February 22, 201115 yr Hello all, I have been lurking here for awhile and I am thinking about building an unRAID based home server. I have been planning a FreeNAS server but I am considering unRAID mainly for it's ability to easily expand by adding additional hard drives. I know that some people have managed to achieve expandability with FreeNAS and ZFS zPools but unRAID seems easier to expand. Goals Central repository for all household digital photos Central repository for music collection Central repository for Movies (ISO images, M4V files, Etc) Source for a future Popcorn Hour C-200 Backup target for my wife's documents and files (Windows XP Computer) Backup target for my kids documents and files (Apple iMac Computer) Backup target for my computer using Apple TimeMachine (Apple Mac Book Pro) Requirements Quite Low or reasonable power consumption Add-Ons that interest me unMenu SNAP AFP Support As you can see I have a mixed environment of client computers at home. I'm only interested in backing up files and settings from my wife's and from my kid's computers, their My Documents or their respective users folders. I don't need disaster recovery backups for those computers. I can easily rebuild or reimage those machines if needed. I do need to make regular backups of my primary computer. It's a Mac Book Pro running 10.6. I currently backup the internal hard drive to an external drive connected via Firewire. I make disaster recovery backups using Carbon Copy Cloner. I am not currently using TimeMachine but I am thinking about using it. I like backing up with Carbon Copy Cloner (SuperDuper is another program that does the same type of backup). I'm comfortable with this backup method. It's reliable for both disaster recovery backups and single file restores. The drawbacks are that the process is not automated and I do not have any versioning because my external drive is not big enough to keep more than one backup. I would like to carve out some space (500 GB) on my server for complete backups of my laptop. I'm a big fan of AFP connections for Mac clients. I am a mobile DJ and my DJ software application of choice is a Mac only program that uses the resource forks of the MP3 and MP4 (AAC) files in my library to store additional information about the tracks used specifically by the DJ application. I can't loose those resource forks during a backup. Using a tool like Carbon Copy Cloner does allow me to use SMB connected storage because CCC or SuperDuper create sparseimage and dmg files if you choose to backup your drive to a file on an external disk or in a server share. Inside a DMG image file all the Apple resource forks and extended attributes can be retained. As for my digital photo collection, I would like to move those files to the server as the primary storage. In other words I would not keep copies of my digital photos on my local computer's hard drive. I would also like to keep my movie collection solely on the server. Here are the parts I am initially considering for this build: 1 - Supermicro X7SPA-HF-D525 Motherboard - Link 1 - Crucial (2x 2GB) Kit 204 Pin, DDR3, 1066 - Link 3 - Hitachi 5K3000, 2TB Green HD, HDS5C3020ALA632 - Link 1 - LIAN LI PC-Q08B Case - Link 1 - Seasonic SS-400FL, Fanless CPU 400W - Link Now after lurking here for awhile I have noticed that people seem to be recommending a Core i3 CPU rather than an Atom Processor for more horsepower. I don't mind making the switch to a Core I3 motherboard and CPU but one of my goals is to keep the server quiet. The Supermicro board is pretty expensive so making the switch to a Core I3 board and CPU shouldn't have too big of an impact on cost. I selected the Supermicro board because it was the only Atom based mobo that I could find with six on board SATA ports. I have also noted that it is recommended to use a fast drive for the parity drive. I see that it can improve write speeds but only in certain situations. I have no problem switching to a 2TB 7200 rpm drive for the parity disk if it will improve write speeds. I am thinking about the Hitachi 5K3000 drives because am assuming they will be a bit quieter and more importantly cooler running. Next I have noticed recommendations to choose a different case from the Lian Li PC-Q08B case. I don't mind the fact that the PC-Q08B case has internal mounting for the hard drives. I plan to start with about 4TB of storage with a 2GB drive for parity and perhaps install a spare 320 or 500 GB drive for cache (4 drives total). I think 4TB of storage will be enough to start, I have far less data than that now. The PC-Q08B case has room for six 3.5 inch drives, seven if you use an adapter and fill the 5.25 inch bay with another drive. Down the road if I filled the 6 drive bays with four data disks, one parity disk and one cache disk, I could max out the case and the motherboard with about 8TB of storage, using 2TB drives and retaining a 500 GB drive for cache. If I exceed that capacity, I'm fine with building a new box. As for the power supply, I don't know if the Seasonic Fanless PSU can be cooled enough by the two fans built into the Lian Li case along with all that storage and the passively cooled Atom processor. I really like the SS-400FL power supply for it's fanless design and the fact that it's 80 Plus Gold certified. It should have ample power for this build with 33 Amps on a single rail. I hope I have provided ample information about what I want to achieve with this build. I welcome your recommendations.
