Add more disks to the array but outside the case

[DrMexSS]

 

Hi!

 

My actual ring is this:

 

Case: Lian-Li PC-V354 -> Space for 7 Hard Disks :: http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=546&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=63&g=f

Motherboard: Asus P5Q-VM :: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_775/P5QVM/

----> 6 xSATA 3 Gb/s ports

----> 1 x PCIe 2.0 x16

----> 2 x PCIe x1

----> 1 x PCI

 

I have also installed a Intel/pro 1000 ethernet card in one of the PCI (I don't remember in which one now but I could change it if it's necessary). I installed this new NIC because the onboard NIC of the motherboard has the Realtek® 8111C chip and it has problems with unraid.

 

I bought that case because the server has to be in a place with height restrictions.

 

The problem:

 

I curently have 6 disks in my array (1parity +5 data) so all my sata ports are used. However, I want more space  . How can I add it without changing the case?

 

I was thinking in buying:

-Pci card with more sata ports (or eSata ports)

-A external case with sata or eSata ports (Like the lian li EX-50 :: http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=331&cl_index=12&sc_index=42&ss_index=115&g=f )

 

Will it work? Does the eSata ports work as sata ports? Same performance?

Do you recommend something different? (Another case, or approach...)

 

Thank you so much.

[DrMexSS]

 

One of the top-topic of today is about my problem! great.

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=14620.0

 

There the user Johnm says:

 

Another more expensive option that is along your same theory is to turn the second case into an external drive bay.

you can use adapters like these http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas_cables_adapters/ . a sas expander would work also if you had a lot of drives in case #2.

slightly cheaper http://www.addonics.com/products/multilane/connector.asp

you would then have 1 or 2 wires that just run from one box to another...

 

I was looking at this idea to convert a norco 4224 into a drive bay for another norco.

 

 

you might even be able to use some cheap sata to esata adapters if you only have a few drives. then run a few esata wires from one case to the second..

something like this maybe? http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040707&p_id=7638&seq=1&format=2

use a set of those OR an esata card in your unraid box and run them to the esata brackets on  box #2? this is personally untested but should work... I had done this with a 4 port board once. http://www.addonics.com/products/io/ad4esasb.asp

 

just make sure all your connections are solid.

 

So maybe it's cheaper to buy an extra regular case just for hard disks and a PSU (to avoid extra cables from the first case)

 

[ohlwiler]

That external drive case should work fine. The case you linked to does not come with a PCIe eSATA card.

Unraid supports port multipliers.

 

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=UnRAID_Topical_Index#Port_Multiplier_Support

 

There will be a loss of performance, but only during parity checks and drive expansion/rebuilds. The entire bandwidth of a single SATA II port (~300MB/s) will be shared across all of the drives in the external case during those times.

 

Here is a similar item to look at:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111166

[DrMexSS]

 

Umm.... interesting. I didn't know about port multiplier. Thank you.

 

Thank you again for the link of the Sans Digital case. It's a good offer with the eSata pci card.

 

However, in any case I will have performance loss (during parity check or rebuilding) and this is something that I don't want.

 

So, I think that something like this could be an interesting option:

 

http://www.norcotek.com/SS-500.php

 

It's a box that has a couple of power connectors and one sata connection for each drive. I know that it is an inside box (convert 3 x 5.25" drive bay into 5 x 3.25" ). But my plan would be putting it outside and to buy a pci sata controler for my unraid system. There would be 1 power and 5 sata cables from my unraid case to the ss-500 box but I don't know how to reduce this number of cables without losing performance.

[lionelhutz]

Almost all external enclosures like that are port multipliers. Someone here was using 4 of the external enclosures and the parity check speed was still reasonably decent. It might take a little longer, but why is the speed ever critical as long as it isn't more than say 1/2 a day or so?

 

I'd recommend you use a SiL3132 2 x eSATA port card in the PC and put then 4 drives in a external enclosure connected to it. Leave the second eSATA port open. That should get you decent parity check speeds in the 50Mbps range. If you need more space again, then add another eSATA and 4 more drives.

 

If you search for port multiplier you should find some threads with the speeds discussed.

 

Peter

 

 

[technojunkie]

Alternatively you could add a SAS card (like the much loved SASLP) and use a sff8088 to sff8087 plate like this one. Then you can use any sas expander chassis. Performance will be better than port multipliers, but i'm not sure by how much. One benefit is you can daisy chain sas expanders if unraid ever expands beyond 20 drives or single arrays.

