I've been using 5 in 3's since 2007 and drive temperature has always been an issue for me. Luckily with my 15 drives I've only had 2 failures in those 6 something years.

 

I'm building out a new ESXi machine and the last thing I need to figure out is the case. I'm either going to go with the Norco 4224 or something like an Antec 1200 with four 5 in 3 drive cages.

 

I'm curious how the Norco would compare both temperature and noise wise compared to 5-in-3 backplanes. I believe the spacing in the Norco 4224 cages has a bit more spacing between the drives (which would definitely help with the heat if that's true).

 

I prefer the tower look and I'm scared of the quality control issues Norco's been having recently... but if it's cheaper AND it provides lower noise and cooler drives that's likely where I'm headed.

 

Has anyone been able to compare a Norco 4224 to a setup with a bunch of 5-in-3 cages? Any reports on temperature's and perceive loudness?

I've been using 5 in 3's since 2007 and drive temperature has always been an issue for me. Luckily with my 15 drives I've only had 2 failures in those 6 something years.

 

I'm building out a new ESXi machine and the last thing I need to figure out is the case. I'm either going to go with the Norco 4224 or something like an Antec 1200 with four 5 in 3 drive cages.

 

I'm curious how the Norco would compare both temperature and noise wise compared to 5-in-3 backplanes. I believe the spacing in the Norco 4224 cages has a bit more spacing between the drives (which would definitely help with the heat if that's true).

 

I prefer the tower look and I'm scared of the quality control issues Norco's been having recently... but if it's cheaper AND it provides lower noise and cooler drives that's likely where I'm headed.

 

Has anyone been able to compare a Norco 4224 to a setup with a bunch of 5-in-3 cages? Any reports on temperature's and perceive loudness?

 

The norco 4224 case will cool better than the same number of drives in the 5-in-3 cages.  With that being said, since the norco 4224 does not come with the 120mm fan wall it is pretty darn loud out of the box.  In any server we build for a customer we replace the default back fans with more quiet ones and we use the 120mm fan wall and quiet fans with that one also.

I have, use, and love several 5-in-3 cages (both SuperMicro and IcyDock)  ... HOWEVER, in recent builds I've abandoned the simple hot-swap feature for these  CoolerMaster 4-in-3 cages:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002

 

They have a 120mm fan in front that blows directly over the drives and keeps them VERY cool ... 6-8 degrees cooler than my 5-in-3's.  I NEVER see temps above 35, even during parity checks (with WD Greens and Reds).

 

I DO still like hot-swap cages;  and for builds of 6 drives or less I use the Lian-Li PC-Q25B, which has a very nice 5-bay hot-swap built in that's accessed from the side of the case ... which allows a 140mm fan in front to blow directly over the drives.  It also keeps things really cool.  On my small server (in that case),  with six WD Reds, temps range between 31 and 34 during parity checks.    But for high-drive-count systems, the CoolerMasters are hard to beat.

 

 

I've been using 5 in 3's since 2007 and drive temperature has always been an issue for me. Luckily with my 15 drives I've only had 2 failures in those 6 something years.

 

I'm building out a new ESXi machine and the last thing I need to figure out is the case. I'm either going to go with the Norco 4224 or something like an Antec 1200 with four 5 in 3 drive cages.

 

I'm curious how the Norco would compare both temperature and noise wise compared to 5-in-3 backplanes. I believe the spacing in the Norco 4224 cages has a bit more spacing between the drives (which would definitely help with the heat if that's true).

 

I prefer the tower look and I'm scared of the quality control issues Norco's been having recently... but if it's cheaper AND it provides lower noise and cooler drives that's likely where I'm headed.

 

Has anyone been able to compare a Norco 4224 to a setup with a bunch of 5-in-3 cages? Any reports on temperature's and perceive loudness?

 

The norco 4224 case will cool better than the same number of drives in the 5-in-3 cages.  With that being said, since the norco 4224 does not come with the 120mm fan wall it is pretty darn loud out of the box.  In any server we build for a customer we replace the default back fans with more quiet ones and we use the 120mm fan wall and quiet fans with that one also.

