Configuration compatibility doubts?

[Astror]

I am planing on building my own double duty NAS/gaming machine and from what I have been able to read in the forums I'm not sure if this configuration will give me any problems (see attached image). Will I have to do something weird/difficult for a beginner as using a patched build of Unraid with a different Kernel? If so, Will it have consequences in compatibility with any plugin I may be interested in using (plex, Minecraft server...)?

 

Thanks in advance, I'm sorry if this is a trivial question but I'm new in this unraid stuff ;)

 

 

[itimpi]

You cannot easily load your own kernel at the Unraid level.   However this is normally a non-issue as you would normally run applications such as Minecraft in either a docker container (most common) or a VM.   In both cases they are not aware of what kernel is being used by Unraid.

[testdasi]

There are many topics on the forum with issues passing through the RX 580 as primary / only GPU.

The only [Solved] topic I can find (quoted at end of post), the OP had to have a 2nd GPU.

So I would expect you to have a hard time with your suggested config and use case.

 

There is a success story with Gigabyte X570 + 3900X + Nvidia GTX 1070 so you might want to consider that config instead for an easier time.

In particular:

• I generally recommend someone new to Unraid to pick a Gigabyte motherboard because it has the Initial Output Display option in BIOS that allows you to pick any PCIe x16 slot as first GPU (what Unraid boots with).
  • This allows you, IF THE NEED ARISES, to plug a 2nd GPU in the slowest PCIe x16 slot (usually only running at x4) to use for Unraid to boot and not waste your fast 1st PCIe slot.
• Mitigation for error code 43 with Nvidia GPU is generally more reliable than mitigation for reset issues with AMD GPU.
  • Usually all it takes is a 2nd GPU (cheap single-slot for about €30-40 or so) for Unraid to boot with (hence my point above about Gigabyte motherboard) to resolve error code 43.
  • The 1070 is a bit more expensive than the RX580 but the 1060 should be similarly priced.

 

Stay away from the Intel 660p (and QLC SSD in general) especially if you want to use it the cache pool.

It's cheap but there's a reason why it's so cheap (it's rubbish - real life performance is comparable to a good SATA SSD, and sometimes worse).

You want 3D-TLC (aka "V-NAND").

 

Any particular reason why you picked the WD Red NAS?

• Unraid isn't RAID so there isn't really a need to pick a "NAS" (or "Enterprise") model.
• Usually the cheapest you can find from a reputable dealer is good enough.
• Many on here even shuck from cheap external HDD

 

The only generally available (and updated) patched Unraid is Unraid Nvidia but that is only for those who want to do hardware transcoding in Plex using supported Nvidia GPU (e.g. Quadro P2000 is a popular choice).

If you don't have that need (and from what you said, you don't) then there's no need to run any patched build of Unraid.

 

A user posted a patched version that has VEGA and NAVI reset patches included but it has not been updated since November.

RX 580 is Polaris though so I don't think that will help if you decide to go ahead with the RX 580.

 

Referenced posts:

[SOLVED] Can't pass my RX 580 through

 

Success story with Gigabyte X570 + 3900X + Nvidia GTX 1070

 

Custom kernel

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by testdasi

[Astror]

46 minutes ago, testdasi said:

There are many topics on the forum with issues passing through the RX 580 as primary / only GPU.

The only [Solved] topic I can find (quoted at end of post), the OP had to have a 2nd GPU.

So I would expect you to have a hard time with your suggested config and use case.

 

There is a success story with Gigabyte X570 + 3900X + Nvidia GTX 1070 so you might want to consider that config instead for an easier time.

