Mea Culpa and Apology


limetech

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Limetech, apology accepted as I have nothing to do with this. I am the new kid in the block and extremely happy with the work and community here.  Keep up the good work and just don't bite the hand that feeds you,  is all I can say.  I think you guys are rock solid and I see a good future for this work.

 

I used to be on an automation forum, Indigo Domotics and they kind of started like you guys, small and then big?  And then they absolutely ignored their development community and moved to a subscription model still expecting "free" development.  Matt & Jay, 2 arrogant owners managed to send many people looking for other solutions and I will leave it that.  I decided that is time to stop being the milk to their FAT cow....

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On 11/23/2020 at 8:07 PM, TheIstar said:

 

 

 

Now with this analogy, ask yourself.

Is the reaction of @CHBMB (the uncle) proportionate and justified? Does a parent (@limetech) need to inform the uncle of these kind of things? Sure it is nice, but is it really needed? Do you think it is right for the uncle to punish the kid? Should the parent even be grateful that the uncle presents the kid a toy with sharp edges (I know I wouldn't).

 

The only one the uncle should expect thanks from i.m.o is the kid. The community is and was grateful. Yet @CHBMB is the one who decided to punish the community and take away their toy because of his hurt feelings.

 

 

 

 

 

Late to the party.

I love unraid I have been using it for years, I have even recommend it to a family member and a friend who have gotten licenses.

I have even contributed in my own little way.

I have read your analogy twice and all I am getting from it is you think @CHBMB  is acting like a Spoiled brat and they should only expect thanks from the community. Even know they and other like them stepped up to help the community (parented) when the community were being ignored from the Unraid team (parents).

 

Now that the unraid team has decided to parent again the uncle should expect no thanks and if other community members don't like it they can leave?

Of course their feelings are hurt they have put in so much time helping people just for the sake of helping the community.

 

Just like you said why should they help the kids if the parents aren't grateful and are scared their help will damage the kids?.

 

Remember they aren't getting paid like the unraid team.They don't have to help and share their toys.

 

With that being said maybe unraid will put more of an effort in when it comes to the community devs they are after all what make unraid what it is imo.

 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Selmak said:

 

Late to the party.

I love unraid I have been using it for years, I have even recommend it to a family member and a friend who have gotten licenses.

I have even contributed in my own little way.

I have read your analogy twice and all I am getting from it is you think @CHBMB  is acting like a Spoiled brat and they should only expect thanks from the community. Even know they and other like them stepped up to help the community (parented) when the community were being ignored from the Unraid team (parents).

 

Now that the unraid team has decided to parent again the uncle should expect no thanks and if other community members don't like it they can leave?

Of course their feelings are hurt they have put in so much time helping people just for the sake of helping the community.

 

Just like you said why should they help the kids if the parents aren't grateful and are scared their help will damage the kids?.

 

Remember they aren't getting paid like the unraid team.They don't have to help and share their toys.

 

With that being said maybe unraid will put more of an effort in when it comes to the community devs they are after all what make unraid what it is imo.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Selmek,


I think you missed the important part in my analogy, namely the "ask yourself."

I meant to make people think for themselves and not just follow what others, including me, think. And it seemed at the time everybody was bashing @limetech and I wanted to make people stop and think if this was fair or if the truth was more moderate.


As for my analogy and the thankfulness of the parent. Of course I think he (the developers) should be thankful.
But I would never take away a present I gave to my nephews or nieces just because I had a fight with my bother or sister. And if I give them (my nieces or nephews) a present I do not expect thanks from my brother or sister either, though it would be nice of course.


In the end it think it comes down to entitlement en expectations.

Experience has learned my something though: When you do something that no one asked you to do and you do it out of your own accord and free will, do not expect any thanks, you might be thoroughly disappointment. And if you do do something because someone asked, only expect thanks from the person who asked and not anybody else. After all, that someone else might not even be happy you did it in the first place.

It seems though some people here do expect that someone else to say thanks, and there is the problem, because expectations create disappointment.


As for me thinking @CHBMB is a spoiled brat, I don't think that at all. I only think he should evaluate who should be thankful and if what he did was fair to the people he wanted to help in the first place. The people who SHOULD be thankful are all of them screaming at him to keep updating his build.
And I do actually get his frustration, I also have been frustrated in the past when people have not seen the effort I did for something. You feel sad and disappointed. I think everyone with a certain age and work experience knows. Hence me previous remark regarding expectations and disappointment.


Something I do not get from your text thought, first you say: "...they have put in so much time helping people..." -> have to.

Later you say: "They don't have to help and share their toys." -> Don't have to.

Which is it now, have or don't have? if they don't then neither Limetech nor the community should have expectations of them and vice versa. If they have to, then we can expect them not to take away the toys and behave more like our employees.


The answer of course is they don't have to. It is their choice. But if someone chooses do to something it is their choice. you can not force someone else to follow it. That's the great thing about open source, you can choose to use it, you can choose to make plugins for it, you can choose to share the plugins and you can choose to stop sharing them. But you can not force someone to do anything including being thankful.

