WeeboTech
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Posts posted by WeeboTech
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I don't have that kind of setup. I.E. I have unRAID under ESX on a N54L.
I don't use usershares or a cache disk in my configuration. I figured I would post so you knew I wasn't ignoring you.
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Okay great thank you again!
I purchased this Addonics card. I'm assuming it the SIL chipset?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816318005
and this enclosure
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X26VV4/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Let us know how it works out.
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Thanks again buddy.
I am not too concerned with the internal drives running at SATA III speeds. They are all standard 3.5" hard drives in th ebox now and I am content with the speeds I am getting.
I am more concerned with the port multiplier speeds. Which card would you recommend then?
I think you mentioned it was the Syba, but do you mind linking me to it so I get the right one? You posted a link earlier in this thread I believe to an ebay auction but it has now ended.
Thanks so much once again for your help!
That particular SYBA card is no longer available. It was a SD-PEX40031.
I bought it used on eBay knowing it was not produced or available any longer.
I bought it specifically because it had 4 ports, It uses some kind of bridging chipset for the PCIe to PCI-X.
I'm not sure I would recommend that one specifically.
I moved that to my ESX host.
I'm currently using the addonics and the startech SATA III controllers in my N54L.
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Remember that UnRAID is NOT a typical RAID access scenario ... the only times when more than 2 drives at a time are being accessed are (a) parity checks/builds; or (b) if multiple clients are accessing the array at the same time and streaming/using different disks. And if the accesses are writes, and there's a cache drive, then even then it's only one disk being accessed.
Bottom line: While any port-multiplier scenario results in reduced bandwidth per/disk, in most cases it's just like Bob outlined for his Windows experience ... and you'll get very good bandwidth.
Probably the major "issue" (and whether this is an issue or just a lack of patience is debatable) is that parity checks will take longer
I'm one guy, but I'm a programmer and a power user. I alone access multiple drives simultaneously. Since the unRAID server is my file server, all my documents, music, source and downloaded files go there. At the same time I have a bittorrent laptop that is continually downloading there. Then there is the HTPC constantly reading and playing music. I don't use unRAID just as an archival server, I use it as my main file server. For me, there was an issue of latency, blocking and stuttering. Smooth coordinated access could have an impact. It all depends on usage and simultaneous access. While I have not tested parity check speeds with some of the lower performing PMP devices, 10MB/s to access the drives will surely impact your parity check speeds to the point of being unusable.
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Have you used the R622 with Port Multipliers? If so were you able to benchmark multiple drive simultaneous access?
I.E. DD from the raw drive in parallel.
I'm curious if the High Point drivers handle it as smoothly as the Silicon Image cards.
While 30MB/s simultaneous access of 4 drives isn't that fast these days, I found that multiple drive access did not choke out the other drives.
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Thank you Weebo, but it doesn't seem like that Startech is a silicone image chipset which is what you recommended?
That enclosure seems pricey. What do you think about this one?
I recommended the StarTech if you wanted/needed the 2 'other' internal drives to run at top speed. I.E. SATA III.
It's what I choose so my SSD would get 350MB/s.
It does not work well with Port Multipliers. It works, just not as smoothly when accessing multiple drives simultaneously.
I don't have an opinion on the mediasonic box.
I selected items based on performance, reliability and functionality.
I choose the sans digital box for it's internal power supply and hardware raid functionality should I choose to re-deploy elsewhere. It's really come in handy when I needed it. Have two of them.
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WeeboTech Have you read my recent reply here?
I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you on that. Perhaps try the pvscsi. I've never bench marked the network speed because I'm using wifi in an apartment building. There's allot of interference here.
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Thanks so much guys!
Can someone link me to the silicone image Syba card that you used that is low-profile? I just don't want to make a mistake and order the wrong card.
Also, I am currently using the eSata port on the back of the box for he 6th drive inside the case. So that's taken up.
So from what I understand I should not do more than one 4-drive enclosure otherwise it will be too slow correct?
Lastly, that sans digital unit is discontinued (although) I can still find it on amazon.
Do you guys still recommend it? I want to through 4tb drives in it.
There's a Promedia enclosure that seems to be cheaper. Any suggestions?
I've used these parts with success.
