A quick question: SATA as IDE

[Pinch]

Hey!

 

I've finally started assembly of my new unRAID system (never tried it before), but I noticed something when I booted for the first time: all my disks are SATA, but they're picked up as IDE!

 

The following configuration applies:

SATA port 0+2 = IDE1 Ma/Sl

SATA port 1+3 = IDE2 Ms/Sl

 

The MB is a Gigabyte GA-G31M-ES2L.

There's only 1 physical IDE port and 4 SATAs, I haven't connected anything to the IDE yet, so I don't know how it'll manage that yet

 

There's no way of changing this through the BIOS, so willl it pose a problem for me when I get unRAID running?

[RobJ]

Even if you don't change anything, this should not be a problem.  The onboard IDE channels will be assigned ide0 and possibly ide1.  The IDE emulated SATA ports will be considered IDE1 or IDE2.  However, your BIOS should have settings for the SATA ports, perhaps 'Emulated' or 'Compatible' or 'Enhanced' or 'Native SATA' or 'AHCI' etc.  It is an Intel ICH7 board, so probably does not support AHCI, but select the highest SATA mode it supports, such as 'Native SATA' or 'Enhanced', not 'Emulated' or 'Compatible'.  Someone with a Gigabyte G31-based ICH7 board can probably help better.

[Joe L.]

Post a syslog.

 

On many motherboards, setting the SATA controllers to "Legacy" mode will result in them being seen as an IDE drive.   You might have an option you did did not consider in the BIOS.  Most times you want AHCI mode.

 

In any case, post a syslog.   If your drives end up in emulated IDE mode, they might be Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slow.

 

If your SATA drives are showing up as /dev/hd? instead of /dev/sd? then you will want them to be properly recognized.    If they are /dev/sd?, then you are being misled by the messages in the syslog put there by your chipset's driver.

 

Joe L.

[Pinch]

I'll post a syslog when I get unRAID booted...

This is a stupid question which I can probably easily figure out, but after trying to boot I get "Tower login: _". What's the defualt?

 

Btw. when I first tried booting unraid, the system just rebooted during init - trying to boot again gives me the above message - what gives?

[Joe L.]

I'll post a syslog when I get unRAID booted...

This is a stupid question which I can probably easily figure out, but after trying to boot I get "Tower login: _". What's the defualt?

 

Btw. when I first tried booting unraid, the system just rebooted during init - trying to boot again gives me the above message - what gives?

Instructions are here:

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/Troubleshooting

 

As it describes there in the wiki... login is

root

 

If you are rebooting during the init process, you might want to perform a full memory test, or at least verify the memory voltage, timing, and clock speed.  Most motherboards set them automatically, but many get it wrong for premium memory.

 

Joe L.

[Pinch]

I knew it was a lazy question Thanks!

 

Hmm, just rebooted manually (well, hard-off), but after trying to boot unraid again the system reboots... Tried to boot it again, and all was fine - it's working every second time

I know my way around a BIOS (AHCI, Legacy etc.) and how everything's supposed to look, but voltage control is something I've never looked in to... Any hints?

 

One thing though; my CPU was registered as a Celeron Dual Core @ 1.8Ghz when I first booted. I have a E1400 @ 2.0, so I changed the Clock Ratio to from 9x to 10x and it worked... or did it?

 

EDIT: Changed the clock ratio back to 9x and tried booting... It restarted itself once again On a plus ide (I think), during init I noticed the CPU getting picked up correctly (2.0Ghz)!

EDIT2: Tried booting again, but alas, another restart. Guess my "every second time" wasn't correct...

[Pinch]

Hmm, seems I can't boot at all with the clock ratio at 9x... 

[SSD]

Hmm, seems I can't boot at all with the clock ratio at 9x... 

 

I am confused - is your motherboard not propoerly recognizing your CPU and its proper multiplier?

 

or are you experiementing with overclocking?

 

If the former, you should set it on the automatic setting. If it still doesn't work, you may need to look into a BIOS update.

