appropriate cables.

 

What I'm wondering about now is those Ethernet ports on the UPS. Apparently they offer surge protection as well and they're 1 Gb ports. What I'm not getting is what to use them for and how to use them.

 

• If the router is already connected to a surge protected power socket, are the network cables attached to that router not already safe?
• Are you supposed to plug your main router into one port and then plug another router (which would hold all the connected devices) into the other port, thereby protecting all devices but the main router?
• Or are these ports just for the communication with the computers to implement the shutdown commands?
• If it is that last case, how would I connect the computers to the router if the Ethernet port is already taken up by the UPS?

[Stonelesscutter]

36 minutes ago, Energen said:

CyberPower may not be the best solution for you then, looks like they primarily serve US based customers.

 

Best they seem to offer for the UK is a 3 battery / 3 surge unit https://www.cyberpower.com/uk/en/product/sku/BR1200ELCD-UK#specification

 

You can use power strips on the battery plugs, provided that you don't overdo it.  If you used two of them to separate hardware you'd be better off.

 

You could see if any of these APC units offer more https://www.apc.com/shop/uk/en/categories/power/uninterruptible-power-supply-ups-/computer-and-peripheral/N-a4lk5lZ7ykz98

 

I don't know anything about this brand but someone here mentioned it in another UPS thread..  looks like 5xUK plugs is the best they offer https://powerwalker.com/?page=product&item=10120033&lang=en

 

Thanks again! I checked out the other UPS models on their UK website and it seems they offer far less variety than for the US models. They do offer bigger ones, but that price range gets way out of my league and those products appear to be geared more towards enterprises. Of the lower class models, the one you linked to for example offers 6 UK power sockets, judging from the picture. This range however uses a simulated sine wave, instead of true sine wave like the CP1500EPFCLCD. Also their capacity is lower. This PowerWalker brand you mentioned looks intriguing. The price of that 2000 VA model is a lot lower than the CyberPower model while the power capacity is higher. This definitely warrants looking into some more. Thanks a lot for that one! I suspect the delivered power won't be as "clean" as that of the CyberPower one though.

[Energen]

I wouldn't bother with the Ethernet protection.  The idea behind that port is to protect you from any surges through the ethernet cables themselves.  Also does some filtering.. "Maintains clean power for connected equipment by filtering out electromagnetic and radio frequency interference to improve picture and sound quality."

 

I don't think the filtering part is really needed... or the surge protection. If you wanted to use it, then I think you would want to have your cable modem IN to the UPS and then OUT to your router.  But the surge suppression is listed at only 405 joules, which is nothing.  And the filtering could potentially make your signal even weaker.  Most ethernet cables are shielded already anyways.

 

And no those ethernet ports on the UPS have nothing to do with shutdown commands or any communication.  They are only for the surge protection.

 

 

 

[Geck0]

Hi, just to help out with choice. I've recently installed this:

 

Cyberpower Systems PFC LCD 1500VA Tower UPS with AVR

Model: CP1500EPFCLCD

 

Amazon Australia

 

It was a straight forward install, I was expecting a headache. I haven't tested it to shutdown yet, but it kicked in when I pulled the plug out of the wall and unRaid is pulling the status from the UPS fine. Hope that helps. I haven't tried installing software on the Window's VMs to shutdown gracefully yet.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Geck0

[ChatNoir]

3 hours ago, Geck0 said:

I pulled the plug out of the wall

You should not do that as it also removes grounding for everything plugged to the UPS.

It's better to trip a breaker, that should only remove power and keep ground.

[Geck0]

Thanks for the advice. You're right,I didn't think of that.