Addonics ADSA3GPX1-2E PCI Express eSATA and SATA II 2 Port eSATA II RAID Controller
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816318005
SANS DIGITAL TR4UTBPN 4Bay USB 3.0 / eSATA Hardware RAID 5 Tower RAID Enclosure (no eSATA card bundled)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111149
I used this for the top two internal drives so I had maximum speed. it did not perform to my expectations for Port Multiplier usage when accessing multiple drives at the same time with ESX.
StarTech PEXESAT322I PCI-Express x1 Low Profile Ready SATA III (6.0Gb/s) 2 Int/2 Ext SATA Controller Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816129101
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Choose a card that has a low profile bracket.
The other card is a Rocket point and there is a comment in the comments saying "Verified by HighPoint - the R622 does NOT support Port Multiplier (PM)"
Thanks for pointing out the need for a low-profile card. I overlooked that (I don't have one of these systems) ... and I'm surprised Sans-Digital included cards on its list that didn't meet that criteria.
As for the 622 not supporting port multipliers .... where did you see that note? I looked at the Newegg link and it's not on any of their descriptive pages, and in fact one of the reviewers noted: "... Wanted a card that supports port multiplication to just access individual drives. It wasn't clear in the specs, at the maufacturer's website, or in the reviews that this card will do anything besides RAID or JBOD, but it works fine ..." That, plus the fact it's on Sans Digital's list of "eSATA Port Multiplier" cards that they reference in their product descriptions would tend to support that it should work! [ http://www.sansdigital.com/esata-port-multiplier/index.php ] Have you actually tried that card?
I have not tried the card, I saw the comment, I cannot remember where it is.
What I can say for sure, the silicon image cards work with port multiplers. The Marvel chipsets work, but not as smoothly as the silicon image chipsests. The Asmedia chipsets work, but again, not as smoothly as the silicon image chipsets.
In my tests I would do 1 dd, then 2 in parallel, then 3 in parallel, then 4.
With the silicon image chipsets, Each successive parallel dd lowered the throughput by 30MB/s.
I.E. one test was almost 120MB/s, two were at 60MB/s, Three around 40MB/s, 4 at 30MB/s. These were my findings, YMMV.
By the end of the test, 4 drives were DD'ing at 30MB/s each at the same time with a very smooth access of data to each drive. With the other chipsets access was not as smooth. With the ASmedia Chipset, it worked by by the time I had 4 in parallel, the access was on the order of 10MB/s for each drive. Access was very blocky. I.E. When one process was DD'ing. It seemed to lock out (block) access to the other drives. The Marvel wasn't as fast as the Silicon image chipset. (from my findings years ago, current technology may be better).
I've been playing with these port multipliers ever since linux started supporting them, these are my findings from testing. There may be better cards. I can only afford so many controllers to test with. (grin).
I've used a SYBA Silicon Image 3124 chipset on PCIe x1, Addonics Silicon Image 3132 on PCIe x1 and the ASmedia SATA III PCIe x1 card on this particular box.
With the Startech ASmedia Card, SATA III and an SSD, I was able to achieve over 350MB/s on PCIe x1. With a 3TB SATA III 7200 RPM drive I was able to achieve over 190MB/s. Port multiplier speed suffered greatly when accessing multiple drives simultaneously.
Before any expenditure, I would suggest testing the eSATA port on the back of the box to see how well it performs.
The high point rocket card may work and perform well with the port multipliers. However, there still is the low profile point that has to be considered.
Someone else in the thread was exploring a 4 port card. Perhaps that card could be considered.
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Can you guys tell me which card I need to get for my n36l that will allow me to use this enclosure? I think there is one PCI-E slot available witht he n36l, correct?
There are a few cards referenced throughout the thread that should work. The safest approach is to use one of the cards on the SansDigital list of cards known to work with their port multiplier cases:
http://www.sansdigital.com/esata-port-multiplier/index.php
This inexpensive card is on the list: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115073 ... and would work in the PCIe x1 slot in the enclosure.
If your x16 slot is available, this x4 card (also on the list) would give you far more bandwidth -- you could add up to 4 of the enclosures
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115036Choose a card that has a low profile bracket. That particular x4 card from newegg will NOT fit.