 

If I go with the 4224 I'd definitely get the 120mm plate and replace all the fans with Noctua's.

 

But I'm curious... why would the 4224 cool 5 drives in one stack better then a 5 in 3? In my mind, a 5 in 3 cage like the Supermicro that has a 92mm fan attached directly to the backplane would cool better then the 4224 that doesn't have a fan directly attached to the backplane. Also, the 4224 stacks the drives vertically which I would assume causes the drives to heat up a bit more as well.

 

Unless it's true that the 4224 better spaces the drives, I'm not sure why it would cool any better then a 5 in 3. I've read some reports that there's better spacing on the 4224, while I've also read that the Norco 5 in 3 caddy's can be used in the 4224 and that they're identical. I'm not sure what to believe.

I have, use, and love several 5-in-3 cages (both SuperMicro and IcyDock)  ... HOWEVER, in recent builds I've abandoned the simple hot-swap feature for these  CoolerMaster 4-in-3 cages:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002

 

They have a 120mm fan in front that blows directly over the drives and keeps them VERY cool ... 6-8 degrees cooler than my 5-in-3's.  I NEVER see temps above 35, even during parity checks (with WD Greens and Reds).

 

I DO still like hot-swap cages;  and for builds of 6 drives or less I use the Lian-Li PC-Q25B, which has a very nice 5-bay hot-swap built in that's accessed from the side of the case ... which allows a 140mm fan in front to blow directly over the drives.  It also keeps things really cool.  On my small server (in that case),  with six WD Reds, temps range between 31 and 34 during parity checks.    But for high-drive-count systems, the CoolerMasters are hard to beat.

 

I've considered that as an option. I just don't like the fact that I'd be losing those additional drives and that upgrading/replacing drives would be a pain. My current case uses three 5 in 3 cages for 15 drives total, and if I upgraded to a 12 5.25" bay case with 4 in 3 cages I'd only get 1 additional drive. That would come at better cooling and possibly a bit quieter sound. Everything has trade off's though... so this is an option if I want to stick with towers and the 5 in 3's scare me a bit with their heat.

upgrading/replacing drives would be a pain.

 

=>  It's really not.  Takes a couple minutes to pull the cage out; but then it's very simple to replace a drive.  I'd say perhaps 5 minutes total to pop the side off the case; unscrew the thumbscrew I use to hold the cage in place (you could use regular screws too);  unplug the cables;  pull the cage out; replace the drive; and then put it all back.  Maybe 10 minutes if you haven't done it before ... but once you do it, 5 minutes is plenty.

 

But I agree that losing 20% of the total capacity vis-à-vis a 5-in-3 is the trade-off you pay for the better cooling.    My FAVORITE of all times case for a high-capacity tower system was one I built for someone else a couple years ago ... and the case is no longer available.    But if you ever happen to find one ...  look at the Lian-Li PC-P80N  ==> you can mount your 5-in-3's in this case, and they'll be cooled by the 3 140mm fans mounted in the door !!

 

In terms of what you can actually buy today, if I wanted a high-drive-count tower, I'd look very closely a the Lian-Li D8000 [http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112390 ]    Room for 20 drives without any add-in cages;  with 6 120mm fans blowing directly over those drives !!    And plenty of room to add one CoolerMaster cage for the final 4 drives, if you want to get to 24.  Also not hot-swap; but individual cages for all drives, so very simple to remove/replace.

 

upgrading/replacing drives would be a pain.

 

=>  It's really not.  Takes a couple minutes to pull the cage out; but then it's very simple to replace a drive.  I'd say perhaps 5 minutes total to pop the side off the case; unscrew the thumbscrew I use to hold the cage in place (you could use regular screws too);  unplug the cables;  pull the cage out; replace the drive; and then put it all back.  Maybe 10 minutes if you haven't done it before ... but once you do it, 5 minutes is plenty.

