I am planning to build/obtain a storage system to handle the streaming of DVD's, BluRay disks and Music (FLAC) files.  I have many tracks of falc all managed by logitech SqueezeServer. I have ripped several Blu Rays and DVD's to storage space on a spare computer I own and using the Dune player I get perfect playback over a 100 mb lan. 

 

I have ordered enough equipment to build the server I want, but I will probably experiment for a while to see if I want unraid or "Classic" Raid. Being a computer engineer (software and hardware) with over 50 years in the field I appreciate and favor the architecture of the unRaid paradigm.  I want my movies/music not to span disks. I want to be able to spin down disks that are not in use streaming a movie.  I want to have the server sleep (at least state S3) when I command it to using WOL.  I wrote a little VB program to do this so when I start to watch movies in the theater I can wake the server. I would like to be able to run two streams to two different rooms at the same time.

 

I have ordered equipment and would appreciate any comments from those with more knowledge and experience.  I will pay back in kind by contributing in my areas of expertise.

 

The mobo I have ordered is a Gigabyte GM-MA785-US2H  with  2 1G DR2 1066 RAM's, it runs an Athon II x2 240 64 bit processor clocking at 2.86Ghz.  I will be placing Win XP 64 on an IDE derive to allow me to play in that space. I will be playing with the unRAid system off a flash drive or as a multiboot off the IDE drive. I have played with Red Hat Linux and Ubuntu but am basically a Windows person. The Mobo has a PCIe x16 (2.0), a PCIe x1 (2.0), and two PCI slots.  On board video and LAN. Plenty of USB, 1394a, and 6 Sata ports with internal RAID available.

 

The case has a SAS backplane with 3 SFF-8087 connectors. The Case is a Rack mount version with 12 hot swap trays, a slim CD slot and a 5.25 external bay. it will take up to a ATX-E mobo with 7 slots. I have been told I can use a reverse breakout cable to connect the mobo's 6 sata II drive ports to the backplane. I have ordered a Areca RocketRaid 1231ML RAID controller card.  I need to verify that I can use that card in "non-Raid" mode to connect the 12 SATA HDD to the system.

 

I would appreciate any comments as to conpatibility, suitability, estimated throughput and whether the ARC-1231ML can be used to provide full drive connectivity for unRAID. The 1231ML has 3 SFF-8087 connections which mates perfectly with the cases internal backplane. A suggestion for a SATA controller card that is either PCIe or PCI that can hanfle 6 SATA drives for unRaid would also be appreciated.  I guess I could use a 2 port and a 4 port as all of thge expansion slots are empty for now.

 

Thanks In advance,

 

Barry Gordon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You will need to be wary of HPA, which is a 'feature' of all Gigabyte boards.  BEFORE you hook up any hard drives to the mobo, boot into BIOS and disable HPA.  It is generally called something like 'Save a Copy of BIOS to the Hard Drive'.  Search these forums for 'HPA' and you'll find all kinds of horror stories.

 

You will also need to be wary of your CMOS battery dying and HPA re-enabling itself.  If you CMOS battery dies, you will need to unplug all of your drives and disable HPA again before hooking them back up.  If HPA gets written to a drive that already contains data, there is the potential for data loss.

 

For this reason, it is generally recommended to avoid Gigabyte boards for an unRAID server.  If you have the option of canceling your order, I would do so.  Get a SuperMicro, Biostar, Asrock, or Asus instead.  If you don't have that option, you can still use the board, just take the precautions above.

 

Everything else looks fine.  Your CPU is overkill, but it will work.  Getting unRAID to multiboot off an IDE drive is way too much hassle, just use the standard USB flash drive method.  I don't know about booting into Win XP either, I've never played with that.

 

I can't comment on your backplanes or your RAID controller.

Ok, now that your scared silly about HPA.  It's an issue on older bios where it was enabled by default.  If it's disabled by default in the bios then even having the cmos battery dying isn't going to cause a problem.  So check if it's disabled by default and breath again. 

Hi queeg, it is a little hard to pin point exactly, but I'm guessing this feature was introduced only a few years ago (well from the dates of this forum, other forums and blogs which started talking about this HPA, Virtual Dual BIOS or 'Backup Image to HDD' feature). All my Windows-based PCs have Gigabyte mobo's, which are a myriad of systems ranging from +6 years to just under 6 months old. The oldest mobo has a Dual BIOS feature (two physical BIOS chips), but no option to write BIOS images to a disks (from what I can recall).

