I'm looking for a bit of advice as I'm in a bit of a dilemma as to what system to buy next to upgrade my current system. 

 

Should I build a dual E5-2670 system (got CPUs and RAM already on eBay but can re-list on ebay) or get a more modern system?

 

This will be my first unRAID system as my current one doesn't support VT-d, and I've really bought into the drive redundancy that unRAID offers and the VMs.

 

On my new system I envisage running:

 

- initially 2-3 W10 VMs with GPU passthrough for my family, where only one of the VMs (mine) will do anything even approaching 'substantial' beyond web browsing and basic microsoft office use.  I don't game currently, but I might pickup a card later to do a bit of moderate gaming

- in the future I may run a OpenElec VM or another PC VM so I can have a direct Plex connection to a TV

- dockers for Plex, Sabnzbd, Sonar, Deluge, Crashplan, Amazon Cloud Drive (aspirational) and others in time

- In terms of Plex requirements - we frequently do 3x transcodes within just my home and I have a couple of mates I share libraries with, and I'd add more if I had more resources so I need a system that can handle 5x transcodes at a min so around 9-10k passmark min, although I'd like some headroom if possible to do 1-2 4k transcodes in the future

- 2x M.2 NVME drives as a cache pool and 6-8 HDDs in an array

 

Until about a week ago, I was planning on building a Dual E5-2670 system and I'd already purchased the CPUs and RAM on eBay, but maybe thankfully because of the issues I've had finding a decent priced motherboard and the extra research I've done over the last month, I haven't bought the mobo and I'm wondering if I should spec up a different system that won't face the following potential issues:

 

- more expensive to run - a newer system will be use less electricity and be cheaper to run 24x7

- rebooting the server motherboards sounds like a pain and I'd like something that's easier for my family to turn on if I'm not there

- old technology which will face hardware compatibility issues e.g. some of the mobos don't even support USB3 out of the box, much less 3.1, Thunderbolt, M.2 etc etc

- maintenance will be easier because the BIOS/hardware/drivers will be more modern

- replacements easier to find - not sure I want to be buying replacement CPUs on ebay in the future, what happens when mobos are no longer available, limited choice etc etc

- a latest gen mobo will have a better upgrade path e.g. can upgrade CPU later

- less hardware options - finding a SSI-EEB case I like is driving me bonkers, everything I like has an ATX format

 

The lure of the Dual E5-2670 is the headline power which almost certainly will cover anything I can come up with over the next 5 years or so to do, but I'm wondering if I really need that much power and am I just potentially creating more cost and maintenance (my time is the most valuable!) for myself, and would I be better off building an ATX based i7-6700 system with on-board dual M.2 support and USB3.1 to get similar power uplifts?  I like the idea of an i7-6700 as hopefully the mobo will support Kaby Lake, so I will have an upgrade path in the future.

 

Or, is there another CPU that people recommend?  An i5-6600 I think will be not be enough of an upgrade over my current i5-3450.  Are there more modern single/dual Xeon setups I should consider?  I'm open to all suggestions and help, hence the post!

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

The limitation is cost. If you can afford it, certainly it is more appealing to go for something more modern. If I were building an all-in-one, I would not hesitate to go a few generations back. For most typical use cases, going bleeding edge tech would not offer any perceptible benefits.

Im very happy with my two E5-2670 builds. I new, server grade motherboards, dual procs, 128GB each, and Noctua coolers for $850 each.

Man, you sound JUST like me about a month ago.  My original setup was 2 unRAID servers.  One had a core i3, and the other, which acted purely as data backup, had an integrated atom processor.  I got interested in virtualization, so I performed what I call a "trickle down" upgrade.  I bought a new mobo, xeon processor, and this became my primary unRAID machine, with the i3 acting as my backup server.

 

My Xeon is great, but it's an E3-1246, so as powerful as it is, it doesn't have a ton of cores/threads to be handing out to multiple VMs.  The more I got into virtualization, the more tempted I was to go with the EXACT same build you're considering (maybe we read the same article, haha).  I pondered and pondered, but ultimately I decided that a newer, more efficient single Xeon e5 processor, combined with a dual socket mobo was the right decision.  Lots of cores, more powerful than 2x1270's, and later down the road I'd have the option to add a second processor if needed.  All of this quickly became a moot point though, because a craigslisted i7-4770 fell into my lap for $130, so I upgraded my backup server to the i7, and now I have 2 unRAID machines, both with 8 threads, both virtualization ready.

