Recommendations for hardware for new unraid build

[DrBobke]

Hi guys, I have been reading on this awesome forum all morning and am really excited to get into this community.

 

As I am looking for a new NAS system, a friend recommended me to look at Unraid instead of Qnap or Synology, which I did and so far, I LOVE all the things it can do!

I did read the section on wiki (https://wiki.unraid.net/Hardware_Compatibility#Recommended_Builds), but it seems those are very old builds and nothing is in stock anywhere.  So I do apologize if I have missed something there, I know how tiring it is getting the same questions over and over again, but can't seem to find any recent posts on this.

 

I have been using a NAS for about 10 years now (NASDeluxe 7bay, 2700T), to house and store my pretty large collection of movies - mostly 1080p, mkv as a file storage. Since it has had very poor speeds during the last months, and I can't even watch a 720p movie without stopping the movie about 5 times during the entire movie (and I need to restart my Popcorn hour), I thought it was time to get a new NAS. I did a test with Blackmagic Disk Speed Test, which showed 14.3 MB/s write and 25.9 MB/s read speed on my desktop pc, which is downstairs, the NAS is housed on the top floor (3 stories), all wired with cat5e UTP, and gigaswitches.

Transcoding the movies sounds nice too and I want to futureproof my setup, to also include 4k movies.

 

In reading and looking up things, I found that I can also edit pictures straight from the NAS on Photoshop, Lightroom and Photomechanic, provided that my Lightroom catalog is on my computer (or is there a workaround on this?) - this is very interesting, as I am a full-time photographer.  I have a self-built WIN10 machine with loads of HDD's inside to house my photos and usually edit them off an internal SSD (not M.2 yet, as my PC is about 7 years old). I never thought about putting my images on my NAS, to edit them directly.

 

In my house, I have almost everything wired with cat5e UTP (except for some running on wifi), gigaswitches, an ASUS AC-RT5300, ASUS AC-RT68u and two ASUS AC-RT86u to have enough Wifi coverage in the house - but no 10 Gbe connections or wiring, nor on my PC. I do not have a thunderbolt port in my PC either. My other machine I work off of, is a Dell XPS15 (9550), which does have a thunderbolt, but the machine is so bad for editing, that I'm usually only using it in a pinch, despite it having an M.2 Samsung EVO Plus 1TB SSD and the specs being the best Dell offered at the time of purchase.

 

Since I am a professional photographer, I want things to run smoothly and would be great to edit off the NAS from both my laptop and my desktop.  Next to that, it would be great to share specific folders with clients (Nextcloud I have already found), so they can download their images too and I can use it during client meetings to show my work, slideshows, etc.

Since I want to futureproof, I would like a NAS with at least 8 bays, so I have lots of storage going forward. Ideally, I want something fast enough to edit from, that can house my movie collection (and going forward also 4k content).  In the future, I might also want to add security cameras outside the house, but I heard that it would not be good to use the same NAS for that, as it would bog down everything?

 

It's usually just me using the NAS, but maybe my girlfriend would want to use it too for viewing pictures and edit Premiere Pro movies of our daughter (though this is limited, certainly not even a weekly operation). If 10 Gb is vital, I can think about upgrading parts of the UTP's and switch in the coming year(s), or can I get to acceptable speeds using linkover from two (or more) cat5e UTP's?

My current NAS houses about 10 Tb worth of movies and my photo library in my PC is around 15-20 Tb. I would go for 4 or 5 HDD's of 8-14 TB, depending on their pricing at the moment of purchase (hopefully in the next couple of days).

 

So I'm looking for everthing to start building my own Unraid NAS. I'd like it to be fast enough, without breaking the bank, but if it comes down to it, I'd rather invest more in something stable that will work for a long time, than something cheap that will cause more problems than it solves.  I think a Mobo with M.2 drives and 10Gb connection would be an awesome starting point, but I don't have enough knowledge on hardware to know what I need.

 

I do have an old PC standing around here with an Intel Core i5-2300 CPU @ 2.80 GHz and 16 GB RAM. The Mobo is Intel® Desktop Board DP67DE.

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Edited December 9, 2020 by DrBobke

[DrBobke]

Last night, I was thinking if it would make sense to upgrade my current PC and use the hardware of that to build the unraid NAS and buy new bits for my own pc.

My Mobo: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-X79-UP4-rev-11#ov

32 GB RAM, Intel Core i7 4930K @3.40 GHz (6 cores).

New GPU GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER.

I know from when I wanted to include M.2 SSD in my machine, an adapter wouldn't let me install it on the Mobo, as it was too old.