February 22, 201115 yr The i3 processors are just recommended because they compete very well with the Atom on power usage but also have the extra processing power if it's ever required. However, it looks like you have a well thought out build for what you want to achieve. I don't really see any issues with the parts for what you want the server to do. There are a couple of Zotac mini-ITX motherboards for i3 with 6 SATA ports. Zotac just doesn't seem to have a great motherboard reputation. Still, I'm running a Zotac GF9300-D-E in my HTPC and it's been a great system for 14 months now. Maybe something like an i3 put in an ECS H55H-I LGA $80 motherboard plus this $8 expansion card to make 6 ports could be an option to that Supermicro board. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280429470355 The board and CPU would also make a nice HTPC or even just a nice general use computer if your server needs happened to change in the near future. Peter
February 22, 201115 yr Author So the Core i3 Processors run $123 / $130 / $150 for the 3.06 (540) / 3.2 (550) / 3.33 (560). The TDP is 73 watts on the i3. I know that's not really what the CPU uses but it's a lot higher than the Atom. Will an unRAID box require the additional performance for anything or is the additional performance of the i3 just recommended if I decide I want to re-purpose the board and CPU for something else down the road? How about the Sempron? This processor is dirt cheap ($38 or $43)of course which makes it attractive. It's only a single core compared to the Atom and the i3. With a 45 watt TDP, it comes in between the Core i3 and Atom. Will an unRAID box benefit much from a second core? I assume the bottleneck in an unRAID system is disk IO more than anything else, is that a fair statement? What about the AMD Fusion / Zacate? I realize that's pretty new so it's uncharted waters.
February 22, 201115 yr if all you want is a file server the sempron is fine, a better cpu is generally used to run some cpu intensive addons i can advice to look at Rajahal builds its very informative http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7998.0
February 22, 201115 yr The i3 will just give you more future proofing. Any CPU you can purchase today will run unRAID and serve files. But, if you try to get fancy with add-ons you might notice the CPU power. If you give up on unRAID and move to say WHS or some other OS you may want the better CPU. If you try to run PS3MediaServer or some other application requiring transcoding you will want a better CPU. The TDP numbers really mean very little for typical power usage and idle power usage. The TDP is really only the maximum power the CPU may use (and very iffy on the may here). There have been tests showing an i3 with a few different micro-ATX motherboard combos using 15W when idle. This is why I say an Atom system really has no advantages over an i3 system. I have a E6300 processor in my HTPC. I believe it is rated 65W. However, the power measured at the wall (includes the whole system and power supply efficiency) is 38W idle and about 70W under full CPU load. My conclusion is there is no possible way that processor is using 65W under full load. Maybe around 40W to 45W at the most. As you can probably tell, I'm just not a fan of the Atom processor line in general. Peter
February 22, 201115 yr Author Tom's Hardware has a great article about the Core i3 vs. the Atom. What I found particularly interesting was how with the extra processing power of the Core i3, things finish quicker resulting in lower power consumption just because the processor isn't running as long. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/d510mo-intel-atom,2616.html I'll look in more depth at the Core i3 before I make a decision.
February 22, 201115 yr FYI, I recently picked up a Core i3 550 at Micro Center for $99. I'm pretty sure the price hasn't changed. EDIT: I just checked and it's still $99, but only for in-store pickup.
February 22, 201115 yr The supermicro board has IPMI which makes it an ideal headless solution. This is a server class board and really is made for 24x7 operations. Be aware that the SM boards are VERY picky about RAM. Make sure you order one of the SM-listed/tested parts or one that has a positive report here from other users.
