Rajahal
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Posts posted by Rajahal
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I just got home, and I'm going to start working on this now.
The clicking begins immediately upon power up, before the BIOS or OS finish loading. Both the desktop (where the drive works) and the server (where it doesn't work, booting from a HDD, not from the unRAID flash drive), are running Vista x64, so no difference in OS. I haven't formatted the drive as whatever unRAID likes yet, its still formatted NTFS for Windows.
I haven't run any SMART diagnostics yet, I'll do that soon.
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Thanks for the near immediate reply, damn you guys are fast.
The same SATA data cable and SATA power cable work for other drives in the unRAID server, just not for this particular one. Also, the 500 GB drive that failed can take either standard SATA power or 4-pin molex power. I tried both (individually, of course) in the unRAID tower, and both failed. I tried both in the desktop, and both worked. So the power at least doesn't seem to be the issue. I've tried different SATA ports on the unRAID server (both on the motherboard and on my Promise card), and I get the same failure on all ports. I haven't actually tried switching out the SATA data cable itself, since like I said it works fine for other hard drives, but I can try that when I get home tonight.
On a separate, unrelated note - I bought a new CPU (2.7 GHz Dual Core AMD Black) at Fry's for my desktop, and when I opened it, two of the pins were bent slightly. I used the tip of a mechanical pencil to straighten them out as best I could. When I dropped it into the AM2+ slot on the motherboard, it didn't slide in cleanly, but instead needed a little bit of pressure to fall into place. Also, when installing the CPU heatsink/fan, I accidentally smudged the thermal compound, so it doesn't have a nice, clean surface anymore. There might be a small air pocket between the heatsink and the CPU. Do you guys think these problems are serious enough to warrant me returning the CPU and exchanging it for a new one? Bear in mind that I live about 2 hours away from Fry's, so it isn't a matter of just popping into the store for the exchange, it will be somewhat of an ordeal. The computer works fine and is quite fast right now, and the CPU temp (according to the mobo's hardware diagnostics screen during bootup) is between 20 C and 35 C, from what I've seen. I may want to overclock this CPU in the future, so I guess I would rather deal with the problem now then have it come back to haunt me later.
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Well, I finally did it. I bought the hardware I needed to let me start my unRAID build, and let me say, I'm excited. This server has been in the works since last summer, and mishap after mishap has pushed it back until now. I messed around with it last night, and everything seems great...at least I know my motherboard and flash drive will work with unRAID. I haven't actually added any drives yet, but soon...hopefully tonight.
A few questions: during the process of building my new desktop and the unRAID server, I had another hard drive fail on me. When plugged into my unRAID server, it clicks loudly and isn't recognized. However, when plugged into my desktop it runs just fine, no clicking, and it is recognized and usable. Thankfully, I was able to get all the data off of it using the desktop. I'm perplexed, though, why would it fail in the unRAID server and not in the desktop? The unRAID server has an older motherboard, but a brand new PSU. The desktop has a brand new motherboard, but a crappy old PSU (which I will replace as soon as I can afford it).
That drive is now the second 500 GB drive I've had fail (the other was months ago, but I still haven't sent it in yet). I know I can RMA the older drive, but I'm not sure about the one that failed just recently since I bought it directly from a person, not from the company or from a retailer. Anyone know if WD will still RMA my drive?
Also, since I'm down 1 TB in storage, at least temporarily, I don't have anywhere to move my data to clear off my 1 TB drive that I wanted to make my parity drive. Instead, I think I'm going to set up my unRAID server with a 500 GB drive as a parity (I still have 2 functioning), then use only my 500 GB or smaller drives in the server, for now at least. That leaves my 1 TB and my 640 GB drives for my desktop. My question here is this: when I do eventually get my 2 dead 500 GB drives replaced and have room to clear my 1 TB drive of data, will I have any trouble swapping the 1 TB drive into the parity slot and the 500 GB drive out of it? I figure it would just be a matter of installing the 1 TB drive, assigning it to be parity, then assigning the 500 GB drive to be a data drive. Is there anything more to it than that?
So my unRAID server, as it currently stands, looks like:
-2.0 GHz Dual Core AMD processor
-4 HDDs, all 7200 rpm: 2x500 GB (1 parity, 1 data), 2x250 GB (both data).
Other HDDs that are currently in my desktop but that I hope to add to my unRAID server eventually:
-1x1TB, 1x640GB, 1x320 GB
HDDs that need to be RMA'd, then added to the unRAID server:
-2x500 GB
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That's probably a good call, thanks for the feedback.