Is there a big difference for me using SSD's over M.2?

Is the board something that is recommended for the Unraid, or am I better off using something else?

 

Otherwise, what I have looked up so far, but would like to have some help to determine if the hardware is good or what can be better / what is overkill? : 

 

Mobo

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X470D4U2-2T&fbclid=IwAR26lWPaspEcbNu7Ol4hrM7_Gwgg36KHhinC2f0dCe96lxlwnrE1HPFzOBk#Specifications about €350 

Newer model is :

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X570D4U-2L2T&fbclid=IwAR380QTwkHeAuZ8X8IK4zXsV67CE3jGxmPOukWstQcEXWOLptQFYZBokC8Q#Specifications but this is about €515, is the difference worth the extra money?

 

CPU

Not sure what to get, a friend has :

AMD Ryzen 5 2600X processor (about €160)

Or is there a better option? I have no real knowledge on hardware..

 

GPU

A friend has :

GeForce GTX 1660 6GB (€228.95)

Is this sufficient, or better to get a faster/better card?

 

RAM

A friend is running 16GB RAM, but maybe it's safer to go with 32 GB Ram, so it is fast enough?

Corsair 32 GB DDR4-3200 Kit 

(Black, CMK32GX4M2B3200C16, Vengeance LPX, XMP) for €134.90

Or

Corsair 32 GB DDR4-2666 Kit 

(Black, CMK32GX4M2A2666C16, Vengeance LPX, XMP) for €120

Or 16 GB around €75.

 

SAS HBA

A friend has Broadcom HBA SAS 9400-16i (16 port), which is €520

https://www.senetic.be/product/05-50008-00?gclid=CjwKCAiAiML-BRAAEiwAuWVggqZGcSXsbTAQhbhgzVggrnnEES6OZ0qDG5LwrfQ3DndHotFwQ4iC1RoC688QAvD_BwE

Can't I use the SATA Connectors ports on the Mobo in the beginning?

 

Disks

M.2 drive(s)

1 or 2 M.2 drives I have 1 Toshiba M.2 512GB PCIExpress Gen3 4 lanes (my old SSD from XPS15).

 

HDD's

3 or 4 HDD's (1 or 2 parity drives, rest for storage).

Toshiba N300 bulk 8TB

€175.75

or

Toshiba E-Capacity HDD 14TB

€342.43

 

Cache drive?

Needed for Virtual Machines?

 

USB Thumb drive

Sandisk Cruzer Fit 32GB (USB2.0 is better than 3.0). (€12.90 bol.com).

 

Power Supply

I have a PSU Antec 750 W Continuous truePower Classic (ong €100) https://www.newegg.com/antec-truepower-classic-series-tp-750c-750w/p/N82E16817371073

A newer one I installed in my Desktop - corsair HX1200i (ong €320). https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Power-Supply-Units/hxi-series-config/p/CP-9020070-NA  I can easily swap over the PSU in my desktop (so the 750W for the 1200i, should that be neccessary).

 

Cooling

What do I need?

 

Extra fans?

What do I need?

 

Case

https://www.alternate.be/Fractal-Design/Define-7-XL-Black-TG-Light-Tint-big-tower-behuizing/html/product/1576642?event=search for €199

https://www.alternate.be/Fractal-Design/Meshify-2-XL-Black-TG-Light-Tint-big-tower-behuizing/html/product/1669747?event=search for €179.90  I read somewhere here that the new Meshify would have better airflow and is cheaper, so I'd likely go for that one.

 

Extra HDD cages

https://www.megekko.nl/product/4058/1014724/Inbouw-Brackets/Fractal-Design-HDD-Drive-Tray-Kit-Type-A-Black Or which ones would I need?

 

Unraid copy

Plus $89 tot 12 HDD's

Pro $129 unlimited HDD's. Probably best to start off with Pro, I was only thinking about 8 drives, but as this can be expanded easily, it might be wise?

 

Nextcloud

Needed to access the NAS remotely, but if I send links to family and friends, is that still considered 'home-usage' (and thus free)?