February 23, 201115 yr Author The supermicro board has IPMI which makes it an ideal headless solution. This is a server class board and really is made for 24x7 operations. Be aware that the SM boards are VERY picky about RAM. Make sure you order one of the SM-listed/tested parts or one that has a positive report here from other users. You're referencing the Supermicro Atom processor Motherboard right? The X7SPA-HF-D525, I mentioned in my first post. If you wanted that manageability in a Core processor you would have to get a Core i5 with vPro. I don't think vPro is offered in the i3.
February 23, 201115 yr The supermicro board has IPMI which makes it an ideal headless solution. You're referencing the Supermicro Atom processor Motherboard right? The X7SPA-HF-D525, I mentioned in my first post. Yes... If you wanted that manageability in a Core processor you would have to get a Core i5 with vPro. I don't think vPro is offered in the i3. No, IPMI is not a CPU feature but achieved by an additional embedded chip on the mobo, see here: http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/IPMI.cfm If you want IPMI for an i3 based build you can go for a X8SIL-F (the"-F" marks IPMI capability of the SM boards). That board is Level 1+2 tested as well, see here: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7577.0
February 23, 201115 yr According to reviews on that Sempron 140 CPU, people have unlocked a 2nd core very easily for a dual core setup. But, if you don't need the extra juice there's no point since 2 cores will likely draw more power than just the single core.
February 23, 201115 yr Author According to reviews on that Sempron 140 CPU, people have unlocked a 2nd core very easily for a dual core setup. But, if you don't need the extra juice there's no point since 2 cores will likely draw more power than just the single core. I read that too but, it didn't look like it was all that easy to unlock them. It seems like a lot of people had no luck unlocking them. Like you said, it doesn't really matter for an unRAID box.
February 23, 201115 yr It is a bad idea to unlock cores or overclock a cpu in a server. Reliability is far more important than speed. Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk
February 24, 201115 yr I actually just built a server similar to the one you're thinking about. Why exactly isn't the Q08 recommended? I thought it would be a fantastic case. Either how, I ended up using a ZOTAC G43ITX-A-E LGA mobo with a E3400 processor from microcenter ($40). I don't think it can get any cheaper than that. I picked up that processor simply because it was the cheapest. The mobo has onboard video, 5xSATA slots, 1xPCI-E 2.0 16x, and uses DDR2 (took 2 sticks from my current machine and just stuck it in this one, 4GB total). Does anyone know if the PCI-E 2.0 16x can take a AOC-SASLP-MV8? If it could, it would be awesome for future expansion. The only problem with this board is that it's only got 5 SATA ports, but the $80 you save going with this combo over a i3/zotac combo can be put towards the AOC-SASLP-MV8.
February 24, 201115 yr Author So I just realized that the Core i3 processors that are being sold through newegg are all Clarkdale CPUs. The new Sandy Bridge Core i3-2100T processor has a TDP of only 35 watts. That's a lot lower than the 73 watts for the Clarkdale i3 CPUs. I guess all the CPUs with the "T" suffix are power optimized. The Core i3-2100 and i3-2120 are still rated at 65 watts and that's still an improvement. The Sandy Bridge processors require a LGA 1155 socket which does not seem to be compatible with CPUs designed for LGA 1156 (the older style). It doesn't look like the Sandy Bridge Core i3s have really hit the streets yet. I realize that the processor will be a bit more expensive when it's brand new but if I'm going to go with an i3, I think it would make sense to wait for a Sandy Bridge CPU. I still like the Supermicro Atom board I originally considered for this build. It's certainly a more "server" oriented board with IPMI and 6 SATA connections on board, like Ford mentioned. I noticed that newegg also has the old version of that board with the D510. The newest release is the X7SPA-HF-D525 which uses the D525 Atom chip. The performance of the D525 is better than that of the D510 but only by a little bit. Looking again at Supermicro, they have a couple boards with the LGA 1155 socket. The C7P67 in full ATX form factor with Realtek Ethernet and 8 SATA ports. They also have the C7Q67 in Micro ATX form with Intel NICs and 6 SATA ports. Looks like the C7P67 might be shipping now but both motherboards are still listed as coming soon on the Supermicro site. I don't know if these boards were impacted by the Core iSeries 3Gbps SATA problem or not. The biggest difference I see between buying an Atom board versus a Core iSeries board, like many of you have mentioned, is that the Core iSeries offers an upgrade path. I could get a Core i3 today to power my server but if I decided it wasn't for me or if I wanted to switch the role of the machine, a simple processor upgrade could make a big difference... There's no way to upgrade an Atom board with the integrated CPU. Decisions, decisions.... It looks like the Sandy Bridge Core i3-2100T is about $140 - $150 for the CPU. The Supermicro C7P67 is about $190 - $200 but I would feel more comfortable buying from a dealer I trust, like newegg. At about $350 for the CPU and motherboard combo, that's about $125 more than the Supermicro Atom board. Now, I'm sure there are less expensive mobos than the Supermicro. I guess there's also the added cost of a CPU cooler.