 

But I agree that losing 20% of the total capacity vis-à-vis a 5-in-3 is the trade-off you pay for the better cooling.    My FAVORITE of all times case for a high-capacity tower system was one I built for someone else a couple years ago ... and the case is no longer available.    But if you ever happen to find one ...  look at the Lian-Li PC-P80N  ==> you can mount your 5-in-3's in this case, and they'll be cooled by the 3 140mm fans mounted in the door !!

 

In terms of what you can actually buy today, if I wanted a high-drive-count tower, I'd look very closely a the Lian-Li D8000 [http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112390 ]    Room for 20 drives without any add-in cages;  with 6 120mm fans blowing directly over those drives !!    And plenty of room to add one CoolerMaster cage for the final 4 drives, if you want to get to 24.  Also not hot-swap; but individual cages for all drives, so very simple to remove/replace.

 

Wow... that case looks awesome. I missed it because I was focused on cases with a lot of 5.25" bays, but I'm seriously considering that. Love Lian-Li as well, so that's a big plus.

 

My only concern is how the hard drive fans are positioned. They're both blowing in from the side instead of in from the front. Since they're blowing in from the side, both sides of the case would be blowing the heat towards each other. I'm pretty sure the rear fans would make up for that... but it still concerns me a bit on how the air-flow works in that case.

I wouldn't be at all concerned about the airflow => there's a nice cavity between the two drive cages; and with the 140mm rear fans, clearly the air is going to be exhausted with no issue.  You can see this very easily in the large picture at the bottom of the manual if you download that from Lian-Li's site.

 

I'm convinced that case would easily keep the drives VERY cool !!

 

By the way, as you probably noticed, the front cover "pops" off very easily, and the 20 3.5" bays are directly accessible.  If you want to convert tham all to hot-swap, you can do that with the Lian-Li BP3SATA and BP1SATA adapters (You'd need 3 of the BP3's and a BP1 for each side) for about $175.    These adapters are available at FrozenCPU:  http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g/c273/s677/list/p1/b3/Lian_Li-HDD_Enclosures_Adapters-35_HDD_Hot-Swap-Page1.html

 

So you could have hot-swap AND superb airflow 

 

If I was going to build a 20+ drive system these days, that is definitely the case I'd use 

By the way, here's a direct link to the user manual for the D8000:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/0zydhq6h4mrgfag/PC-D8000-manual.zip?token_hash=AAGTZGmSADPEFvl3KwsLPR-ZNTFUJKVfJWqBF7wRMadfZQ&dl=1

Awesome... thanks Gary.

 

I like the idea of the Lian Li Backplans. Expensive, but it would give me the hot-swap capability without having to remove any side panels to replace a drive.

 

How exactly would I power all of these drives individually? I have a Seasonic 760W PSU and it has 5 peripheral connections on it to power SATA or 4 pin molex connectors. The PSU only came with 6 molex connectors and 10 SATA connectors, so I'd need to do one of two things:

 

1.) Get more SATA connectors from Seasonic. If I got 5 of their SATA cables that each have 4 connectors, that would give me 20 drives total, but that would leave me with no additional connections and I'd be stuck at 20 drives instead of 24 (or more with PCI 2.5" SSD mounts!).

 

2.) Get more 4 pin molex connectors from Seasonic, and then get the 4 pin to SATA conversion cables. Something that changes a 4 pin molex cable to two SATA connections. This would give me, in theory, up to 40 hard drives. The downside here is all the extra adapters that would be needed.

 

I think #2 would be the best option since I could use a 4 pin power connector if/when needed in the case, and I'd be able to multiply out the connectors. I'd just need to be careful not to put too much strain on a single port of my PSU. I imaging I could do 6 SATA connections per port on my PSU. So if I have a molex connector with 4 connectors, 2 connectors would convert to a single SATA connection, and 2 connectors would convert to dual SATA connection.

I don't think you need any additional connectors if you have 10 SATA and 6 Molex connectors.