This 4 GB "Dual Channel" Flash Drive is on sale at NewEgg today. I've never heard of a dual channel flash drive, is it worth it for an unRAID build, or will it not matter?
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Good news! I found the rails - turns out I did had them all along, I had just forgotten about them. I haven't actually tried them out yet, but I'm sure they'll work fine.
So what do you guys think, do you prefer the metal brackets or the 4-in-3 cage for adding more drives? I really only need one more slot (since 8 HDDs is my mobo's max at the moment) but I'm still thinking about getting the 4-in-3 cage (and only using 2 of its slots) just to have the extra fan. Of course I could probably just get one more metal bracket (since I now have one) and buy an extra fan for a few bucks, it would be cheaper.
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OK, I'll check that too. I forgot to look last night, so still no word.
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Hmm, OK well I hope I do have the rails and have just forgotten about them. Not that I would throw something like that away, I just don't remember them shipping with the case. If I don't have them, then hopefully I can buy them somewhere (since I would need them for that Cooler Master 4-in-3 also, right?).
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I don't remember any, no. What you see is what I've got. I'll double check when I get home tonight, though. I've never tried to install an optical drive into the case (I've got an external one, and I've never had any need for another), so I've never really run into this problem before. Looking at this picture, it seems that maybe the case was supposed to ship with those rails and perhaps mine didn't. I just never noticed because I never needed them.
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Even so, wouldn't they need to be 5.25" long (much longer than the HDD) to be able to line up with the screw holes in my Antec case's optical drive bay (pictured above)?
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Thanks for the quick responses, everyone.
Thanks for the link WeeboTech, that Cooler Master 4-in-3 looks like just what I need. Also thanks for the additional tip, lionelhutz.
I picked one of those mounting brackets up last night from a local computer store for $5 (better than Newegg's $10). Unfortunately, they don't fit my Antec case. They attach to the HDD just fine, but they don't match up with the optical drive screw holes in the case.
These screw hole locations are VERY standard and have not changed in MANY years. If this does't fit neither would DVD Drives or those 4x3 / 5x3 docks. My guess is that you installed them wrong. It is easy to get them turned around or put the wrong one on the wrong side. You might want to try again.
Haha, yeah, I was kind of thinking this too, and I wouldn't be too surprised if I did (since I've never used these brackets before). I can't see how I might have installed them incorrectly, though, since the brackets only line up with the screw holes on the HDDs one way. I could have installed them upside-down, perhaps, but even if I did, they still should have been wide enough to slide into my case's small tabs that are intended to support an optical drive, but they weren't.
Here are some close-up picture of my case's optical drive bay:
As you can see, the only screw holes are the rectangular holes to either side of the three large, circular vents. I could get the brackets to line up with one of those, but not both (it isn't nearly long enough). Perhaps my case is just weird.
Edit: I just found this picture: http://bixnet.net/images/Bracket-Display.jpg I installed the brackets just like that, though on the data/power cable end of the HDD, not the opposite end as shown in the picture. I don't imagine that would make much of a difference.
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Does anyone know of a 4-in-3 or 5-in-3 that will definitely work with this Antec Performance One P180 case? If you have one to sell, I will likely buy it.
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I picked one of those mounting brackets up last night from a local computer store for $5 (better than Newegg's $10). Unfortunately, they don't fit my Antec case. They attach to the HDD just fine, but they don't match up with the optical drive screw holes in the case. I made it work with some zip ties (and no screws), but its pretty ghetto. Are you sure they'll work in that Centurion 590 case? If so, I might consider it....how much would you sell them for? I only really need two more, but I'd be willing to buy a few spares if you cut me a deal.
Also, could you provide a link to a $24 4-in-3 HDD cage? Like I've said, the cheapest I've found is $50.
On a lighter note, I installed the Corsair PSU into my desktop PC last night, and man, its a beautiful sight. The extra-long cables mean I no longer have to use extension cables for the motherboard power, plus I only had to use a single 4 pin molex to SATA power converter, since the PSU has 6 of its own SATA power connectors. The mesh-wrapped wires help the case stay more organized too, though there's still a tangle of SATA cables between the HDDs and the mobo.
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Thanks for the replies, all informative and helpful, as usual.
Joe L.: My question was a bit different than what your reply addressed. I'm wondering how other people using Windows Vista have managed to format their flash drive, or any drive for that matter, as FAT or FAT32 since these are no longer options in Vista's disk formatting menus. The only disk formatting option is NTFS. If the solution is to use a computer running Windows XP that's fine since I have access to one, but I'm sure someone else running Vista has encountered this problem and found a way around it.
