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Mihle

Lifetime of UPS.

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2 hours ago, jonathanm said:

The UPS itself can last many years longer, the batteries need to be replaced periodically. Oversizing does two things, allows longer runtime, and consume more electricity during normal non-backup running.

Most do a periodic test that simulates a power failure and starts drawing power from the batteries. If the batteries lose voltage faster than normal, the UPS signals a battery failure. Many UPS's also track the calculated runtime based on how much capacity the batteries had when new, and the tested capacity, and signal a failure when the battery is significantly weaker.

I dont know how lead acid batteries degrade, but it doesnt just for example say less than 65% battery capacity it reports you to change them?
Couldnt you then just somehow put it to 45% for example and ofc make sure 45% is enough for your server/nas and therefore have it live for longer time?

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Under full load is the only figure that matters, as shutting down the running system puts it at full load for the duration of the shutdown. Since you can't divine the future, there is no way to know how long the power outage will be, so you must plan to always shut down the system during an outage.

 

That means to properly size a UPS, you find the full load power draw, and the maximum time it takes to do an unplanned shutdown, with all services and VM's being utilized. You then take that power and double the time, and look on the manufacturers spec sheet to find the appropriate UPS.

 

If your system takes 100W at full load, and it requires 5 minutes to shut down, then you need to find a UPS capable of supplying 100W for 10 minutes. This is the minimum size required, and assumes you will configure the server to shut down almost immediately when the power is cut, waiting 1 minute at most.

 

Also keep in mind that your network equipment should also be on the UPS if you plan on communicating with your server after the power goes out and before it's shut down.

I just remembered I still have had it plugged in to the cheap thing you put between it and the socket to measure power usage. Dont know how accurate it is but it says 37w idle now, and max it has been since I put it there (a few months maybe) is 66w. Tho I do not know if that is actually the most it can. PSU is 300w only because it was the smallest that also was considered good quality. Who knows if I will ever change the CPU with something more powerful or not tho, maybe I should pretend it draws 120-200w just in case?

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Do you keep a full current backup of everything on your server? If so, then you can probably skip a UPS.

Movies and stuff is only on there but important files there is a copy on my desktop, but if it outgrow the size of the HDD iin my Desktop then I dont know. That also do not have an UPS, because why would I.

 

41 minutes ago, trurl said:

yet

Are SSDs more sensitive to power failures than what HDDs are? I dont have any SSDs in the NAS but I am considering getting some.
Also havent had anything wrong as I know with my Desktop through the years as I know of either.

Also, does it matter if an UPS is something called in line or offline standby?
As far as I know, I have never had a brownout here, only blackouts but as I said much fewer that some people seem to have.

Edited by Mihle

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31 minutes ago, Mihle said:

I dont know how lead acid batteries degrade, but it doesnt just for example say less than 65% battery capacity it reports you to change them?
Couldnt you then just somehow put it to 45% for example and ofc make sure 45% is enough for your server/nas and therefore have it live for longer time?

Sometimes it works that way, more often once they start to lose capacity they drop off much faster instead of degrading linearly. The most common failure mode is that they still appear to hold some charge, but as soon as they get a load, they drop to almost 0. That's why typically as soon as they start degrading it's time to replace.

 

35 minutes ago, Mihle said:

Also, does it matter if an UPS is something called in line or offline standby?

Not for computers with good quality PSU's. The always on UPS's are needed when the connected equipment can't tolerate even a single missed cycle in the power wave. Switching UPS's drop the power for a very small but definite period of time while they switch over. Most electronics have filters that can cover that gap without a problem. Non-switching are always running the load off the batteries, and always charging the batteries. Under normal use the batteries aren't actually drawn down or charged much, as the charger balances to the load, but when the power goes out nothing actually changed as far as the output is concerned, just the batteries start being drawn down because the charger is off.

 

Fun fact, the models I use specify a higher output power than input power, because they can briefly push the output harder than the charger can refill the batteries. Good for startup surges, they are one of the few UPS's that are rated for laser printers.

43 minutes ago, Mihle said:

Are SSDs more sensitive to power failures than what HDDs are? I dont have any SSDs in the NAS but I am considering getting some.
Also havent had anything wrong as I know with my Desktop through the years as I know of either.

Probably the same. The issue with power interruptions causing data corruption isn't about the hardware specifically, it's a matter of timing, and what exactly is in process and not fully completed when the rug is pulled out.

 

If the server is idle for a period of time before the power is removed, the chances of corruption are pretty low. If you have a bunch of files being written, chances of corruption is almost guaranteed.