The two newer Gigabyte mobo's both have this option. In my case with these newer boards, this option was Enabled by default, though I manually Disabled it. One of these newer mobo's (GA-MA770-US3, which had both Dual BIOS feature and the  'Backup Image to HDD' feature too) was my original board for my unraid server, which I've replaced with an Asus M4A785T-M instead.

I can rest assure that if the CMOS backup battery dies on this Asus board, I won't be faced with this dreadful problem of possibility of the BIOS writing a image dump onto any of the disk(s), a risk I definitely will not take. I won't even be able to detect whether the CMOS battery dies it as my server basically runs headless, so even if the rig were not headless and with a screen hooked up to it all the time, I wouldn't be standing in front of my rig while it boots up every time either. I was and still a Gigabyte fan, but in unraid's terms, it is best to stay away from it entirely to be sure to be sure.    

 

Ok, now that your scared silly about HPA.  It's an issue on older bios where it was enabled by default.  If it's disabled by default in the bios then even having the cmos battery dying isn't going to cause a problem.  So check if it's disabled by default and breath again.  

Ok, now that your scared silly about HPA.  It's an issue on older bios where it was enabled by default.  If it's disabled by default in the bios then even having the cmos battery dying isn't going to cause a problem.  So check if it's disabled by default and breath again. 

the only flaw with your thinkig is, even with it disabled it still creates the partitions sometimes, but just doesnt use it

Well even the more reason to avoid it then . I was certain it would only write to any disk(s) if it is Enabled, but this might be subject to mobo to mobo that Gigabyte manufactures I guess. As a simple quick answer, stay away from Gigabyte at all costs for the sake of unraid that is .

 

Ok, now that your scared silly about HPA.  It's an issue on older bios where it was enabled by default.  If it's disabled by default in the bios then even having the cmos battery dying isn't going to cause a problem.  So check if it's disabled by default and breath again. 

the only flaw with your thinkig is, even with it disabled it still creates the partitions sometimes, but just doesnt use it

Ok, now that your scared silly about HPA.  It's an issue on older bios where it was enabled by default.  If it's disabled by default in the bios then even having the cmos battery dying isn't going to cause a problem.  So check if it's disabled by default and breath again. 

the only flaw with your thinkig is, even with it disabled it still creates the partitions sometimes, but just doesnt use it

I've not heard of that...  Can you provide a link for reference?

 

Joe L.

I can rest assure that if the CMOS backup battery dies on this Asus board, I won't be faced with this dreadful problem of possibility of the BIOS writing a image dump onto any of the disk(s), a risk I definitely will not take.

 

Yes, I get that you feel this is a risk you are not willing to take.  And it makes me nervous to a certain degree but in my motherboard bios it was disabled by default  That's the facts.  Until I read evidence that it isn't safe when disabled by default then I think it's just better to state the facts and let others decide for themselves.  After all, there are other very potential *unsafe* situations that can trash data.  How about forgetting to put the jumper on a WD Ears drive?  Or accidentally pulling it off after the drive has data on it?   How about those playing around with hot swap bays?  

There are other examples that some people would consider dangerous.  People should be able to decide based on facts what their level of risk is for any number of different issues.  

 

Also, I have to point out that the hardware compatibility list shows a number of Gigabyte boards as being approved.  So if you are going to tell people they should cancel orders or return Gigabyte boards after they buy them I believe you should mount enough evidence about the issue and have something posted in the hardware compatibilty page warning people BEFORE they buy. 

Hi queeg. People can by Gigabye boards. I know Gigabyte boards have been listed on the unraid Hardware Compatibility listing, and to be honest my first two unraid servers which I had running for months both had Gigabyte boards. I feel that people should know the facts about what a Gigabyte board might possibility do a unraid array.

Like you said, in some curcumstances this option can be found to be disabled by default (pending BIOS versions and board models), and in some circumstances even a BIOS update could well even make this option disabled by default too, which is good. Gigabyte might even be aware that this feature left enabled might cause problems to people. The proper unraid server I built for production had this option enabled by default. When I came to know about this proble, I double-checked my BIOS and I fould to be enabled, which scared me a lot.