WeeboTech: The Centurion 590 is indeed a slick case for an unRAID build, but it only supports 4x3.5" HDDs out of the box (using the included 4-in-3 HDD cage). So wouldn't one need to purchase many more of those 4-in-3 HDD cages to be able to use all of the available slots for HDDs? Considering those cost about $50 each, that doesn't seem very cost effective. If only those 9x5.25" optical drive bays were all 3.5" HDD bays...if that were the case I would purchase it in a second.
I did buy the higher quality Corsair PSU, it should be arriving in the mail today. I've also received the 1 TB parity drive, so I've made substantial investments in this unRAID server already, hence I'm committed to building it. I'll probably have to wait for another paycheck or two before I can actually go through with the build (mainly so I can afford to build my replacement desktop PC, since I'm reusing many components from my current desktop). I think my only other purchases for the unRAID server will be 4 GB of cheap RAM (I might as well keep my better quality RAM for the desktop), and of course the unRAID license. I'm still quite excited about this project, and I can't wait to get it started. Thanks again for everyone's help and advice.
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I took a closer look at that Corsair PSU, and yeah, I think I'm going for it. 6 SATA power cables, plus the extra-long mesh wrapped cables are very slick and should be a pleasure to work with. It will be my one little splurge for the unRAID build, since I'm going ghetto and reusing all the other parts. Plus its only about $10 more than the Antec one, after the mail in rebate at least. MIRs in general are kind of a pain, but Corsair's are straight forward and they do follow through with them...I've gotten them for both my Corsair RAM ($25 after $30 MIR) and a Corsair 16GB thumb drive ($20 after $20 MIR), though they took a few months to arrive.
Thanks for the info on rails, that makes more sense now.
As for the number of drives, I think 9 or 10 will likely be my maximum, more based on space constraints in the case than on need. Hence, the Corsair PSU should be perfect. Once I max out my case with as many drives as it can hold (6 at the moment, but I'm hoping to build some kind of rack that will allow 3-4 more), I'll start replacing my smallest drives (250 GB at the moment) with 1 TB drives, and then find people to whom I can sell or give the smaller drives.
I was just looking at the USB Flash Drive Preparation page, and it says the first step is to format the flash drive as Fat32. I'm running Vista x64 on my desktop, and if I remember correctly, Vista no longer lets you choose Fat32 as an option - it defaults to NTFS. Anyone else have this problem? I can always use my girlfriend's laptop (running XP) to format it, so no big deal, I was just wondering.
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JRS - Thank you, your explanations are crystal clear. I will look into Corsair and Antec EarthWatts PSUs and I'll probably just go for the best value. By my calculations, 500W should be more than sufficient, and will allow for the future addition of HDDs (30W/HDD * 8 HDDs = 240W, and I figure the mobo, cards, etc. can't use more than 260W). Also, would you mind explaining what rail power supplies are, or how they are better than standard PSUs? I'm looking at a few Antec PSUs on Newegg right now, and I'm guessing more rails are better? Sorry for the noob questions, I've known for a while that certain PSUs are better quality than others, but I didn't know that there are other specs to look at besides the wattage.
What do you think of this 430W Antec EarthWatts PSU? Seems like a reasonable price for a quality PSU...especially compared to this 450W Corsair PSU.
Thanks for the info on NICs and PCIe, that's good to know. Here's the newegg specs page for my mobo, can you tell from that if the NIC uses the PCIe or PCI bus? If not, where do you find that info?
I will make an effort to connect all of my most commonly accessed drives (movies, TV, music, etc.) directly to the mobo (it has 4 ports, so it shouldn't be a problem). I do plan on streaming all of my video from the unRAID server, so stuttering video is a concern of mine. I also plan on seeding (not leeching) torrents from all the drives in the unRAID array, so if this would cause streaming video to stutter, it may prove problematic. In my current desktop I haven't had any trouble with seeding and video playback from the same drive, so I figured it wouldn't be a problem with an unRAID server either. I doubt I'll be doing any scheduled backups, and if I do I'll schedule them for 3 am or sometime when I won't notice them.