 

I never really considered using BOTH my unRAID servers for virtualization, until I found the craigslist post, but now that I look back on it, it should have at least been a consideration from the beginning.  Both run VMs, I have a ton of available processing power, and since I have 2 independent servers (both of which run very efficiently), I have one act as a backup for my most important data.  Now that I've been in this configuration for a couple weeks, I don't think I'd trade it for a single "super-server".  Sure, you have the added cost of an additional unRAID license, twice the hardware, twice the physical footprint, but the cost difference is pretty minimal once you consider the processors/motherboards being considerably cheaper.  Plus, I don't have a single point of failure.

 

Just more things to consider.  I probably didn't help you out much in your decision, but since I was in a similar situation recently, I thought I'd share my experiences.

Thanks for all the replies

 

I pondered and pondered, but ultimately I decided that a newer, more efficient single Xeon e5 processor, combined with a dual socket mobo was the right decision.  Lots of cores, more powerful than 2x1270's, and later down the road I'd have the option to add a second processor if needed.

 

This is what I was kind of hoping someone would be able to answer - is there a single V3 or V4 Xeon that would give me the power savings, latest generation benefits and similar or better performance to a i7-6700k for around the same cost, that I could add a second matching CPU in the future too? 

 

I think I would be happy to pay £700-800/$900-1000 (£ exchange rate sucks!) for a Mobo, 64GB Ram and a single V3/V4 Xeon that offers better performance than an i7 today, and offers the potential to go dual CPU in the future.  But, I can't find one (a E5-2620V4 system would cost £1k for 1 CPU, dual-socket mobo and 32GB of ram). 

 

So, I think I'm going to go for my dual E5-2670 dual CPU system as it's much better value at around £500-550 for a dual-core monster today.

Thanks for all the replies

 

I pondered and pondered, but ultimately I decided that a newer, more efficient single Xeon e5 processor, combined with a dual socket mobo was the right decision.  Lots of cores, more powerful than 2x1270's, and later down the road I'd have the option to add a second processor if needed.

 

This is what I was kind of hoping someone would be able to answer - is there a single V3 or V4 Xeon that would give me the power savings, latest generation benefits and similar or better performance to a i7-6700k for around the same cost, that I could add a second matching CPU in the future too? 

Judging on your purchase of the 2670's, it looks like you're willing to buy off of ebay.  If that's the case, you could look at the e5-2683 v3.  That's the processor I had decided on, before seeing the craigslist add for the i7-4770.  Looks like you can get it for under £300: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTEL-XEON-E5-2683-V3-2-0GHz-35M-9-6GT-s-14Core-LGA2011-3-CPU-PROCESSOR-SR1XH-/311606779033?hash=item488d361c99:g:r5EAAOSwawpXsoB9

 

It has a passmark score of over 18000 as a single cpu.  That's just one example, there are several different e5 v3's around that price range, give or take £100.

 

So, I think I'm going to go for my dual E5-2670 dual CPU system as it's much better value at around £500-550 for a dual-core monster today.

There is certainly nothing wrong with that decision.  It'll be a beastly machine, and though not quite as future-proof, would still be plenty powerful for years.  Plus, you'll save money on not having to upgrade to ECC DDR4, which is over twice as expensive as your current ECC DDR3 RAM.

Judging on your purchase of the 2670's, it looks like you're willing to buy off of ebay.  If that's the case, you could look at the e5-2683 v3.  That's the processor I had decided on, before seeing the craigslist add for the i7-4770.  Looks like you can get it for under £300: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTEL-XEON-E5-2683-V3-2-0GHz-35M-9-6GT-s-14Core-LGA2011-3-CPU-PROCESSOR-SR1XH-/311606779033?hash=item488d361c99:g:r5EAAOSwawpXsoB9

 

It has a passmark score of over 18000 as a single cpu.  That's just one example, there are several different e5 v3's around that price range, give or take £100.

Perfect!  That's the kind of advice I was hoping for.  I found an E5-2695v3 with a nearly 21k passmark (!!) for £250 - I've just specced up a machine with one of these in a dual mobo motherboard with 32GB DDR4 ram (half the 64GB DDR3 ram I bought on ebay) for £150 more than my previous build cost. 

 

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/dsMLPs

 

To me that's money well spent as the extra cash buys me:

 

- more processing power

- all components 'new' except for CPU and I have several replacement options with V3/V4 Xeons in the future

- more modern equipment

 

I can even build a system which comes in at the same cost if I go with one CPU, but I can't find an LGA2011v3 motherboard that either has onboard graphics or enough PCI slots to allow me to do min 3 GPU passthroughs after having to assign one to unRAID i.e. 4 slots, as well as one more for the second M.2 drive.  I will keep looking though as I'm more confident managing the single CPU motherboards as they are consumer boards not server boards, as I'm only a wannabe techie and 21k passmark is a MASSIVE increase on my current 6.5k, or the 11k I'd get with the 6700k or the 18K with the dual E5 setup.  It'd also reduce my power consumption.