This Gigabyte problem isn't the only factor which can cause data lost as you pointed out as well. It would be cold comfort for us to say 'Yeah well this happens with some Gigabyte boards' when someone who could run into this problem in the forsee future. I'd hate to read about that, knowing we could of at lease made them aware of this.

I can't enforce my opinions onto others, though I can make them aware of my knowledge about this. In the end, it'll be up to them to make the decision to accept this information and to be comfortable knowing that they can either avoid it by verifying it is disabled (or making then necessary precautions to make sure it is disabled) and hope it won't happen to them. I was greatful for the members on this forum to inform me (Joe L especially) of the fatal consequences that this had caused for a particular forum member.

Thanks guys, good discussion.

 

I started to assemble the stuff yesterday and ran into a mobo problem.  It was DOA. The Post let out continuous long beeps indicating that there was no graphics card installed.  There wasn't since I am planning to use the onboard graphics.  Gigabyte support said "Bad Board" as it should handle that in the bios. It has been reordered (with a $10 price drop) and Newegg paying all additional charges (shipping etc. including 2 day air back to me). If the replacement acts the same way I will go with a supermicro board.  In the past I have had very good experience with Gigabyte mobos.

 

Attached are pictures of the case.  It even has Hot swap fans. It will take up to an ATX-E mobo so the ATX-micro board fits with lots of air space.

 

The only uncertainty seems to be the Suopermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 HBA.  Discussions with Tom indicated that version 4.5.3 of unraid supports that HBA card. Initially I will just use the SATA connections on the Mobo for the first 4 drives.

 

I am loading up Win XP and Ubunto just to exercise the system as I am totally familiar with them.  My plan is to have the flash memory plugged into a USB port on the case front and the mobo set to boot from flash as its first choice, CD-ROM second and HDD third.  If I pull the lash drive (while power off) and reboot it will boot from the GrUb loader, if the flash drive is in place it should boot from it.

Sorry cutting this topic in the middle but I have questions regarding HBA on Gigabyte board.

 

My unraid is using GIGABYTE GA-G31M-ES2L board for almost 7 months and it runs great! I started with 3 drives and now 6 drives attached to it (4 sata & 2 ide - parity and datas).  When I started building my server I did not aware about HPA (I did not even know about it).

 

Now my question is:

1) Since I did not play with bios during original set up. Did HPA get setup by default?

2) 2 of my drives is 1.5 T seagate - parity and disk #1 (I am not sure whether they are identical or not) but 1 of them showing less volume. Is this HPA?

3) If I do have HPA in my server, can I disable it now or too late? What can I do with the drive that has HPA in it? My real question is "Should I do some thing with it?" - Old man say: "why messing up with thinks that works"

 

Thanks!!

 

 

1) Since I did not play with bios during original set up. Did HPA get setup by default?

I don't know if your board has HPA or not, only you can check that.  Boot into BIOS and look around for an option that says something like 'Save BIOS to hard drive' or any of the other names HPA goes by.

 

2) 2 of my drives is 1.5 T seagate - parity and disk #1 (I am not sure whether they are identical or not) but 1 of them showing less volume. Is this HPA?

Most likely, yes, this is HPA.  The difference should be small, something like 2 mb.  I'm guessing the HPA is showing up on your data disk #1, otherwise your parity drive wouldn't be working as unRAID would think it is too small.

 

That is how I originally found out about HPA.  I bought a new parity drive (1 TB, I think), and unRAID wouldn't let me assign it as parity because my Gigabyte motherboard had put an HPA partition on it, so it was slightly smaller than my other 1 TB data drives.  I ended up having to buy a 1.5 TB drive as a parity drive instead.  Since then, I have switched to a Biostar board and haven't had any problems.  The HPA partition is still probably sitting on one of my data drives, but it isn't being used, so that doesn't bother me.  I can deal with losing 2 mb.

 

3) If I do have HPA in my server, can I disable it now or too late? What can I do with the drive that has HPA in it? My real question is "Should I do some thing with it?" - Old man say: "why messing up with thinks that works"

If your server continues to work perfectly forever, you won't have a problem.  The risk is this: say your data disk #1 were to die tomorrow.  Your Gigabyte motherboard all of a sudden can't find it's HPA partition, so what does it do?  It creates another one.  This new HPA partition could be on any of your disks, data or parity.  I'm fairly sure that if it chooses a data disk, you will be OK as long as that disk isn't completely full (fairly sure, not 100%).  However, if it chooses your parity drive, your parity data will be invalidated, and all of a sudden unRAID will see your parity drive as being too small (assuming you have other 1.5 TB data drives).