 

If the latter, overclocking an unRAID CPU is not needed.  It will make virtually no difference in your I/O performance.

[Pinch]

Sorry for not being clear; the Celeron Dual Core E1400 is supposed to run at 2Ghz, but the mobo sets the multiplier at 9x making it a 1.8Ghz... Not trying to overclock

I'll look into a BIOS update when I get home!

 

Btw. when the system didn't just randomly restart, I actually got unraid running at one point yesterday - the disks are getting picked up as sda, b, c etc. That's good, right?

[Joe L.]

It sounds like the disks are being picked up as SATA devices (if they are sda, sdb, sdc, etc)

 

I'd still suspect your memory... or voltage settings for your specific memory strips, if you are getting random resets.

 

What specific brand/model memory did you install?

 

Most useful to us is for you to post a syslog.

 

Joe L.

[SSD]

Sorry for not being clear; the Celeron Dual Core E1400 is supposed to run at 2Ghz, but the mobo sets the multiplier at 9x making it a 1.8Ghz... Not trying to overclock

I'll look into a BIOS update when I get home!

 

Btw. when the system didn't just randomly restart, I actually got unraid running at one point yesterday - the disks are getting picked up as sda, b, c etc. That's good, right?

 

Most CPUs have their multipliers locked.  They cannot be changed by the motherboard.

[Pinch]

Most CPUs have their multipliers locked.  They cannot be changed by the motherboard.

Well, changing the multiplier in the BIOS changes how the CPU's recognized during post, but not during unraid boot.

 

Even after updating the BIOS the restarts keep happening. Right now I can't get it booted at all! As I have 2x1024 blocks of ram, I tried using just one at a time in its own channel; in both cases unRAID could run on the first boot after disassembly, but has been unable to run hence forward! Weird...

At least I got a syslog when the system would actually boot, but I can't imagine how it can be useful as it's generated from a successful boot... ?

 

I really hope this can be figured out! I always seem to have problems with my hardware even though it's brand new

 

The full system specs:

GigaByte GA-G31M-ES2L

Celeron Dual Core Model E1400

Kingston HyperX - 2x1024 MB DDR2, PC6400 DDR2-800, CAS 4-4-4-12 - KHX6400D2LLK2/2G

 

2 x WD Caviar GP 10EADS

1 x Some old 320GB WD

1 x Asus CD-ROM (that's just temporary!)

 

There's a line skipped in the attached syslog - when the restart happens, this is the last line I can see before the screen goes black.

[Pinch]

Okay, so now I've tried a third ram block (1GB, don't know the vendor), and once again it booted the very first time, but can't now!

I've also tried a couple of older versions of unraid, but the problem prevails.

 

I guess the mobo is defective in some way... ?

[Joe L.]

Okay, so now I've tried a third ram block (1GB, don't know the vendor), and once again it booted the very first time, but can't now!

I've also tried a couple of older versions of unraid, but the problem prevails.

 

I guess the mobo is defective in some way... ?

It probably has nothing to do with linux versions, but at least you verified that.  It is most likely hardware related.

 

Based on the kingston memory you listed, you should have the timing set to 4-4-4-12 at 2 Volts.  The data sheet seems to say it will work at  677 MHz at 1.8 volts at 5-5-5-15 timing.    How do you have the memory configured?

 

Next, are all the boards/connectors seated properly?  Is your power supply up to the task?

 

Last, This is going to sound stupid, but...

Do you have a heatsink in the CPU?  If yes, did you use heat-sink compound?  If yes, did you use much more than the amount the size of a grain of rice?  (There are descriptions on the CPU manufacturer's sites showing how much heat-sink compound to use and how to spread it, and how to use it properly.  Are you familiar with those sites?)

 

If the CPU is running really hot, anything is possible.

 

Joe L.

P.S. I apologize if this is all second nature for you... I've seen all levels of experience here asking questions.

[Pinch]

The E1400 was bought retail, so I just use the cooler that came in the box for now... It had some compound already on it, so yeah, I use it

Can't imagine the CPU is running too hot.