I like the idea of alternating drives between the mobo and PCI, I'll give that a try. I'm thinking something like: 1 TB parity on mobo, 750 GB TV drive on mobo, 320 GB documentaries drive on PCI, 500 GB movies A-S drive on mobo, 250 GB concerts and music videos drive on PCI, 500 GB movies T-Z drive on mobo, 500 GB music drive on PCI, any additional drives on PCI (since all the mobo slots would be used up by this point). I'm also thinking that streaming music through the PCI bus will be less problematic than streaming video through the PCI bus due to the relative file size and complexity differences. Is that reasonable?
Edit: I just realized, concerning this bit, that part of the beauty of unRAID is that it essentially combines all my drives into one big drive, so I will no longer need to think of single drives dedicated to movies, music, etc. Still, is there some way I can make more complex data, such as video, favor the theoretically faster drives connected directly to the mobo? I imagine that anytime I add new data to the unRAID server it will be placed in the first available HDD space, so there will be no preference between PCI and mobo connected HDDs. Will this be a problem, especially concerning streaming video?
The parity check only needs to happen once when I first build the unRAID server, then again each time I add a new drive, correct? If that's the case, then like you said, under 12 hrs is fine. Expandable storage and flawless video streaming are my primary concerns, but I am interested in better simultaneous access as well. Better simultaneous access is only worth maybe $50-100 more to me, so if it requires a $300 PCIe card, then I can do without it, for now at least.
I'm glad I fortuitously chose the perfect parity drive. I've never had any problems with my computer running hot, though I've never actively monitored the temperature either. I trust my beautiful Antec case and its 3 TriCool fans implicitly. I was lucky enough to catch that case on sale for $100. I still haven't decided if I will use that case for my unRAID server and buy a new one for my desktop (which is reasonable, since that case holds 6 HDDs natively, and I could buy a 3-in-5 cage to bring it up to a 9 HDD capacity (my mobo and PCI card only supporting 8 HDDs, of course) or if I should use my piece of crap backup case that I have laying around for the unRAID, since it seems like kind of a shame to tuck that beautiful, quiet case away in a closet. My piece of crap case only holds 4 HDDs, though, so I would still need a 3-in-5 cage or some other ghetto-rigged solution. I'm considering bribing some engineering friends to help me build a simple rack that would allow me to stack a few HDDs in the optical bay of either case...
WeeboTech - Thanks for the feedback, I am going to try to reuse as many parts from my desktop as possible. It seems that I will be able to use the mobo, CPU, maybe some of the RAM, the PCI to SATA card, and all but one of the hard drives (just have to keep the one as a local drive). As I mention above, I'm planning on building the unRAID server with 7-8 drives initially, so I think that justifies the upgrade from 512 mb to 4 GB of RAM, at least.
I didn't even know hacks or add-ons were available for unRAID, what should I look at? Anything that is definitely worth doing?
All - Thanks for putting up with my excessively long posts.
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As far as I know, as long as you don't assign a drive, nothing happens to it. But you have backups... right?
Backups of my 4 TB of data? Um, no. That's why I want an unRAID server in the first place, for data loss prevention, among other things. I'll just unplug all my most important HDDs and try it on a junker, that should prevent catastrophe.
Good to know about the PSUs not wasting electricity, I didn't know that. I plan on my unRAID server running 24/7, or at least close to that, so I think a quality PSU is justified, as you and the others have suggested. What would you recommend for wattage and brand name? I've heard good things about Sparkle PSUs...
Regarding RAM, hell I got the 2x2GB Corsair RAM that I list above for $25 (after a mail-in-rebate). I agree, even if I pay $40, why not. I just wanted to make sure that I will actually notice the difference when browsing my files, and it sounds like I will. I probably will go for Dual Channel, even though, as you say, its a non-issue. It usually doesn't cost any more, so again, why not.
Regarding your first listed item, "1) Quality NIC that is on the PCIe bus (a fair number of motherboards with Gigabit onboard still have that port on the PCI bus - so check that)" - I don't think I know what that means. I understand that running 4 HDDs through a PCI slot will be slower than running them through a PCIe slot, but a PCIe to SATA controller card is also far more expensive, right? I already have the PCI to SATA Promise card that I list above, and I would like to use that if possible, and not shell out any more money. On my current desktop, I still get full 3.0 Gb/s transfer rates between all my HDDs, even the ones on the PCI card, so it doesn't seem to affect the performance in any way that I can tell. If I'm wrong, though, please enlighten me.
All my HDDs are 7200 RPM, so I guess they won't be as efficient as they could be. I just ordered a WD 1 TB drive, also 7200 RPM, that claims to be 'green', though I'm not sure if it will actually have an impact on the system's power requirements.