 

As far as I know, there's no way to get rid of an HPA partition once it is created.  You can disable the HPA functionality through BIOS, of course, but this won't delete the partition, just render it unused.

barrygordon: Nice pics, thanks for posting those.  What case is that?  It looks like the Norco 4220, but the 4220 has 20 drive bays, not 12.

 

Also, I would be wary about having your unRAID flash drive sticking out the front of your server.  This may make it more convenient, however, it also puts it at risk of accidentally being broken.  If your server is tucked away in a closet or something then it is probably fine, but if it is at all exposed to kids/dogs, then a rear or internally mounted flash drive may be a better idea.

Also, I would be wary about having your unRAID flash drive sticking out the front of your server.  This may make it more convenient, however, it also puts it at risk of accidentally being broken.  If your server is tucked away in a closet or something then it is probably fine, but if it is at all exposed to kids/dogs, then a rear or internally mounted flash drive may be a better idea.

 

I agree, unless it is very small, like the PQI models or something like that.

I use these short USB extender cables so the card reader/sd card is flexible (I use SD cards with readers rather then a thumb drive).

In any case, the short USB extender cable saved ma butt a few times.

Hi WeeboTech, you can get a valid GUID from an SD card correct? Interesting you choose this form of media to run unraid from. Thanks.

 

3) If I do have HPA in my server, can I disable it now or too late? What can I do with the drive that has HPA in it? My real question is "Should I do some thing with it?" - Old man say: "why messing up with thinks that works"

If your server continues to work perfectly forever, you won't have a problem.  The risk is this: say your data disk #1 were to die tomorrow.  Your Gigabyte motherboard all of a sudden can't find it's HPA partition, so what does it do?  It creates another one.  This new HPA partition could be on any of your disks, data or parity.  I'm fairly sure that if it chooses a data disk, you will be OK as long as that disk isn't completely full (fairly sure, not 100%).  However, if it chooses your parity drive, your parity data will be invalidated, and all of a sudden unRAID will see your parity drive as being too small (assuming you have other 1.5 TB data drives).

 

If your board has HPA ENABLED BY DEFAULT - then I concur with Rajahal, the board should be replaced.  

 

If HPA is enabled by default the risk is large and looming and ugly increasing over time.

If HPA is disabled by default the risk is quite low or perhaps none at all.

Exactly the reason why I changed my board. This was enabled by default, I assumed it wasn't and it was to only when the members of this forum made me aware of this problem, I double checked my BIOS and to my shock it was enabled! Hence why too I changed my board and advising other to be weary of this potential problem of their considing buying a gigabyte mobo. Thanks.

 

 

3) If I do have HPA in my server, can I disable it now or too late? What can I do with the drive that has HPA in it? My real question is "Should I do some thing with it?" - Old man say: "why messing up with thinks that works"

If your server continues to work perfectly forever, you won't have a problem.  The risk is this: say your data disk #1 were to die tomorrow.  Your Gigabyte motherboard all of a sudden can't find it's HPA partition, so what does it do?  It creates another one.  This new HPA partition could be on any of your disks, data or parity.  I'm fairly sure that if it chooses a data disk, you will be OK as long as that disk isn't completely full (fairly sure, not 100%).  However, if it chooses your parity drive, your parity data will be invalidated, and all of a sudden unRAID will see your parity drive as being too small (assuming you have other 1.5 TB data drives).

 

If your board has HPA ENABLED BY DEFAULT - then I concur with Rajahal, the board should be replaced.  

 

If HPA is enabled by default the risk is large and looming and ugly increasing over time.

If HPA is disabled by default the risk is quite low or perhaps none at all.

Rajahal,

 

The case is by Chenbro.  It is very well made and more like a professional server case.  All I wanted was a 24TB array.  There is space at the top above the drives for two more HD's. I was thinking of putting the Parity drive up there.  The only issue is that these two drives are not hot swapable.  The mid line Backplane Fans and all the drive bays are hot swappable along with the dual power supply.

 

All my server equipment and the up and soon the unRaid system is in a separate room, designed as an electronics/server room when the house was built. This month due to the amount of equipment in it, it gets its own A/C instead of using house air.