 

PSU is 500W so I assume it's good.

There are very few connectors with my current hardware, but I have double checked 'em.

 

When I built the system, before venturing in to unRAID territory I installed Vista just to check if everything was working as intended (yeah, I see the irony!) - it seemed that way, but I didn't do any real testing except for Vista itself

 

I regard myself as a quite experienced user and I usually know my way around hardware, but when it comes to Linux, I'm lost - I've got no idea where to start searching if anything goes wrong or is causing problems, so I will end up asking stupid questions

 

Based on the kingston memory you listed, you should have the timing set to 4-4-4-12 at 2 Volts.  The data sheet seems to say it will work at  677 MHz at 1.8 volts at 5-5-5-15 timing.

I gotta admit I don't know what this means, but I can't find anything in the BIOS that even resembles these options

 

I think the deal-breaker is the fact that even with a third and completely different ram block, I still get the crash at the exact same line

[Joe L.]

Based on what you've said, I'd give a few of the boot codes as described in the wiki a try.

 

See:

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=1176.msg15647#msg15647

 

and here

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=1676.msg11412#msg11412

 

and here:

 

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/Boot_Codes

 

Always stopping at the same point in the boot process does not seem heat related at all. 

 

Joe L.

[Pinch]

I just don't understand how the problem can come and go; sometimes I can boot, sometimes (most of them) I can't.

 

I'll give the boot codes a shot when I get home! Thanks!

It doesn't seem like other users of this motherboard have any of my problems, though...

 

... isn't it possible to get a clue as to why the problem is ocuring by looking at my syslog and the last line I can see before it restarts? What's it doing at that exact moment?

 

Btw. I think this thread should be renamed any moved to the Hardware forum - the original topic was just a quick question, I didn't expect these problems

[RobJ]

The syslog looks good, hard to tell what is init'ing at the point of crash/restart.  At that point, it has finished the PCI and ACPI setup, perhaps beginning identification of attached devices.  Of course, the syslog at that point when restarting might look different.

 

Try unhooking all of the drives, including the SATA CDROM drive, and rebooting.

 

It is also still possible there is a problem with the power supply.

[Pinch]

Unhooking all the drives made it boot the first time, but never again

 

I'm gonna try assembling the whole thing outside the chassis; it it safe to do so on the anti-static "bag" I got the MB in? Or better yet, the foam under it?

[Joe L.]

Unhooking all the drives made it boot the first time, but never again

 

I'm gonna try assembling the whole thing outside the chassis; it it safe to do so on the anti-static "bag" I got the MB in? Or better yet, the foam under it?

Nothing conductive, so nothing metal, or silver reflective coated.

 

Nothing with "static cling"  (So I'd stay away from foam)

 

have you tried re-seating the CPU yet?  Or with just one memory strip instead of two?

 

Have you tried upping the memory voltage to 2 volts yet?  It is apparently supported in the advanced features of your BIOS.  Despite your test with the alternate memory strip, it is still my first suspect if the MB does not set the voltage correctly.

 

Joe L.

[Pinch]

Well, I have a glass table, so I just used that

 

I actually thought I had it this time: taking it out of the chassis didn't help (didn't even get my usual one good boot), but I got the memory to run at 667 by adjusting the multiplier, not voltage... By doing this I managed to get the system booted twice in a row! That's a first! But... on the third and fourth try it was restarting again

 

I've tried with 3 different memory strips, one at a time and in both channels - no go.

 

 

EDIT: I've just re-seated the cpu and cleared CMOS (you never know)... It didn't help, but I did notice something: when I get the message "Booting processor 1/1 ip 6000" the system usually hangs for a few seconds and then keeps going till it restarts at the usual line... After re-seating the CPU, the system didn't hang at the "booting processor... " nor did it hang at "Freeing initrd memory: 46212k freed" (it's always hung for a bit and then either restarts or boots) at the very FIRST boot. During the next boot it crashed at the "booting processor... " - I haven't noticed it crashing at that point before! At the third boot, the system hang at both "booting processor... " and "Freeing initrd memory: 46212k freed" and then restarted (as usual). We're back to where we started

[Pinch]

This is getting ridiculous!

