Planning for a Multi VM/docker machine

[bhootz]

So I've been running a freenas server for almost 6 years now and it has served me well, but with the introduction of x265 formats for space savings my old cpu (xeon E5-2609 v3) is easily overcome with plex transcoding. Out of the 2 options of either upgrading mobo + cpu for the freenas server I've decided to make another (separate) box to solve my needs in 2020.

So while I don't really need the "raid" part of unraid, someone still recommended Unraid for the ease of UI (I don't really like CLI/Terminal though i can copy paste) and VMs.

My current requirements are

PLEX server running 24x7 using freenas as the data pool

Windows VM on demand for when I need to do some gaming (8.1 or 10).

Pihole vm running 24x7

Ubuntu/Linux distros VMs on demand. 1 permanent 1 for experimentation.

A few more 24x7 lightweight VM and maybe another windows 8.1/10 on demand VM for professional setup.

 

I want all the systems/vms do be running with the same monitor, keyboard and mouse of the Unraid as I want to get rid of my old alienware laptop.

So while I can use a separate laptop setup of the "tower", but eventually it'll get binned. I'd want this to be a single machine solution. The windows and/or Linux maybe used for gaming. Basically my gaming has stopped coz of alienware getting very hot, so this might rekindle my dead passion.

 

Hardware I'm planning

#CPU : Ryzen 7 3700x

 

#Gfx card(s) : ?

I guess I'll need 3.

-Quadro P2200/P2000 for plex

-One cheap one for display of the OS

-One more for running win and/or Linux for gaming.

 

#Ram : I could populate maximum

 

#HDD a couple of NVME. 1 for os/storage and 1 as a cache.

I have a lot of wd red (4tb lying around) which I may repurpose.

 

#MOTHERBOARD : ?

Torn between a few kindly help me choose coz I'm getting mixed answers for running so many gfx cards.

-Aorus X570 Pro (non wifi)

-Aorus X570 Master

-ROG strix F X570

-Aorus X470 wifi 7

I'm sure I'll not go Ryzen zen 3 since there is nothing 8 core with a 65w tdp plus I found the X470 to be the best VFM since all boards are very similarly priced. Couldn't really find the thermal performance and PCI performance but I'm also not interested in the PCI 4 as of now. PCI 3 is plenty enough for me.

 

#Case/SMPS/ accessories can be obviously purchased once I finalize the core of the system.

 

Also since storage isn't in the primary concern, is there an OS based on BTRFS that supports VMs/dockers and has an active community. Every kind of these searches has led me to a NAS solution or a hypervisor (yet to research those).

 

I hope the post was self explanatory, but incase someone wants to ask a few more questions I shall try to answer everything to the best of my knowledge.

 

 

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[bhootz]

Anyone?? Anything?

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[trurl]

On 10/9/2020 at 4:46 PM, bhootz said:

don't really need the "raid" part of unraid

Unraid IS NOT RAID.

On 10/9/2020 at 4:46 PM, bhootz said:

My current requirements are

PLEX server running 24x7 using freenas as the data pool

Do you mean that is your current system, or do you mean you require freenas as the data pool on your new system?

 

On 10/9/2020 at 4:46 PM, bhootz said:

is there an OS based on BTRFS that supports VMs/dockers and has an active community. Every kind of these searches has led me to a NAS solution or a hypervisor (yet to research those).

 

Some of your questions make me wonder if you know what Unraid is.

 

Unraid is a NAS OS that hosts VMs and Dockers. The NAS part of Unraid isn't exactly RAID, but it does allow for up to 2 parity disks. Each data disk is an independent filesystem, no striping. This allow mixing disk sizes in the array.

 

[bhootz]

Hello. Thank you for the reply.

Yes my knowledge of unraid is limited because the only way I've learnt about it a few years ago when Linus started making crazy storinators for various people. I liked the concept and thought I'll use it some day. After that I've seen a few videos and everyone is talking about populating x number of disks. I really don't need that part. I mean FREENAS does the same thing (sw raid/parity)

The existing freenas system is doing fine except the cpu is weak to transcode media, so now I want to run this unraid machine to be transcoding the media and access the freenas as SMB share or something.

 

TLDR For me Unraid takes the media from FreeNAS, transcode it into the desired format and spits it out.

 

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[hk4l]

New to unraid as well, 

Someone correct me if I am wrong. But I think you can get away with two GPUs one for system and plex transcoding. and one passed through to VMs

 

also, unraid runs docker images which are definitely easier to set up and can be lighter weight than a full VM per service. Search for "SpaceInvaderOne Unraid" on youtube lots of good videos to get you set up.

 

in terms of motherboards I have read that most 470s should support 5000 series ryzen but you might want to get a board with better vrm if you want to make sure it supports the higher core count ones

 

link to aorus board comparisons looks like the x470 officially has a max of 64gb ram and the x570 look to go up to 128gb dont know if that is a deal breaker for you

 

[trurl]

3 hours ago, bhootz said:

x number of disks. I really don't need that part. I mean FREENAS does the same thing (sw raid/parity)

The existing freenas system is doing fine except the cpu is weak to transcode media, so now I want to run this unraid machine to be transcoding the media and access the freenas as SMB share or something.

Unraid requires one data disk in the array before you can start services to use dockers or VMs. You could access shares from a separate freenas server over the network using Unassigned Devices plugin. Not sure if this would perform any better for transcoding than what you have now since the files would have to come over the network before they could be transcoded.

 

Why not just get your data onto Unraid NAS and leave freenas out of it?

