Norco 4020 vs. 4220?

[Torquewrench]

In the market for a new case, was leaning towards the 4020, now I see folks using the 4220. My read is it would require new controller(s), cables, maybe a new motherboard to go with the controllers, all for the benefit of SAS vs. plain sata cables. Am I reading the situation right? Any reason I'm missing I would pay $50 more for the 4220 and all the additional cost for the items mentioned if I'm happy with my SATA setup?

 

Thanks,

 

Phil/TW

[Rajahal]

I voted for the 4220.

 

5 SAS-SATA breakout cables are needed for the 4020 (which means 5 connections at one end and 20 at the other), whereas 4 SAS-SAS cables and 1 SAS-SATA cable are needed for the 4220 (5 connections at one end and 8 at the other).  Hence, the cabling in the 4220 is much neater and easier to manage.  This should also help with airflow.

 

The difference in price is somewhere between $50 and $100.  You'll need add-on cards (such as the SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8) for both setups to get to 20 drives.  The main difference will be if you buy SAS-SATA breakout cables, which run about $15 each, or SAS-SAS cables, which run about $20 each.  Personally I think the cleaner cabling is worth the extra cost, but your priorities may differ.

 

In either case, if one cable goes bad you are out 4 drives until you can get that cable replaced.  You shouldn't lose data permanently in this situation, but you will be without your data for a while (since unRAID can't start with 4 drives missing).

 

The 4220 also generally comes with a free gift of some sort.  The current offer of a free DVD drive isn't too exciting, but if you wait a bit you may see something nicer.  I paid $350 for my 4220 and it came with an Asus server motherboard that retailed at $185.  That was a worthwhile gift.  I've also seen it ship with a free 1 TB drive.

 

Keep in mind that both the 4020 and the 4220 are LOUD.  Really loud.  They sound like jet engines.  So if you care at all about noise levels, plan on replacing the fans or even the whole fan plate.  Supposedly Norco will be selling a new fanplate for the 4220 for around $15 that will accommodate three 120 mm fans within the next few months, but it is not available yet.  I'm in the process of modding my fan plate with an angle grinder so that it can take three 120 mm fans.  The server is much, much quieter because of it, but it is still far from silent.

 

Also, I recommend using primarily green drives in either of these cases.  The drives are packed tightly enough that airflow isn't great.  Every 7200 rpm drive I've put into my 4220 has run in the 40-45 C range during a parity check or similar activity, both with the stock cooling and my upgraded three 120 mm fan cooling.  Granted, this is in the summer with ambient temperatures around 30 C.

 

As soon as I finish modding my fanplate (all I have left is to drill the screw holes) I plan on posting pics in the 'pimp' thread.  However, I can provide you with some pics now if you want to see the difference in cabling.

[Torquewrench]

I have a 8 sata drives plus two ATA drives (system, cache) on an 8X PCI-X sata controller now and a PCI only motherboard. I can handle the cable management, bundling is fun, but I'm not seeing any compelling benefits to overcome the expense of replacing motherboard, controller, and cabling in addition to the $50 premium of the case.

 

Regarding the noise, the case will be in the garage so I might want to upgrade to the 120mm plate for cooling but the noise won't be a problem.

 

Anything esle I should be aware of?

 

Thanks,

 

Phil/TW

[bcbgboy13]

Check out these pictures http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1119818 for 4020 and these http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1149005 for 4220. Pay attention to the backplanes.

You will notice that the 4220 has horizontal backplanes which allow for better cooling.

 

And I am not sure if you are aware that there is a new "kid on the block" - Norco 4224

Once this is out (you can preorder now with shipping moved back to Aug.31) some people may sell their old cases relatively cheap...?

 

Also you use ATA drives - these probably will have to be mounted in the motherboard area.

 

And you use a "PCI only" motherboard - if you plan to fully populate your new case soon then you may run into some very slow parity checks issue which in effect will aggravate the cooling with 4020 as all the hard drives will generate heat for an extended period of time.

[Torquewrench]

Ok, so now I'm leaning towards the 4224 like everyone else!

 

Let me make sure I have this right.

 

I can use my 8X SATA MV8 controller card and use two reverse breakout 4-into-1 SATA-SAS cables (~$15 each) to go from the controller to the backplane.