 

10 GB UTP card for PC

https://www.uptimed.nl/producten/netwerkkaarten/10g-workstation-rj45-netwerkkaart?gclid=CjwKCAiAiML-BRAAEiwAuWVgguyO_rGdV8ovrcinbYeySEYY157Sr-SIgn_gY72PZUyJydg0m0AcTxoCDhoQAvD_BwE 69€ 

Or ASUS XG-C100C networkadapter for €94.90 https://www.alternate.be/ASUS/XG-C100C-netwerkadapter/html/product/1359705?event=search  

 

10 GB Adapter thunderbolt for Dell XPS15 laptop (might not go for that straight away).

https://www.owcshop.eu/catalog/product_info.php/thunderbolt-ethernet-adapter-p-1981 €125 ex btw 

https://www.amazon.nl/SoNNeT-Technologies-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Ethernet/dp/B07BZRK8R8/ref=sr_1_13?adgrpid=100439435658&dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAiML-BRAAEiwAuWVggmH0i73IcNjjIjkLRdBJxgGNSWDgtcvSRqdGaq6heIPI3zwN1JDhtBoCkVcQAvD_BwE&hvadid=471040886610&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1001052&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=16939062064498572681&hvtargid=kwd-439660296901&hydadcr=16564_2060273&keywords=usb+c+10gb+ethernet+adapter&qid=1607545931&sr=8-13&tag=nltxtgostdde-21 181€ 

 

 

10 GB Switch

https://www.routershop.nl/tp-link-jetstream-t1700x-16ts/pid=53352 €900

[Ford Prefect]

...not going to comment on the other hardware but regarding 10GBE support in unraid, be aware that this is fairly new.

You even might have to resort for using the beta, as it comes with more/newer drivers.

For most, Intel based cards work best, as well as ConnectX-3 (mellanox) ones.

Thunderbolt, I am not aware of...AFAIK these only work in Ethernet-Mode (if at all).

 

Do you really need a 10GB-T Switch? Running Fiber-Patchcables is over all cheaper and produces less heat.

Tranceivers and DAC/AOP cables are best here: https://www.fs.com/de-en/

Anyway, I'd rather recommend a Switch CRS-model (not CSS) from Mikrotik.

These are the sweet spot in terms of bang for a buck, like this: CRS312-4C+8XG-RM -> https://www.routershop.nl/mikrotik-crs312-4c-8xg-rm/pid=64439

Seeing that you are based in a EURO Zone, this shop seems also quite expensive, compare: https://geizhals.de/mikrotik-routerboard-crs300-dual-boot-rackmount-gigabit-managed-switch-crs312-4c-8xg-rm-a2154097.html?t=alle&plz=&va=b&vl=de&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&hloc=eu&v=e&togglecountry=set  but I do not know the market prices in your country.

Some of these shops ship internationally and the listed price is incl. VAT already.

[DrBobke]

Hi Ford Perfect, Thank you sooooo much for your reply! Computer Hardware is hard for me to understand what I really need and not to have overkill. I was first looking at Qnap and Synology and the option there for 10 GBe was heavily pushed forward.  Couple that to me wanting to edit RAW images in Lightroom straight off the NAS, I thought it would be best to have more speed.

 

IF it is fast enough to have cat5e UTP everywhere (which I have now too), or even in linkover or load balance (whatever would work better for my situation), is good. I'd rather not have to make the extra investment of cat7 or 8 cables, switch, etc. That said, I did see some reviews that with 10 GBe NAS and PC port, using cat5e cables, reports are easily 5 GB, which sounds tempting.

I'm wanting to build a future-proof machine, as good as possible, but I don't want to spend €1.000 for a CPU for example, which is then only using 10% capacity at max.

 

The Fibre-Patch cables are the DAC/AOP cables you mean, in stead of the RJ45 plug? I have cat5e wired everywhere and I think the Unraid will get it's place on the 3rd story of my house, whereas my main computer is on the 1st floor, there are two switches (Gigaswitch) in between that, one TPLink T2600G-18TS 2.0 (managed) and the other a Sitecom gigaswitch (I think : https://www.sitecom.com/be-nl/19-network-giga-switch-24-port/ln-143b/p/1501). I would say there is about 10 meters from my desktop to the TPLink cat5e Ethernet and then a 30 meters (?) from that to the Sitecom Switch upstairs. The NAS would be very close to that Switch. 

Should you be able to recommend any other hardware for my build, or can point me in a direction where I can find more current hardware recommendations for my unraid build, that would be amazing!

[Ford Prefect]

the "problem" with 10GBE over copper wires is, that the electronics chipset currently needs a lot of power. Hence a Switch full of 10G RJ45 connections is producing heat and therefore noise. Compare the energy efficiency of a RJ45-T chipset today to a 1G-chipset from 1990 or so.

A 10G connection based on fiber will use a tenth of that energy, like a 1G Copper Card today.

Based on what you describe is, that you want a 10GB backbone link, based on cat5e coper wires.

If the cables has been deployed correctly including shield and the direct link length is under 10-15m, a link speed of 10G is likely but not guaranteed. 