In particular:

• I generally recommend someone new to Unraid to pick a Gigabyte motherboard because it has the Initial Output Display option in BIOS that allows you to pick any PCIe x16 slot as first GPU (what Unraid boots with).
  • This allows you, IF THE NEED ARISES, to plug a 2nd GPU in the slowest PCIe x16 slot (usually only running at x4) to use for Unraid to boot and not waste your fast 1st PCIe slot.
• Mitigation for error code 43 with Nvidia GPU is generally more reliable than mitigation for reset issues with AMD GPU.
  • Usually all it takes is a 2nd GPU (cheap single-slot for about €30-40 or so) for Unraid to boot with (hence my point above about Gigabyte motherboard) to resolve error code 43.
  • The 1070 is a bit more expensive than the RX580 but the 1060 should be similarly priced.

 

Stay away from the Intel 660p (and QLC SSD in general) especially if you want to use it the cache pool.

It's cheap but there's a reason why it's so cheap (it's rubbish - real life performance is comparable to a good SATA SSD, and sometimes worse).

You want 3D-TLC (aka "V-NAND").

 

Any particular reason why you picked the WD Red NAS?

• Unraid isn't RAID so there isn't really a need to pick a "NAS" (or "Enterprise") model.
• Usually the cheapest you can find from a reputable dealer is good enough.
• Many on here even shuck from cheap external HDD

 

The only generally available (and updated) patched Unraid is Unraid Nvidia but that is only for those who want to do hardware transcoding in Plex using supported Nvidia GPU (e.g. Quadro P2000 is a popular choice).

If you don't have that need (and from what you said, you don't) then there's no need to run any patched build of Unraid.

 

A user posted a patched version that has VEGA and NAVI reset patches included but it has not been updated since November.

RX 580 is Polaris though so I don't think that will help if you decide to go ahead with the RX 580.

 

Referenced posts:

[SOLVED] Can't pass my RX 580 through

 

Success story with Gigabyte X570 + 3900X + Nvidia GTX 1070

 

Custom kernel

 

Thanks for the response, and I have some questions regarding your answer.

 

My only reason to go with an RX580 for the VM is that it is the graphics card I'm using in my current build (and will have to do for now). If the problem is that I would be using only one graphics card and this one is problematic, I could add another one (a very old one I have lying around) and leave it for Unraid to boot from. Would that solve it?

 

On the other hand, the reason that I chose the ASUS ROG Crosshair is that it is one of the few AM4 motherboards that I've seen with 8 SATA ports, which I think I need if I want more storage upgrade options in the future for the NAS. There is also the Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming, and I wasn't really sure which one I preferred, but if I can afford it I think I would go for the Crosshair (for now at least). If you tell me that the Gigabyte mobos are better for Unraid (I believe you as I know close to nothing about this) then I would have to settle with 6 SATA ports, and research how to expand storage through the PCI express slots (dont now how difficult/expensive it would be to do it in the future).

 

Regarding the SSD I dont really have a problem with the performance hit of going with QLC instead of TLC, as far as I know (from YouTube videos,

) I am not going to see a difference for my use case most probably, and I want as much SSD storage as possible from the M.2 slot (as the SATA ports are valuable for me for the NAS storage). As far as I know, and I could be wrong, If I do a VM I can chose to use the SSD to run it from it despite the SSD being the cache for the pool (am I wrong?).

 

Lastly the NAS drives I chose are simply one of the few options I can see for 10TB drives, and one of the cheapest (without considering the chuck option from external HDDs, I don't really like that idea will avoid it in general), the only cheaper that I have seen is the Toshiba X300 Performance 10TB 3.5" SATA3 256MB Bulk.

[testdasi]

1 hour ago, Astror said:

Thanks for the response, and I have some questions regarding your answer.

 

My only reason to go with an RX580 for the VM is that it is the graphics card I'm using in my current build (and will have to do for now). If the problem is that I would be using only one graphics card and this one is problematic, I could add another one (a very old one I have lying around) and leave it for Unraid to boot from. Would that solve it?

 

On the other hand, the reason that I chose the ASUS ROG Crosshair is that it is one of the few AM4 motherboards that I've seen with 8 SATA ports, which I think I need if I want more storage upgrade options in the future for the NAS. There is also the Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming, and I wasn't really sure which one I preferred, but if I can afford it I think I would go for the Crosshair (for now at least). If you tell me that the Gigabyte mobos are better for Unraid (I believe you as I know close to nothing about this) then I would have to settle with 6 SATA ports, and research how to expand storage through the PCI express slots (dont now how difficult/expensive it would be to do it in the future).