[bhootz]

New to unraid as well, 

Someone correct me if I am wrong. But I think you can get away with two GPUs one for system and plex transcoding. and one passed through to VMs

 

also, unraid runs docker images which are definitely easier to set up and can be lighter weight than a full VM per service. Search for "SpaceInvaderOne Unraid" on youtube lots of good videos to get you set up.

 

in terms of motherboards I have read that most 470s should support 5000 series ryzen but you might want to get a board with better vrm if you want to make sure it supports the higher core count ones

 

link to aorus board comparisons looks like the x470 officially has a max of 64gb ram and the x570 look to go up to 128gb dont know if that is a deal breaker for you

 

The only thing I fear is the PCI lanes. I believe the mobo would go x8 + x8 + x4 for a triple graphics card. The cheap graphics card (for video out) would take the top slot with x8 pcie. The vm graphics card would take up the mid slot with x8 and the p2000/2200 would take the last slot with x4. Would any of them bottleneck?

I know maybe I'm over engineering it, but in my country the returns after purchase don't exist. So I have to be VERY SURE of the hardware I buy.

 

Unraid requires one data disk in the array before you can start services to use dockers or VMs. You could access shares from a separate freenas server over the network using Unassigned Devices plugin. Not sure if this would perform any better for transcoding than what you have now since the files would have to come over the network before they could be transcoded.

 

Why not just get your data onto Unraid NAS and leave freenas out of it?

 

I guess having 1 nvme would suffice since the OS runs off the USB itself?

 

Thanks.i just wanted to know if a plugin/docker or a method existed. With transcoding I'm limited to the CPU power which scores less than 5k in the cpu passmark, which would never be able to bottleneck a 1gbps connection. With the new hardware I hope I'll be able to achieve a bit more than current scenario.

 

The eventual plan is to shift to unraid (probably) but right now the data is quite a bit. I'd have loved to just populate the unraid, but migration will need me to buy new hard disks. I have 8x8tb raidz2 (comparative to riad 6) and freenas is touchy about removing disks. I mean I will always need minimum 6 disks to retrieve data. With a lot of family albums and backups, I'm kinda stuck with what I have.

I wish I planned migrating to unraid about a year back when I was switching from 4tb disks on freenas to 8tb. Data migration would have been very easy.

Another reason I want to jump in right now is to get a good hang of whatever unraid issues I might face before moving my entire library. The movies/TV shows can definitely be re-ripped and will only consume time, but family albums? Really scared of messing something up and losing everything.

I wished I could try unraid as a VM on my existing hardware or laptop so as to understand everything. You know like make 8x5 gb v disks and run a mock system for a couple of months, understand the OS and move over with confidence.

 

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[tjb_altf4]

On 10/10/2020 at 4:46 AM, bhootz said:

-Quadro P2200/P2000 for plex

-One cheap one for display of the OS

-One more for running win and/or Linux for gaming.

Assuming you are running plex in a docker (which most users do), you won't need a seperate gpu for the OS and therefore you shouldn't have issues with pcie lanes

[bhootz]

Are there issues trying to run a Ryzen 3 with a P2000/2200 for HW transcoding? I did read somewhere in plex pages that they only support Nvidia + Intel (I think they called it quick sync) for hardware transcoding on plex.

[tjb_altf4]

26 minutes ago, bhootz said:

Are there issues trying to run a Ryzen 3 with a P2000/2200 for HW transcoding? I did read somewhere in plex pages that they only support Nvidia + Intel (I think they called it quick sync) for hardware transcoding on plex.

They are referring to using the Intel iGPU for HW transcoding, if your are offloading transcoding to a GPU, then CPU choice has minimal impact.

So yes, Ryzen is fine in your scenario
 

[bhootz]

So I know it's kind of a Nerc'd topic, but the shortage of parts had me running around and I'm happy to report most of my build is complete.

CONFIG

Ryzen 5900x

Asus Dark Hero x570

Corsair 4x16gb

Adata XPG x11 pro 2TB (cache)

WD red 2x4TiB (storage)

PNY Nvidia P2200

3080/3090 still missing

Most of these components had to be fought for and I luckily got what I imagined. But I'm sure you'll all realize why I had a build delay. I'm happy to report today my UNRAID is up and running and I have started my 30 days of free trial.

Just to recap

Main reason for this machine is plex (with HW transcoding) and VMs.

So I downloaded the community apps and found plex and was able to set it up for UNRAID storage and it seems to be doing well. I added a couple of files and they ran pretty well.

Now I want to also add my FreeNAS (TrueNAS) files to the same server. I tried looking under MAIN  for unassigned drives, and found none. I have SMB/CIFS/NFS enabled on my TrueNAS, now it's just a matter of how to map the TrueNAS share to UNRAID. I know I could run a windows VM and passthrough the GPU and add both TrueNAS and UNRAID network shares and call it a day, but running windows 24x7 for me is a ticking time bomb. I know it'll run into errors and I will not have reliability.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

PS I also know this isn't an ideal setup and I'm probably asking for the moon and some stars, but I want to be sure if this "awkward" proposition is supported by UNRAID before I make a purchase.

 

[ChatNoir]

You should install the plugin Unassigned Devices, then you will be able to add shares from other sources on your network.

 

Here is an example of shares on my Synology NAS.

 

You can then access them from your Unraid server or share those from your serveur.

 

And I can see those from my Midnight Commander (or any other way to access to what is available on Unraid).

[bhootz]

Thanks for the quick reply. I was able to mount the server (yippiee), but still not able to find the share on the plex folder. Let me try the plex/docker subthread. Thanks for all the help. I'm sure I'm very close and happy to see a very active and helping community.

Edited February 25, 2021 by bhootz