 

Each of the 3-drive backplanes requires 2 power connections ... and they can be EITHER SATA or Molex.    The single-drive backplane can also use either connection.

 

So ... 2 connections for each of the 6 3-drive backplanes, plus 1 connection for each of the single units = 14 power connections using EITHER type.  You have 16 available ... so you're fine !!  [Although you may need a few for other purposes (e.g. fans) ... so you probably need at least a couple of splitter cables.

 

Yea... but I'm not so sure on the Lian Li backplanes. Stability always comes before convenience for me, and those would be something else I introduce into my chain that isn't completely needed. 8 Backplanes means 8 more possible failure points in my build. It looks like they're new and just starting to hit the market, so there's not many reviews on them right now.

 

Have you used this first hand? Are the SATA connections a direct passthrough? I'd worry about things like the backplane corrupting data being transferred, or reporting incorrect drive information like temperature and what not.

Have you used this first hand? Are the SATA connections a direct passthrough? I'd worry about things like the backplane corrupting data being transferred, or reporting incorrect drive information like temperature and what not.

 

No, I have not used these backplanes.  But from the pictures, it's clear that the SATA data connection is a simple pass-through, and the power is almost the same (except one of the connections is split to power two drives).

 

I'd have no problem using these -- but it IS true that every connection is a potential failure point.    Note that this is much worse with 5-in-3 backplanes, which DO have some active circuitry to power the indicator lights; generally split the power to power 5 drives from 2 connections; and have circuit board traces to "move" the SATA data connections to the right spots (as opposed to just being direct connections through the board).

 

Thanks Gary... I think that's the route I'll go. Gives me a massive amount of storage, cool running drives, hot-swap ability, and the Tower look I'd prefer.

 

Side question... how would you connect the 6 120mm side fans? Would you get a fixed flow fan and connect those directly to the PSU, or maybe go with PWM fans and connect those to a fan controller? I really like the idea of PWM fans with some sort of temperature sensor that can be placed around the drives. Then, when the drives really heat up, such as during a parity check, the fans will kick in to high gear automatically. Otherwise, they'll stay on a low speed and remain as quiet as possible.

 

I could always handle that manually with a fan controller that has dials on it... but having it do it automatically would be very nice.

Hard to argue with a nice temperature controller PWM controller 

 

But quite frankly, I suspect that with 6 120mm fans running at virtually silent speeds there will be enough airflow that there won't BE a time when ".. the drives really heat up ..." 

 

My little Lian-Li PC-Q25B has basically the same arrangement as the D8000 (in miniature form, of course)  ... i.e. a 140mm fan blowing from the sides of the drives ... and my drives (3TB WD Reds) run between 31 and 34 during parity checks ... and even cooler the rest of the time.

 

Good to know... so the fan controller doesn't seem necessary then (other then the "cool" factor of course) .

 

What fan speed are you using for your 120mm fans? 1200rpm? 800rpm?

Most of my case fans are 800rpm units, but I think anything up to 1200rpm or so is very silent.

 

The fans on the CoolerMaster units are 1200 rpm, and they're VERY quiet (you can't hear them even a few inches away).

 

The 140mm fan on my Lian-Li is VERY quiet ... but they don't publish the rpm specs => they just say is has "... high air flow volume with lower RPM ...".  I'd guess it's an 800 rpm unit, but it could be a bit higher.

 

  This is the next case on my shopping list!  The Lian Li PC-343B, it has LOTS of FRONT accessible 5 1/4 drive bays, 18 in fact!  :-)  I was thinking of using 4in3 drive bays with it!

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5244/cst-472/Lian_Li_PC-343B_Modular_Aluminum_Cube_Case.html

 

http://www.xoxide.com/lian-li-pc-343b-case.html

 

 

The 343B is very similar to the D8000 ... without the 20 built-in drive cages.  Personally, I'd prefer the D8000 with the optional BP3SATA hot-swap adapters.  Much cleaner-looking; with superb airflow for the drives.