 

If I come to my senses and want sub 72-hour parity checks and decide to get a PCI-E motherboard and PCI-E SAS MV8 controller(s) then I will just need 4-lane SAS cables from these to the backplane.

 

Do I have that right? If I do then I think it DOES make sense to get the 4220 or 4224, especially if the 4224 includes the 3x120mm fanboard.

 

Thanks,

 

Phil/TW

[Rajahal]

8X SATA MV8 controller card...PCI-E SAS MV8 controller(s)

 

Just to clarify, you are talking about the same card here, right?  I ask because there are two SuperMicro cards with very similar names but with very different specs:

 

1) SuperMicro SAT-MV8 (you don't want this)

2) SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 (you do want this)

 

The first one is PCI-X and will only work on certain boards.  You don't want that.  The second is PCIe x4 and will work on most boards, but it requires special cables.  You do want that.

 

The Norco 4220 uses SAS backplanes, so you'll need the SAS-SAS 4-lane cables that you mentioned.  I'm using four of these to connect two SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 cards to four Norco backplanes.

 

You will a single SAS-SATA breakout cable if you want to use the motherboard's onboard SATA ports.  I'm using this one.

 

You will also need a motherboard that has at least two PCIe x4 slots.  I use the Asus P5BV-M, but I don't necessarily recommend it because it is pretty expensive.  You should be able to find one that would work for under $150, maybe even under $100.

 

Note that none of these cables will work in the Norco 4020.  The above will work for the Norco 4224, at least as long as they don't change the specs before the release date.  According to those specs the 4224 does use three 120 mm fans, so it should be quieter than either the 4020 or the 4220.

 

To reach the full 24 drives of the 4224, you would need a motherboard with either 8 onboard SATA ports and two PCIe x4 or faster slots, or a motherboard with 4 onboard SATA ports and three PCIe x4 or faster slots.  Either one is going to be hard to find and probably expensive.

 

 

[Torquewrench]

Yeah, I got it.

 

I have one SuperMicro SAT-MV8, so I want to make sure I can use it in a 4220 or 4224, which I think I can with the reverse breakout cable. My next controller will definitely be the SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 on a PCI-E motherboard, like you said, I need to be able to handle the 24 drives so 2 of those and some motherboard sata ports should do it.

 

Thanks,

 

Phil/TW

[bcbgboy13]

Ok, so now I'm leaning towards the 4224 like everyone else!

 

Let me make sure I have this right.

 

I can use my 8X SATA MV8 controller card and use two reverse breakout 4-into-1 SATA-SAS cables (~$15 each) to go from the controller to the backplane.

 

Yes, you can reuse your existing SATA MV8 card with 2 reverse breakout cables. In addition to this you probably will need a third reverse breakout cable to use with four of your motherboard SATA ports.

 

 

[bcbgboy13]

 

To reach the full 24 drives of the 4224, you would need a motherboard with either 8 onboard SATA ports and two PCIe x4 or faster slots, or a motherboard with 4 onboard SATA ports and three PCIe x4 or faster slots.  Either one is going to be hard to find and probably expensive.

 

The most economical way to fully use 4224 with new parts IMHO will be with any el-cheapo motherboard with 6 SATA ports, one cheap 2 SATA ports PCI-e x1 on even PCI controller (less than $20) and two reverse breakout cables.

The remaining 16 drives will be attached to two of the Supermicro  PCI-e x4 cards with the help of four SFF8087 to SFF8087 cables (good quality sold on Ebay for $5 plus shipping)

 

[Rajahal]

 

To reach the full 24 drives of the 4224, you would need a motherboard with either 8 onboard SATA ports and two PCIe x4 or faster slots, or a motherboard with 4 onboard SATA ports and three PCIe x4 or faster slots.  Either one is going to be hard to find and probably expensive.

 

The most economical way to fully use 4224 with new parts IMHO will be with any el-cheapo motherboard with 6 SATA ports, one cheap 2 SATA ports PCI-e x1 on even PCI controller (less than $20) and two reverse breakout cables.

The remaining 16 drives will be attached to two of the Supermicro  PCI-e x4 cards with the help of four SFF8087 to SFF8087 cables (good quality sold on Ebay for $5 plus shipping)

 

 

Good point, that would be a lot cheaper.