 

Regarding the SSD I dont really have a problem with the performance hit of going with QLC instead of TLC, as far as I know (from YouTube videos,

) I am not going to see a difference for my use case most probably, and I want as much SSD storage as possible from the M.2 slot (as the SATA ports are valuable for me for the NAS storage). As far as I know, and I could be wrong, If I do a VM I can chose to use the SSD to run it from it despite the SSD being the cache for the pool (am I wrong?).

 

Lastly the NAS drives I chose are simply one of the few options I can see for 10TB drives, and one of the cheapest (without considering the chuck option from external HDDs, I don't really like that idea will avoid it in general), the only cheaper that I have seen is the Toshiba X300 Performance 10TB 3.5" SATA3 256MB Bulk.

Based on the post I cited, that (i.e. add an old 2nd GPU for Unraid) was the solution.

I suggest you can msg the original poster and double check with him/her.

 

If the SATA ports are important to you then of course, stick with the Asus ROG Crosshair.

Just note the compromise that your cheap 2nd GPU will have to be in the 1st PCIe slot (the RX 580 in the 2nd PCIe slot).

 

You can boot the VM from a vdisk file saved on the SSD as part of the cache pool. That is fine.

For value options, you might want to consider something like the ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro.

It is at a similar price point to the 660p and it's Micron 3D TLC NAND (and it has DRAM buffer) - that is actual value-for-money.

 

Intel has the anti-consumer practice of locking up the entire SSD in read-only mode after all the reserve has been used, under the pretext of data loss protection. That doesn't go well with the lower endurance of QLC cells. And then you factor in the lower performance of QLC and you basically are paying brand premium on a budget low-end product (that sucks).

 

What's wrong with the Toshiba HDD?

Or to put it differently, what makes you pick the WD Red NAS over the Toshiba X300 Performance?

Toshiba is one of the only 3 HDD manufacturers in the world (together with Seagate and WD) so it's not like they are a value brand.

Edited December 13, 2019 by testdasi

[Astror]

3 minutes ago, testdasi said:

Based on the post I cited, that (i.e. add an old 2nd GPU for Unraid) was the solution.

I suggest you can msg the original poster and double check with him/her.

 

If the SATA ports are important to you then of course, stick with the Asus ROG Crosshair.

Just note the compromise that your cheap 2nd GPU will have to be in the 1st PCIe slot (the RX 580 in the 2nd PCIe slot).

 

You can boot the VM from a vdisk file saved on the SSD as part of the cache pool. That is fine.

For value options, you might want to consider something like the ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro.

It is at a similar price point to the 660p and it's Micron 3D TLC NAND (and it has DRAM buffer) - that is actual value-for-money.

 

Intel has the anti-consumer practice of locking up the entire SSD in read-only mode after all the reserve has been used, under the pretext of data loss protection. That doesn't go well with the lower endurance of QLC cells. And then you factor in the lower performance of QLC and you basically are paying brand premium on a budget low-end product.

 

What's wrong with the Toshiba?

Or to put it differently, what makes you pick the WD Red NAS over the Toshiba X300 Performance?

Toshiba is one of the only 3 HDD manufacturers in the world (together with Seagate and WD) so it's not like they are a value brand.

Thanks for the clarification on the SSD, I will seriously consider the ADATA option

 

Regarding the Toshiba HDD, the truth is that I haven't put too much thought into it because I was more worried about some compatibility issue I could have (which happens to be the case, but I would have never thought that it was going to be the graphics card ), so I really have no problem with it, I am just worried about disk failure in general (is one of the main reasons for me to go with a NAS solution, for the redundancy options).

 

I will check the issue of the GPU with the poster you referenced, thanks.