The other card is a Rocket point and there is a comment in the comments saying "Verified by HighPoint - the R622 does NOT support Port Multiplier (PM)"
Choose a low profile card with a Silicon Image chipset, or the Startech model I've previously mentioned.
The Silicon Image chipsets provide the smoothest Port Multiplier Capability. They are not the fastest for single drive access, but the driver seems to be mature enough that multiple drive access is smoother.
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You may be able to use the eSATA port on the back of the N36, unless you are redirecting that internally. Then you can get a SIL3132 type card (check out mono price).
Another option is to try the eSATA port and get a PCIe x1 card for the two internal drives.
I used an ASMedia card by startech so I could have 2 SATA III ports internally.
If you go back in this thread there are some links and suggestions posted.
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The specs for the G8 Microserver have leaked!
http://www.servethehome.com/hp-proliant-microserver-gen8-specs-leaked/
"HP ProLiant Microserver Gen8 Specs Leaked
Thanks to neilt0 for posting this!!
I split the topic so it can be discussed on it's own.
http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=27514.0
Please discuss Gen 8 Microserver in the other thread
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That is the one bad thing about using a bunch of external enclosures. A much higher power draw. Not sure offhand what it is in standby. But my main unRAID setup, when I was using five external enclosures, was drawing close to 300 watts(including CPU enclosure) during a parity check with 22 drives.
But that is also higher because of the TR4M enclosures which have internal power supplies. My MediaSonic enclosures with external power supplies, that I use with my WHS, draw less power.
300 watts during a full parity check with 22 drives is not that bad.
It's what the power draw in standby that I would be concerned with while using all those external enclosures.
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The MicroServer is an odd choice for a 20+ drive machine.
I have however seen someone take out the motherboard and mount it in a very large case and that seems to be a clever idea.
My solution is to eventually migrate all my MicroServer drives to 4TB making a total of 20TB and putting the smaller drives in my large "archive" server.
Have you ever checked the "total" power usage with killawatt all the external cases when drives are in standby? I would be curious as to the power utilization.
I prefer to house most of my unRAID drives in external cases. It worked great for my WHS with 27 drives in seven external cases(plus 4 drives in the HP MSS case) and for my first unRAID where I used to have twenty drives in five external cases(now 17 in four cases and I moved the other drives inside the motherboard enclosue with the parity and cache drives). And my second unRAID is currently using fourteen drives with 8 in two external cases and six in the motherboard enclsoure).
So I wanted the N54L to be used in the location that my WHS is since it is relatively small. Although it was much larger than I realized when I opened it.
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The MicroServer is an odd choice for a 20+ drive machine.
I have however seen someone take out the motherboard and mount it in a very large case and that seems to be a clever idea.
My solution is to eventually migrate all my MicroServer drives to 4TB making a total of 20TB and putting the smaller drives in my large "archive" server.
I think it's all about space. I was going to do something similar. In my new place it's less intrusive to spread the machine and drives horizontally then to have a large tower sitting somewhere. While I have under desk space, it cannot fit a 20 drive server. I do have above desk space on my Versatable desk, but it will be too high and to heavy to lift every time I have to maintain the server.
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Let us know how you make out. I know I do not relish working inside my N54L! So the less opens the better!
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So I just turned on my N54L. So am I correct that I cannot use the eSATA port with a port Multiplier enclosure without modding the BiOS. I tried it with two enclosures and only the first drive is seen in unRAID.
As far as I know, that is correct.
I know I could not use Port Multiplier under ESX with that port either.
I cannot remember if it worked with unRAID.
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Also if you can locate this card you can have 2 internal and 2 external ports on the x1 slot.
SYBA SD-PEX40031 PCI-Express 2.0 SATA II (3.0Gb/s) / 2 Power-over-eSATA II Controller Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124038
http://www.sybausa.com/productInfo.php?iid=844
I bought a couple off eBay. These are SATA II and PCIe 1.0.
In comparison the ASM1061 Chipset supports SATA III and PCIE 2.0
I was not happy with the ASM chipset's handling of port multipliers. It was very chunky when multiple drives were accessed at the same time. It may be OK for a parity check.
If you want to use the ASM1061 for an SSD cache and Parity it will work out really well.
This is how I am using it with the top 2 drives.