 

I tried replacing the PSU just to rule it out, and it was - the exact same problem still occurred.

Then tried switching the CPU to a Core 2 Duo 6400. This made a difference! Out of about 10 attempts at booting only 2 were unsuccessful! But still... 2 were unsuccessful!

 

The odd thing is, it didn't crash at the usual line! Not once!

When the system randomly restarts now, it looks like it'll only happen at the "booting processor... " line.

 

With these symptoms the obvious conclusion would be both the MB ('cause it still chrashes with a good CPU) and CPU ('cause it made a difference replacing it) are fried! But that's just... unlikely.

 

 

I did however notice something looking around in the BIOS: under "PC Health" I can see something called "DDR18V" running at 1.93 Volts - Joe, is this what you were talking about regarding the memory volts/timing (and according to one of your earlier posts, this IS actually the wrong voltage, right?)? I can't change anything, but it's there...

 

Right now I have the parts for 2 complete systems laying on my desktop, so if anyone has a suggestion as to my next step/test, please speak your mind!

[heffe2001]

With these symptoms the obvious conclusion would be both the MB ('cause it still chrashes with a good CPU) and CPU ('cause it made a difference replacing it) are fried! But that's just... unlikely.

 

If you didn't take proper precautions for static, then both getting fried aren't unlikely, it's very possible.  It's also possible that one of the pins in the processor socket (I'm assuming it's a socket 775, I don't keep up with much on the intel side anymore) could have been bent just enough to not be making good contact (been there, done that, have the dead board to prove it).  Could be that it made good enough contact on the other proc to work initially, but not enough to keep it working consistantly.

 

I didn't notice if you'd run a couple memtest passes or not, you might also want to try there. 

 

[Pinch]

Forget my previous "ridiculous". THIS is ridiculous!

 

At least one user can report my MB as working, so with all these problems apparently related to the MB, I got a new one today (same model)... The restarts are stilll happening! The exact same problem is still at hand!

 

This rules out, well, everything! I have no idea what to do now...

 

 

EDIT: Just gave the boot code "append initrd=bzroot rootdelay=10 acpi=off nolapic noapic" a try - up to now it has "successfully" booted 6 out of 6 times. Problem is I can't access the tower over LAN, not by hostname, not by IP. My router isn't seeing the tower either, so no wonder... During boot, the system's now hanging at "Starting Network Interface Plugging Daemon" consistantly for about 10+ secs. What exactly does this boot code do?

[Joe L.]

Forget my previous "ridiculous". THIS is ridiculous!

 

At least one user can report my MB as working, so with all these problems apparently related to the MB, I got a new one today (same model)... The restarts are stilll happening! The exact same problem is still at hand!

 

This rules out, well, everything! I have no idea what to do now...

 

It is not the power supply

It it not the MB

It is not the CPU

It happens with all disks disconnected.

It happens with an alternate RAM strip.

 

So... it is probably a configuration in the BIOS... you are perhaps forcing a timing where you should not, or not, where you should, or a CPU speed/voltage is not set.

 

since you have never said you explicitly set the memory voltage, for any of the RAM you've installed, I'd start there.   Even if you need to put a strip of ram in place where you KNOW the voltage and timing requirements, and can set them.  You need cheap, slow, bargain RAM, not premium high-speed stuff.

 

I still think you need to look in your MB Bios for the options to set the memory voltage, speed, and timing.   Pretty much every BIOS I ever have seen has it somewhere...

 

Assuming I've got the right MB manual/BIOS, http://america.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/Manual/motherboard_manual_ga-g31m-es2l%28es2c%29_e.pdf

on page 49 is the DDR2 overvoltage control...  You can use it to set the memory voltage to the 2 volts needed by the memory you described. (assuming it is still in the MB)

Joe L.