Medical equipment usually specifies the higher quality units.

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DIY battery back up  Would connect to line servicing my home theater area.

I have been looking at this for a while now. Not only for my Unraid servers but for my home theater area. 

I have two 1500 APC's now which is protecting the servers fine, but with expensive equipment in my theater system, this DIY solution might be nice for the extended periods of power outage. Plus living in TX I could use solar to re-charge batteries.

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If I decide getting one even with that lifespan,
Is there some brands I should stay away from or all they all the same?
I mean there is quite a few brands out there, some of those I have seen is:
PowerWalker
Eaton
APC
Cyberpower
FPS Group
And others too

 

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10 hours ago, jonathanm said:

Different manufactures can use special signalling that may not have programs compatible with linux / Unraid.

 

Unraid out of the box uses http://www.apcupsd.org/

but you can install a plugin that uses https://networkupstools.org/

 

Just make sure whatever models you are considering can talk to one of those two programs.

After searching the web, the only two brands I haven't found people that had issues is APC with apcupsd or Eaton with NUT, does that seem correct?

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MY UPSes don't talk directly to unRAID... yet :D

My Windows Server host does however, and if the power is out for a pre-determined period of time, it commands the unRAID box (and a couple others) to shut down, so as to preserve run-time for the more critical equipment.

Since I now have 3 UPSes in the rack, I might let the unRAID one talk directly to it's "primary" UPS.

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2 hours ago, Michael_P said:

My Cyberpower PR1500LCDRT2U works fine with apcupsd

That spesific one is much much more than I need but now I know

Edited by Mihle

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Seems like some people have had issues with PowerWalker, so stay away from those?

 

Also, does it have to have USB?

Edited by Mihle

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There is so many different UPSes, I have no idea who to get at all.

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Any opinions on these:

Eaton Powerware 5E/5S/3S
APC Back-UPS BX series
CyberPower Value Pro (Have heard some bad experiences with CyberPower?)
Eaton Ellipse ECO
APC Back-UPS BE (Is it just a BX in another form factor or is the any other differences?)

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Anecdotally, I stay away from APC after a couple of bad experiences - one of the BR1500Gs I had protecting my server failed spectacularly, one of the power transistors exploded (literally) filling the room with smoke as it continued to try and operate. Luckily, someone was home to yank the plug.

 

The replacement (brand new) BR1500G failed in less than a year.

 

I do still have a few NS1080's protecting desktops and AVR, tho. No issues with those so far, except surges have taken out the AVR, twice. Haven't been able to specifically blame the UPS for not stopping the surge(s), tho, as it could have come in from a different path. I put a LE1200 behind the UPS and the AVR still got popped a second time.

 

YMMV

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9 hours ago, Michael_P said:

Anecdotally, I stay away from APC after a couple of bad experiences - one of the BR1500Gs I had protecting my server failed spectacularly, one of the power transistors exploded (literally) filling the room with smoke as it continued to try and operate. Luckily, someone was home to yank the plug.

 

The replacement (brand new) BR1500G failed in less than a year.

 

I do still have a few NS1080's protecting desktops and AVR, tho. No issues with those so far, except surges have taken out the AVR, twice. Haven't been able to specifically blame the UPS for not stopping the surge(s), tho, as it could have come in from a different path. I put a LE1200 behind the UPS and the AVR still got popped a second time.

 

YMMV

What do you use now?
Also there is a surge protector in the fuse box in this home now.

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I use the PR1500LCDRT2U now for the server/network

 

I have always had a surge suppressor in the main panel, and another in the sub-panel. Fat lot of good they do lol. I suspect the first surge was a near lighting strike that induced a charge on my security camera's video line, back to the security DVR (which fried) and sent a surge down the connected HDMI to my AVR which then passed it along to my projector. In all, about a $5,000 hit - tho both the projector and AVR were replaced/repaired under warranty.

 

No idea where the second one came from, it only made my HDMI ports go screwy this time. When I replaced my security system with POE cameras, I connected the switch via fiber to the rest of the network, so no chance of it passing it beyond the cameras.

 

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Surges can be a funny thing.

 

I had a client where we installed multiple $500+ Cisco access points, and this one specific AP location would get it's lunch eaten if there was a strong enough lightning storm nearby.  Was a really fun day when it backfed into the $1000+ Cisco PoE switch that was powering EVERYTHING, nuking half the switch.  Owner got tired of replacing expensive APs, so I started putting in "cheap" $100 UniFi APs... and they never blew up once.

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