 

 

So, I think I'm going to go for my dual E5-2670 dual CPU system as it's much better value at around £500-550 for a dual-core monster today.

 

There is certainly nothing wrong with that decision.  It'll be a beastly machine, and though not quite as future-proof, would still be plenty powerful for years.  Plus, you'll save money on not having to upgrade to ECC DDR4, which is over twice as expensive as your current ECC DDR3 RAM.

 

The DDR3 ram will be going straight back on ebay, so not a worry.

Perfect!  That's the kind of advice I was hoping for.  I found an E5-2695v3 with a nearly 21k passmark (!!) for £250 - I've just specced up a machine with one of these in a dual mobo motherboard with 32GB DDR4 ram (half the 64GB DDR3 ram I bought on ebay) for £150 more than my previous build cost. 

 

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/dsMLPs

 

Cool!  Glad I could help.  One piece of advice regarding the processor: Beware "ES" versions of CPUs on ebay.  Those are engineering samples, and aren't even supposed to be resold.  Some people trust them, but I personally wouldn't.  If it is an ES, it'll usually not have the model designator printed on the chip.  It'll say something like "CONFIDENTIAL" instead of "XEON E5-2695".

 

and I have several replacement options with V3/V4 Xeons in the future

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here but just in case you weren't aware, cpus in a dual cpu configuration must be identical.  So, later down the road if you want to add another processor it'll have the be the exact same model as the one already in there.  That's the way I understand it, at least.

Cool!  Glad I could help.  One piece of advice regarding the processor: Beware "ES" versions of CPUs on ebay.  Those are engineering samples, and aren't even supposed to be resold.  Some people trust them, but I personally wouldn't.  If it is an ES, it'll usually not have the model designator printed on the chip.  It'll say something like "CONFIDENTIAL" instead of "XEON E5-2695".

 

Yeah, I worked that out in time.  I managed to find another E5-2683V3 OEM for a bit cheaper than your link, so I'm definitely going for one of those.  I'm just trying to find an X99 mobo that has 4x PCIe x16 slots and 1xM.2 so I can install the 2nd M.2 drive in a x4 card, or 3xPCIe x16 slots and 2xM.2 slots. 

 

So far I've got the https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X99A-SLI-PLUS.html#hero-overview for the 1xM.2 slot scenario, but I'm not 100% certain I can install  3 graphics cards if the 4th slot has a x4 card in it and I'm waiting for MSI to get back to me.

 

For the x2 M.2 slot scenario so far I've got the fatal1ty x99 professional gaming i7, but that costs £100 more and has a lot of game features I will never be using. 

 

If anyone has any other suggestions, or a way for me to keep my VMs etc on 1 cache drive and COPY not MOVE them to the array so I don't need a 2nd drive to create a cache pool for redundancy, then that'd be helpful as it save me money.

 

and I have several replacement options with V3/V4 Xeons in the future

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here but just in case you weren't aware, cpus in a dual cpu configuration must be identical.  So, later down the road if you want to add another processor it'll have the be the exact same model as the one already in there.  That's the way I understand it, at least.

 

Yeah, I know that ;-)  What I meant is if in the future an even better chip appeared on ebay for $50 I could upgrade, maybe even buy two!

If it is ok to have the vms off for the vm copy, a simple script would do as the vm disks are saved as single files in unraid. If your Cache crashes, you could just reroute your VM config to use the backed up virtual disks directly out of the array while the new cache arrives.

 

One way would be to use crashplan, a backup tool that can be used via a docker container. Only thing is that the vmdisk change while they are started up so it might be a problem to do a backup of them during use.

 

I do not actualy have any vital data on my VMs as the data is stored on the array so I do a backup manualy after I changed something like a new install in my Vm and push it into the array.

 

I do not think there is a way of telling the build in mover to not move but copy data. Might be worth a feature request.

If anyone has any other suggestions, or a way for me to keep my VMs etc on 1 cache drive and COPY not MOVE them to the array so I don't need a 2nd drive to create a cache pool for redundancy, then that'd be helpful as it save me money.

 

For my Windows VM, I use Macrium Reflect to make regular backups that are stored off on my array.  I also manually shut down the VM and make a copy every couple months, when I have the time and remember.