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I plan to try this without modding the BIOS(Although it sounds like my speeds would suffer if I don't). I'll only have five drives inside with the fifth drive(the Parity drive) connected to a SATA port in the x1 PCI express slot. Then the rest of my drives would be in external enclosures connected to a x4 PCI express card in the other slot.
Basically my HP MSS WHS is setup in a similar fashion. A small main case with four drives and then seven external cases housing 27 drives. Ideally I would like to replace my HP MSS WHS with the N54L. Since the closet where I have these enclosures does not have space to use a larger enclosure.
Mod the bios. The internal port would then be at full speed. The external port on the back would be at full speed.
You could have the x4 on one slot, a 2 port x1 gen 2 card in the other slot.
Mod the back of the unit, put the other 2 internal SATA's to eSATA's that are modded on the back.
you would have 7 eSATA ports, 6 which are Port Multiplier capable. The 7th may work for you.
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There is real estate above the 120MM fan or by the Power connector.
You could drill and nibble out space for eSATA connectors.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-toLvKA9H7jeERZSTU0WEhHREE/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-toLvKA9H7jMkdackZHU2Y3ckE/edit?usp=sharing
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Speaking frankly, it seems like you are tying to build a larger server out of a micro server and after a while it stops making sense to go that way.
With an X4 card and 2 internal SATA ports, you can route those two outside.
There is an internal SATA port that you can use up top after you load in the modified bios.
There is an external SATA port that you can or may not be able to use with port multipliers.
I did not have success.
If you are trying to stuff a 6th drive up top, it may not make sense to go that way with all the effort involved. it's really tight inside the case.
If you went with the X4 card and routed the two internal ports up top.
then went with the X1 PCIe gen 2 card, you might be able to squeeze that 6th drive up top and have it look neat.
I can say this, on my older chenbro chassis. I was able to nibble out some metal on an unused part of the case and install the eSATA plugs, There may be some room over the PCIe cards.
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with the N54L I will also need to use the x1 PCI express slot. So is there still a way to route the cables outside with both PCI express slots in use?
Not that I know of without some case mods.
maybe you could use this and modify it to use an eSATA connector instead of the USB connectors.
Or rip them out and just use an eSATA to SATA cable. Wouldn't look all that nice.
Another choice is a case mod through the back.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998184
SYBA SY-MRA55006 5.25" Dual Bay Mobile Rack for both 2.5" and 3.25" SATA HDD, Plus 2 USB 3.0 Port
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Posting this here in case anyone finds a use for it with a multiple port controller or a neater method of routing the eSATA port back internal.
StarTech ESATAPLT2LP 2-Port Low Profile SATA to eSATA Plate Adapter
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812400005
StarTech ESATAPLT1LP 1ft Low Profile SATA to eSATA Plate Adapter
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812400005
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Which is why with 16 drives on a x4 card I can get the 30MB/s speeds during a parity check.
Note that there may be a hard limit on the number of drives you can attach to the MicroServer. I think I read on HardOCP that the limit was 12.
Having said that, just because the BIOS can't see a drive, it doesn't mean the OS doesn't also. I can't remember where it wasn't "seen".
It's probably with Windows. which needs the bios. With linux it will not use the BIOS when it comes to PMP. I've had linux/unraid detect drives that the bios did not. Although that doesn't mean it will work.
MicroServer N36L/N40L/N54L - 6 Drive Edition
in Unraid Compulsive Design
Posted
I noticed slow down when accessing multiple drives on the same eSATA cable to a Port Multiplier Box.
I did not test to multiple boxes on multiple eSATA cables. I would assume that accessing one drive on each box at a time would provide close to maximum speed for each drive. The PCIe x1 card is capable of 250MB/s in each direction (i.e. full duplex).
Keep in mind the silicon image chipset is not the fastest port multipler chipset. I believe speed is limited to DMA/100. However, it was the smoothest I've seen when accessing multiple drives on the same eSATA cable.
I do like the RC-218 card. I had one. The driver at that time was a lil slower then the Silicon Image chipset. It initialized faster i.e. UDMA/133, but it was slow accessing multiple drives. That may have changed since my tests with that card were quite a few years ago. In fact during the infancy of Port Multiplier Support in unRAID. I had also tried the JMB363 chipset with mixed results. Today's results may be very different from years ago.