 

That being said, sas expander chassis are more pricey that port multiplier cases

[ohlwiler]

So, I think that something like this could be an interesting option:

 

http://www.norcotek.com/SS-500.php

 

It's a box that has a couple of power connectors and one sata connection for each drive. I know that it is an inside box (convert 3 x 5.25" drive bay into 5 x 3.25" ). But my plan would be putting it outside and to buy a pci sata controler for my unraid system. There would be 1 power and 5 sata cables from my unraid case to the ss-500 box but I don't know how to reduce this number of cables without losing performance.

 

Why not just add a second LIAN LI PC-V354 (on sale at Newegg right now) as an external case. Much more elegant than a Norco drive cage. Run power and SATA cables between the boxes, and you'll have space for 14 drives.

[DrMexSS]

 

Thank you for your replies! 

 

Why don't combine both? Add a new lian li pc-v354 with: a power supply and hard disks connected to a SAS controler. Then install another SAS controller in the unraid case and connect both cases with just one cable.

 

Am I correct? Is it possible?

 

@technojunkie: The sas expander chassis are too expensive I think, and if I can do what I said above I will obtain the same performance. However, the possibility of having a 20 hdd unraid system is so tentative... aaaaahhhhhhh

 

 

[technojunkie]

I agree expander chassis are expensive. For your suggestion to work you could build your aux chassis with psu/drive cages and the sff8088-8087 adapter plate. If you don't use an expander you can just use breakout cables for the drives. Keep in mind that with breakout cables you're limited to 4 drives per sff cable.

If you use an expander like this one you can fill a chassis with just drives and only have 1 or 2 sff cables between your boxes.

[Johnm]

there are several ways to do this....

 

the sans digital is the easiest....

It would have a bit of a performance hit while accessing multiple drives at once in the external..

 

Since you don't want to go to a bigger case, which would be the logical solution IMO.

 

for all of the following to work, you will have to make a power hack to power up the drives (a paper clip is all you really need)

 

Expensive...

1x $100 second case (matching lan li maybe?)

1x $45ish smaller PSU

1x $100ish a SAS HBA (saslp-mv8 or an ebay LSI type, M1015 for example)

2x $9.90 SFF-8087 cables,

2x $28.88  SFF-8088 cables

2 $8.80  SFF-8087 forward breakout cables

2x $53.00  2-Port SFF-8087 to SFF-8088 Adapter

this gives you 8 more drives in a second matching lan-li

= a whopping $446.16

 

 

The best and probably most cost prohibitive would be....

1x $100 second case (matching lan li maybe?)

1x $45ish smaller PSU

1x $100ish SAS HBA M1015.

1x $9.90 SFF-8087 cables,

2x $8.80  SFF-8087 forward breakout cables

2x $29.00  1-Port SFF-8087 to SFF-8088 Adapter

1x $278 IBM expander card.... (with cables)

for a crazy... $570.70. but...!... you would be able to add 24 hard drives if you changed the external case.

this setup could let you control a Norco 4220 up to 4meters away with a case swap, breakout cables and longer 8088 cables...

(that is how we add DAS boxes to our servers at work.. sort of. we just spend a lot more and sometimes use fiber channel)

 

 

 

if you want to go totaly ghetto... (untested, but it completely sound in theory)

1x $100 second case (matching lan li maybe?)

1x $45ish smaller PSU

1x $100ish a SAS HBA (saslp-mv8 or an ebay LSI type, M1015 for example)

2 $8.80  SFF-8087 forward breakout cables

8x $1.53 http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040707&p_id=7638&seq=1&format=2

8x $5ish heavy duty eSATA cable (locking if possible)

a lot of zip ties and labels

 

This would run you $310.84 plus drives.

 

you use the onboard headers from case 1 with the adapters running them to case 2.

in case 2, you plug the eSATA adapters directly into the hard drives.

use the SAS card/breakout cables in box 1.

label everything well.

make sure everything is plugged in well...

this is the sort of thing that CAN go wrong... if your cat, kids, anaconda, etc gets behind your server... things can come loose. loose = data loss...

this is for bravest of brave...

 

otherwise a new case sounds cheaper...

 

 

EDIT:

another option, I have seen Dell perc h200 and h400 cards for $150ish on ebay with SFF-8088 ports. those will work with newer betas.

that would save you the cost of some cables and an adapter .

 

 

[DrMexSS]

ouuuu yeah! thank you for that big amount of info!

 

However, I think that a better option would be something like the norco DS-24D but cheaper and for less disks. Then connect that case to my lian-li by one or two SFF-8088 cables (I just learn this). I think that this option will give me more possibilities. Moreover, I would like a hard-disk case with less than 420 mm depth (the norco ds-24D is 480 mm). So, I will have to search for it. I think it will be difficult because the 420mm constraint is "hard".

 

Thank you for the info, I have learnt a lot.