Mac users: NFS, SMB or AFP?

[abernardi]

I built my unRAID system a few months back now and it's fantastic.  I'm having a few issues though.  My main machine is an intel iMac running OS 10.6.4, the HTPC is a Windows 7 machine and unRAID of course is the server.

 

SMB is smooth on Windows, but it takes a while for the shares to show up on the Mac.  And I noticed a lot of incomplete files when I initially transfered my media over to the unRAID from my external drives.  I thought it might be a bad drive, and I did indeed find a couple of bad drives, but still, a number of music files from iTunes turned out to be phantoms, just 24 or 32K.  I lost a bit of music because I had since wiped the other drives and added them to the server.

 

Anyway, the issue I'm having now is with iPhoto and permissions.  iPhoto came up corrupted yesterday.  I'm storing both iTunes & iPhoto on the server.  The actual media seems fine, tho I copied them over to another disk as an extra backup to be safe.  I was about to try to reconstruct the library when I noticed that my permissions in the get info box were set to: "You have custom access", with no way to change it.

 

I'm guessing this may be an SMB related issue, but I'm not sure.  I also suspect iPhoto might be having trouble writing to that disk with these permissions and that could have corrupted the database or make it think it's corrupted.  I don't know enough about this stuff, hopefully someone here can educate me.

 

I've read some threads on making AFP work and then seen others using NFS.  What I want is the most robust, safe way to use this server for media and backup.  And if it's fast enough, video editing.  But as I was just realizing in another thread, I probably still need to backup vital files to another external device.

 

THANKS.

[Auggie]

I'm using SMB on my UnRAID 4.5.4, 6+1 2TB drives (6 of which are the newer -EARS but jumpered).

 

Besides a near-heart attack when UnRAID reported a bad drive initially, after following detailed instrux to launch the server (after I let it cool down for a day to ensure it wasn't heat related), do some commands to unmount the drive, then a SMART check and finally a file integrity scan, there were absolutely no issues found.

 

All the files on that drive play just fine and have experienced no file corruptions that I am aware of.

 

The server is a dedicated media server and not a back-up NAS, though it's been on 24/7 since I built it a couple months ago.  I transfers files to and fro via a 2008 Mac Pro 2x2.8/12GB/10.6.4 and I have a Popcorn Hour C-200 that plays the media files from it.

 

The hardware is a SuperMicro X7SPA-HF, 4GB and a SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCIe 8-port SAS//SATA with break-out cable to SATA.

 

Now, you say you have truly experienced a COUPLE bad drives with the server.  Not sure if UnRAID could recover from TWO or MORE simultaneous hard drive failures, but only the data on those two corrupted drives would be lost.  Did you try doing a parity recovery with one drive, then the other (if its actually possible for UnRAID to allow a user to try recovering two drives one-after-the-other if it detects failed drives)?  If so, I don't think that would give you good data back on the replacement drives.

 

But it does concern me that you had multiple drive failures, which leads me to have doubts in the reliability of all your drives, especially in light of all your file corruption problems, which I believe have nothing to do with the networking protocol you are using to transfer files.  At the very least, it sounds like some hardware failure issue somewhere within your server...

 

EDIT: One other thing that I noticed is "buggy" under OS X is if I have too many mounted volumes of mixed media (I have 4 internal drives, one of which has 2 partitions, 2 optical drives, plus 2 FW external hard drives, 2 eSATA drives, 1 eSATA drive dock, plus a smattering of USB hard and flash drives, while the UnRAID has 7 shares available, so it is possible for me to have quite a FULL plate of simultaneously mounted volumes), OS X may get "lost" tracking and/or assigning mounting points and will inadvertently assign an existing mounting point to another media, essentially unmounting the first drive but ungracefully confusing everything that may be dependent on the media involved.  Hasn't led to corruption... yet.  But I usually have to restart either the Finder, and sometimes the entire machine for stubborn "Borg'd" mount points that refuse to unmount even via terminal commands, to get things back under control.

 

Also, yes, I do occasionally experience very long access times from Mac Pro to UnRAID.  Haven't tried my Windows 7 access times (it took forever to initially "see" the UnRAID SMB server to begin with, but now that it finally recognizes it, I haven't spent time testing it).

[abernardi]

Thanks for the response Augie.  Looks like we both got into this about the same time.

 

 

Now, you say you have truly experienced a COUPLE bad drives with the server.

 

They actually turned out to be bad drives.  I ran several smart tests and found a ton of reallocated sectors, and the data on them was getting corrupted.  I ran Joe's pre-clear script on them and one changed drastically with pending reallocation (I think that's what it was) sectors.  I then removed them and reformatted them on the windows machine and ran a diagnostics program, can't remember which, and the bad sectors came up on that test too.  These were both Samsung 1.5TB drives, very close in serial numbers, that I had removed from their external cases, thus invalidating the warranty!, tho I'm still going to try to RMA them as bare drives and see what they say.

 

At the very least, it sounds like some hardware failure issue somewhere within your server...