More likely is 5G...2,5G is almost guaranteed.

So yes, this can be done....just decide if you want to migrate every network-port to 10G or go forward a bit slower, like start with a smaller switch at each endpoint. The connection to devices in the same room, a fiber-patch"cable" can be used, instead of RJ45-T. But for this, switch and Network card would need SFP+ ports and you will deploy tranceivers where needed. transceivers can be found on fiber and RJ45-copper variant. Just be aware that in a passive switch, you cannot put too many 10G-RJ45-T transceivers inn the SFP+ ports (beacuse of heat generated...at best every second port only)

Like this: 

Switch: https://mikrotik.com/product/crs305_1g_4s_in or https://mikrotik.com/product/css610_8g_2s_in (CSS model, lightweight firmware, but OK for most uses, including VLANs - cheap with 2xSFP+ slots, hence ok to drive one up-link and another 10G link, besides 8x1G)

10GBase-T Tranceiver: https://mikrotik.com/product/s_rj10 for up/downlink over cat5e between switches

10G-Fiber Transceiver: https://www.fs.com/de/products/74668.html and fiber-patch: https://www.fs.com/de-en/c/fiber-patch-cables-261?om3-50-125-mmf=20592 for connecting NAS or desktop to switch

 

2 hours ago, DrBobke said:

Couple that to me wanting to edit RAW images in Lightroom straight off the NAS, I thought it would be best to have more speed.

 

This can impose a problem.

Due to the unique nature of how unRaid data array (no striping) is build, the NAS performance for writing is much slower than that of single disk.

And in reading, as each file is fully stored on a single disk on the array, will only be as fast as that of the single disk.

There is an option to use a cache disk/pool, preferably build on flash based NVMe-PCIe (not SSD interface) "SSD"-disks for writing.

While the file is still under access or until a mover process has moved the file off the cache onto the array, also reads will be faster as the speed of the cache disk will be the limiting factor.

So be aware, that this feature, especially in your Use-Case when working with large or small sets of image files could be a limiting factor or even not give you what you expected, as you *may* not be able to saturate a 2.5G link.

[Ford Prefect]

On 12/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, DrBobke said:

I have been using a NAS for about 10 years now (NASDeluxe 7bay, 2700T),

[...]

 

Since I am a professional photographer, I want things to run smoothly and would be great to edit off the NAS from both my laptop and my desktop.  Next to that, it would be great to share specific folders with clients (Nextcloud I have already found), so they can download their images too and I can use it during client meetings to show my work, slideshows, etc.

Since I want to futureproof, I would like a NAS with at least 8 bays, so I have lots of storage going forward. Ideally,

I'd not go the route to use unraid as an all-in-one-solution in your (special) case.

 

In these 10 years, did you experience some files go bad? I guess so.

But have you ever heard of bit-rod and about ECC Hardware and Copy-on-write Filesystems?

Based on your current hardware, I guess you did not.

 

As your photos are your business and obviously storing a lot of them safely is part of that, I'd rather suggest for you to go for Server Grade Hardware, with ECC-RAM and a copy-on-write Filesystem, like ZFS (or BTRFS - unRaid offers the use of BTRFS, but my personal opinion is, that BTRFS is not mature enough for business critical data.).

So, if I were to be in your shoes, I'd go for a ZFS Appliance as NAS, like napp-it: https://www.napp-it.org/downloads/linux_en.html

 

In your special usecase, if you want unRaid, I'd use an unRaid Server with larger Disks only for Backups or "cold store" and service Apps (like nextcloud) on a cache pool, but not live handling your photos. Use a specialized "NAS" or Desktop with NVME-PCIe Disks and smaller DIsks as "hot-store" for the Performance part of your work.

But I am also not a photographer and can only anticipate how your workflow really looks like.

 

Background: as capacity of Disks has increased much in the recent past, the URE of Disks has not in a same manner.

Also see: https://www.servethehome.com/raid-calculator/raid-reliability-calculator-simple-mttdl-model/

"Normal" HDDs, 3-4TB used to have a URE (unrecoverable read error rate) of 10^14...more modern HDDS with 10-18TB only have an URE of 10^15...see also https://serverfault.com/questions/812891/what-is-exactly-an-ure#812906

In short: the more you perform a read from a disk, statistically an URE will occur. Smaller disks are statistically more safe.

So in your hard working machine use smaller disks and in a "cold store", with fewer reads, you can more safely resort to larger disks.

[Peterca]

@DrBobke hi,

I'm about to build a good machine. Can you tell me what hardware you ended up with?