That reminds me of another question. I'm planning on making that 1 TB drive my parity drive so that I have the option of adding more 1 TB drives in the future. My next biggest HDD is 750 GB, and all the rest are 500 GB or below, so I will be essentially wasting 250 GB until I add another 1 TB drive to the array, correct? That's something I can deal with, I just want to make sure.
Edit: Haha, perfect! The 1 TB HDD I bought yesterday is the exact one you mention! That was lucky. I just went for it because I knew I would need at least one new HDD for this unRAID build, and Newegg had it on sale for $99.99.
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Thanks for the comments, guys, they are very helpful. Just checking, as long as I don't assign any of my drives, I'm not at risk of losing any data when performing the mobo check, right?
You are right about the PSU, RobJ, it is very cheap and probably could use replacing. I plan on my unRAID server sporting at least 6 HDDs (again, all SATA II) to start, and I will likely upgrade to 8 or more in the future (I'm getting a Pro license). Considering that I don't want to overpower the server and waste electricity, what wattage do you recommend? I figured 400W-500W would be fine (since my homebuilt PC easily powers 8 HDDs + 2 PCI cards with its cheapo 500W PSU), but if I can make do with less, please let me know.
I'm curious about what NAS said about unRAID usability improvements with more RAM...how much more did you have in mind? RAM is so cheap now-a-days I certainly don't mind springing for 1 or 2 GBs, but what is the cut off where I will no longer notice an improvement? Also, does better caching translate to faster transfer, read, and write speeds? Should I bother getting Dual Channel RAM, will I notice the difference?
This will likely be a long-winded sidenote, but it might help you guys understand what my goals are with this unRAID build. I've done plenty of research, and I know unRAID is what I want to use. I also finally have the time and money to devote myself to this project (its been in the back of my mind for 6 months or more), but I still have one point of vacillation: should I build my unRAID server as ghetto as possible (reusing as many of my homebuilt PC's components as possible) and pour my money into revamping my homebuilt PC, or should I pimp out my unRAID server (essentially buying all or mostly new components) and leave my homebuilt PC as it is? For reference, I'm perfectly content with the speed of my PC (5 GB of RAM, Dual Core 2.0 GHz AMD processor, etc.), but faster is always better, yes? I figure a faster PC and slower unRAID server is the better option, since I will have to deal with the PC on a day-to-day basis, whereas the unRAID server is more of a backend kind of thing. I should only be dealing with it directly if there's a problem, or if I'm adding new drives. Of course, I want it to at least be fast enough to make use of my Gigabit network, but Gigabit LAN is common on mobo's now, so that shouldn't be a problem. I figure that Gigabit LAN will be the biggest bottleneck in the network, since all the drives are SATA II. There's also the third option of mixing and matching parts between the two - bring my PC from 5 GB of RAM down to 4 GB of RAM and give the extra RAM to the unRAID server, for example. Thoughts?
Another question: There's no benefit in using a larger capacity USB Thumb drive, such as 2 GB instead of 1 GB, correct? As I understand it, all that matters is the quality and speed of the thumb drive. I'm planning on using a generic 1 GB thumb drive that I've got laying around (gotta find it, though), but I also have a 2 GB Sandisk that I could dedicate to this project, I just figured it's kind of a waste of a decently-sized thumb drive.
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I have the following motherboard in my current homebuilt PC, and I figured that instead of buying a new motherboard for my unRAID build I might as well try to use this one (as well as a PROMISE SATA300 TX4 PCI SATA II Controller Card to double my SATAII slots) and buy a newer, faster one for my homebuilt PC.
GIGABYTE GA-M61PM-S2 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
The other components in my current homebuilt PC (and I can pick and choose which I want to use in my unRAID build) are:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2.0GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 89W Dual-Core Processor
DYNAPOWER USA DP-50X.C617 500W ATX12V Power Supply
CORSAIR XMS2 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory + CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5 (5 GB Total, I figure I'll keep all this for my PC and not waste in on the unRAID build)
I also have an extra WINTEC AMPO 512MB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) that I was thinking about using for the unRAID build, since I know it doesn't need much RAM.
Tons of HDDs, all WD or Seagate and all are SATA II.
This will be my first unRAID build, so any tips and advice you can offer me will be greatly appreciated.
Will these components work?
in Hardware
Posted
I still haven't done the SMART checks, so sorry, nothing to report there. What is really perplexing me is that this drive fails consistently in my server (even with just power plugged in, no data cable), but performs flawlessly in my desktop. I've tried every combination of cabling and motherboard/promise card slots, and nothing changes. So weird.