 

I don't think so.  I think these Samsungs were failing before I put them in the unRAID.  I've lost track now of the sequence of events, but I believe when I started putting together the unRAID, I  was ripping my DVD's to these Samsung drives when they were still in their external cases and formatted as NTFS drives and then I copied the files over to the unRAID.  I think I started noticing some corruption at that point on some of these files, the copy would fail, or the file wouldn't play, I can't remember.  When I had a better understanding of the unRAID system, I began to rip directly to the server and that's when I put the Samsung drives in the server and the errors started coming up in the SMART tests.  And then the corrupted files started to make sense.  So, that's a long winded way of saying, I think the problem was with the drives initially.

 

Also, yes, I do occasionally experience very long access times from Mac Pro to UnRAID.

 

I've read on other threads that SMB on the Mac has been seriously neglected and hasn't been updated for quite some time and that may be the issue with the slowness when initially connecting to the unRAID.

 

So, have you looked at your permissions on the unRAID?  Are they normal, or are you getting this "You have custom access" status?  I think that's where my problem is.  I've been searching around the web on this issue and it does come up fairly frequently.  I've noticed that I sometimes can't move or copy a file into another folder for lack of permissions, or I have to enter my administrator's password even though I'm in my administrator account.  It seems there's no simple way to clean this up.  I've already run "Onyx" which cleans out caches, runs all the maintenance scripts including fixing permissions, but no change.  What I have found on the web seems daunting and I'm not fully understanding what I'm finding.  Do you have any experience with this?

[Auggie]

I haven't experienced any permissions issues with SMB on my unRAID whatsoever.  Again, the only annoying thing is the occasional delayed response (for any SMB server, not just unRAID) I get when perusing a directory.  The delay can stretch over 5-10 minutes it seems!  I just patiently do other things until I see the folder window finally refresh and populate with its contents.

 

But like I said, I have not experienced anything near what you are experiencing in regards to permissions and corruption issues.

[abernardi]

Well, I'm figuring some things out.  I still don't know why I have custom permissions on some folders, but I have noticed two things:

 

1-the folders and files that I do have read/write permissions on are no changeable.  I have no lock to unlock and no other options, it just tells me in the get info box that I have these permissions.

 

2-Often, when I rename a folder on the server and try to move it, it asks for my macintosh administrator's password and then doesn't move it.  It just blinks and acts like I didn't do anything.  The contents of the folder can be moved and I can delete the offending folder.  I just create a new one.  So that's odd, but I can live with that.

[Auggie]

I am assuming you copied the files/folders over to the unRAID and did not have them created there, yes?

 

Were the files/folders created under an older OS X system version than the one you are currently using now?

 

I noticed that folders I may have created under 10.4 have a different permissions scheme than 10.5+ and sometimes I am unable to modify them.  The only recourse is to recreate the offending folder in its entirety at a higher level (like at the root) and move all the files into their "new" locations.

 

And this has nothing to do with where the folders reside (local or network shares).

[abernardi]

Well, I did just upgrade from 10.5 to 10.6, but the problem was there before.  So you're saying you have full control of permissions on the unRAID server in the get info box?  Then there is definitely something goofy going on.  

 

I'm going to run some more tests this weekend, and maybe post a new thread, since this thing has gone in a different direction.  I'm also noticing that on some folders that I recreate on the server because I can't move them, also become unmovable.  The contents will move fine, just the folders won't.  And it's usually folders that have other folders in them.

 

BTW, the iPhoto corruption was totally my screw-up--it usually is--I had created a "Photos" share and had copied the iPhoto library to the share instead of the drive, so it was spread over two drives.  When I loaded iPhoto through the share, it loaded fine.  I've since consolidated iPhoto and iTunes onto one drive, it just feels simpler that way and made an external backup as well.

 

 Thanks for the responses Auggie, any more ideas on this folder thing?

[Auggie]

Yes, I have full permissions as far as I know.  I can move, delete, copy, all things that full permissions seems to suggest.

 

Typically, if its a folder that seems to be problematic (can't move, touch, napalm, nuke nor spit at it), it might have something to do with some other resource "accessing" the folder in some way as to prevent the Finder from budging it.  Like when I'm trying to eject a volume/share and the Finder tells me it's in use, but I personally am not accessing it.  It ends up being some other process that for some reason got into it and never let go.

 

I discovered one scenario when I am using Apple Mail and I e-mail a file that resides on a share, I will not be able to unmount that share until I quit Apple Mail.

 

Do you have many third-party apps/utilities/background processes installed?

 

Right now my unRAID is offline due to a bug 4.5.x appears to be having since I installed 2 brand new -20EARS (jumpered) drives simultaneously.  Spent two days trying to get them cleared, formatted and part of the array but no go.  The issue is now being elevated to Tom, but I'm going offsite for at least a week, maybe more, and this is a bad time to happen because the unRAID is full and I needed to get files off the computer onto the server.

[abernardi]

Yah, I've been following your thread.  But it looks like you got what you need at the moment, so that's good.  I think you're right about something else holding onto the folder.  I wonder if my HTPC is trying to hold onto it since the whole unRAID server is being accessed by it, via SMB, but no particular programs were running.  I did check some more files and folders on the server and they all have read and write permissions, but I can't change the permissions in any way.