 

I have to agree with Gary. I'm really liking the D8000 for the amount of drives it can store while being able to keep them cool. With the Lian Li backplanes, I get the hot swap ability as well. I even prefer that over my current 5-in-3's because I can label the front of each drive to make it easier to know which drive I need to replace.

 

I thought about the 343B and stacking that with 6 5-in-3's for 30 drives total... but I worried a lot about the heat those would generate... not to mention the cost. I also want to be able to run a software raid 10 in Ubuntu, or maybe even a ZFS pool so I can play with that. And I wouldn't feel comfortable with 7200 RPM drives running 24/7 in a 5-in-3. Thanks to Gary's suggestion of the D8000, I can feel VERY safe running certain drives 24/7.

 

Gary - Is there a reason you choose the Cooler Master 4 in 3 instead of the Lian Li 4 in 3's?

 

Lian Li has a number of hard drive racks available:

http://www.lian-li.com/en/products-chassis-accessories/#57/1/list

 

This one looked pretty nice:

http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/ex-h34/

 

Has the hot swap ability in a 4 in 3 cage which I haven't scene before. I think a front mounted fan would cool a bit better, but I doubt that would make more then a 1 or 2 degree difference. Even supports RAID... though that's not useful for my ESXi build.

Gary - Is there a reason you choose the Cooler Master 4 in 3 instead of the Lian Li 4 in 3's?

 

This one looked pretty nice:

http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/ex-h34/

 

I simply wasn't aware of the EX-H34 when I first started using the CoolerMasters.  That IS a "slick" looking hot-swap unit !!    I agree with your comment about the fan ... I'm sure it still works very well; but would be even better if it was mounted in front => perhaps mounted to the cage door, so it swung open with the door (like the fans on the P80N case did).  But, like you, I doubt it makes more than a degree or two difference in the cooling.

 

Ordered the D8000 case the the Lian Li Backplanes tonight! I'll put together a build with a bunch of pictures once all the parts arrive.

 

I noticed in one video review the reviewer mentioned 3 120mm fans blowing in from one side of the hard drives and 3 120mm fans on the other side blowing out. I was planning on having all 6 blowing in, But I never though about trying to pass all that air through the front of the case and avoid having it go back towards the back of the case. If there was a block of some sort preventing air from going back into the case I think that would be ideal... but I'm not sure how that would work with 4 exhaust fans in the rear of the case creating negative pressure and therefor forcing air from the front to go to the back.

 

I guess a simple check would be to try both. Run a parity check and record the drive temperatures and go with the ones that give the best results.

 

Thanks again for the tip on the D8000 case Gary. I'm super excited about this new build. I wasn't very excited when I thought my only option may be a Norco 4224 which I find ugly and I don't have room in my 900 sq/ft condo to hide.

Good to know... so the fan controller doesn't seem necessary then (other then the "cool" factor of course) .

 

What fan speed are you using for your 120mm fans? 1200rpm? 800rpm?

I have a different opinion about that. I also tried to use fans with low RPMs to keep things cool - but it is quite static.

Controlling fans gives you optimized energy usage, cooling and quitness.

That being said, I now use high RPM fans and control them. This gives enough room for cooling requirement in summer with paritiy checks (1500+ RPM) - and still let them just have around 300 RPM in normal use, when most drives are sleeping - which makes them quieter than any 800 or 1200 RPM fan - plus reduces the energy consumption significantl for the fans (5 in my case, each 0.12 A @12V when running full RPM - ok, it is only a few watts ...).

A manual controller isn't a bad idea ... but I don't think the speeds need to be modified once the "sweet spot" is found.

 

In the absence of a controller, I'd use 1200rpm fans;  with a controller, I'd probably buy 2000rpm units and then experiment a bit to find the best tradeoff between temps & noise.

 

But with that case, I cannot imagine that temps will be an issue => with low-power drives I'd be very surprised if the temps ever get above 35 or so, even during parity checks, as long as the ambient is a typical air conditioned environment.