I see this a lot in the opensource communities: I made this, I spend a lot of time on this and now you have to include it and you have to be thankful. The thing is, things don't work like this and it is a toxic way of thinking. And UnRaid is not even a fully opensource project.


I love UnRaid and I love all the community developed plugins and I am super thankful to all of them. I even think they deserve part of the money you pay for the product since they have such a big part in Unraid's success (idea for a community app, a community donate function?) But I have no expectations of them to keep doing it. If Binhex or LSO decided tomorrow to stop then so be it. It would suck but it is their right. So why do they have the right to expect anything, even a thanks? It is a 2 way street. Like i said, I am thankful but I should not be forced to be thankful. I am because I choose to.


I do agree with 1 thing though. It would be great if the developers put in effort to work closely with the community as objectively it is something that contributes greatly to the success of UnRaid. I just don't see it as something they have to do, but as a nice to have.
Though it seems they are already working on it and I am not in a position to judge if it is sufficient. But I am hopeful.

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8 hours ago, TheIstar said:

Something I do not get from your text thought, first you say: "...they have put in so much time helping people..." -> have to.

Later you say: "They don't have to help and share their toys." -> Don't have to.

Which is it now, have or don't have?

I literally said Just for the sake of helping.

8 hours ago, TheIstar said:

helping people just for the sake of helping the community.

 

8 hours ago, TheIstar said:

I do agree with 1 thing though. It would be great if the developers put in effort to work closely with the community as objectively it is something that contributes greatly to the success of UnRaid

I agree on this if Unraid didn't have Docker and CA I would not personally be using it.

 

9 hours ago, TheIstar said:

I am thankful but I should not be forced to be thankful. I am because I choose to.

No one is forcing anyone to be thankful however that should just come with someone helping you. Basic respect and all that.

Obviously everyone's moral compass tilts in different directions that's just life I guess.

 

@limetech FWIW  I am enjoying having the GPU drivers integrated into Unraid looking forward to future updates.

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I am not here just for storage.  VM - Docker - Community Driven Development - A real OS made by real people - Creative Solutions - Help for one off problems - people looking to solve new problems in new ways - constant evolution.  I looked at other NAS systems, other OS, other boxed units and settled on Unraid after a few weeks of research.  I'm VERY happy I did.  I'm glad to be here.  I don't want to see it turn into anything else, except, a further evolving product.  I paid for a PRO license, and, I am very appreciative to have this software available to me.  I was a user of the Nvidia option so that I could run folding with my geforce card.  I don't transcode, but, I want the option to keep using my nividia products.  Personally, I'm glad it is being folded into the main build. 

 

Well done community & @limetech   and - thank you to everyone who has been nice to me in the forum.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh, damn... I'm even more late.

I love unRAID, even before it was all capital letters. I quit using it for media storage, because... streaming. Had a tuner card and all the drives and stuff.

I had a friend, to whom I had recommended UNRAID, ask me what was up with the tuner cards, and just mentioned that the DVB plugin wasn't being developed anymore. I had bought a NAS, and was just using it to back up computers in the house. My job isn't IT... and making it a hobby was ... stressful.

 

Recently, I think, oh, I'll just build a NAS with my UNRAID license and ... oh ... I see what "not being developed more" means.

I didn't have a solution for my friend on tuners. Personally, I ended up trading for a two-bay Synology and using a network tuner... and by "use" I mean it sits around and does nothing, because ... my job isn't IT ... and making it a hobby was ... okay, you get it.

I think there's this gap between "regular" people who just want a box, and a community of members / developers / enthusiasts that have to agree on how things work. A lot of my friends will simply pay for a box full of drives that does VMs and stores media. This drama is too much for them. Not because personal interaction is hard (it is very hard) but because they're willing to exchange money for ease.

Community contributors don't even ask for money, they just want recognition. It's not a requirement, and sometimes money isn't a good solution for exchange of ideas or products. Some of us just take things. Like I was *taking* all that media. I figured it was just easier to pay for someone else to manage my storage solution.

 

---

 

I'm thinking that leaving this "broken toy" on the floor, and apologizing is like... step 1. Step 3 is "profit" (as they say). So, step 2 is to roll that stuff [back?] into the product, and compensate the contributor. That might be recognition or money. Beats me, but "y'all gotta get it together"...

I'm screaming in the back seat because my Uncle and my Dad can't get along and we aren't there yet... I want my UNRAID box to work, not watch the Maury show where parents argue about genetic contribution to a child -- and Maury actually earns money from all the drama.

 

---

 

I ain't mad at Maury, but someone needs to take care of that kid. I think Maury pays the participants on the show. So, you know what to do.

Am I saying that Synology is like Maury Povich? If so, the rest of us are not winning.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I really didn't expect drama like this coming out of UnRAID, I have to say. 

Sympathize with both sides of this particular argument, but I do hope the impacted developers see the olive branch being offered as genuine and come back to the fold. We'll all be stronger for it. 

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