February 24, 201115 yr I thought the new Sandy Bridge motherboards had a design flaw in the Northbridge that required them to be removed and replaced with a revised Northbridge. I'm not sure when the revised motherboards will start showing up at retailers. There's already a post describing the recall here.
February 24, 201115 yr Author I actually just built a server similar to the one you're thinking about. Why exactly isn't the Q08 recommended? I thought it would be a fantastic case. Either how, I ended up using a ZOTAC G43ITX-A-E LGA mobo with a E3400 processor from microcenter ($40). I don't think it can get any cheaper than that. I picked up that processor simply because it was the cheapest. The mobo has onboard video, 5xSATA slots, 1xPCI-E 2.0 16x, and uses DDR2 (took 2 sticks from my current machine and just stuck it in this one, 4GB total). Does anyone know if the PCI-E 2.0 16x can take a AOC-SASLP-MV8? If it could, it would be awesome for future expansion. The only problem with this board is that it's only got 5 SATA ports, but the $80 you save going with this combo over a i3/zotac combo can be put towards the AOC-SASLP-MV8. Search this forum and you'll find reasons why people don't like the Q08. I still think it's a decent case option although I'm not looking that the Antec Three Hundred. It's big yes, but it seems to be built well and it's only about $60. There's room for a lot of drives in that case.
February 24, 201115 yr Author I thought the new Sandy Bridge motherboards had a design flaw in the Northbridge that required them to be removed and replaced with a revised Northbridge. I'm not sure when the revised motherboards will start showing up at retailers. There's already a post describing the recall here. The Northbridge is integrated into the die on the Core iSeries processors. The flaw is in the Cougar Point chipset, not in the iSeries CPU itself. Of course I'll wait to get a motherboard that's not impacted by this design flaw. It looks like corrected motherboards were to begin shipping at the end of February and ramp up through March. So it's not too far out.
February 24, 201115 yr Search this forum and you'll find reasons why people don't like the Q08. I still think it's a decent case option although I'm not looking that the Antec Three Hundred. It's big yes, but it seems to be built well and it's only about $60. There's room for a lot of drives in that case. The Antec 300 is one of my favorite cases: simple, effective. I have an Antec 900 that's just big and bulky, I'd love to replace it with a 300 for my main system and a future unRAID server.
February 24, 201115 yr The Northbridge is integrated into the die on the Core iSeries processors. The flaw is in the Cougar Point chipset, not in the iSeries CPU itself. Of course I'll wait to get a motherboard that's not impacted by this design flaw. It looks like corrected motherboards were to begin shipping at the end of February and ramp up through March. So it's not too far out. That's good, I had thought that I read it wouldn't be till April for the revised boards.
February 25, 201115 yr Author The Northbridge is integrated into the die on the Core iSeries processors. The flaw is in the Cougar Point chipset, not in the iSeries CPU itself. Of course I'll wait to get a motherboard that's not impacted by this design flaw. It looks like corrected motherboards were to begin shipping at the end of February and ramp up through March. So it's not too far out. That's good, I had thought that I read it wouldn't be till April for the revised boards. It could be April, you never know.
February 25, 201115 yr Looking again at Supermicro, they have a couple boards with the LGA 1155 socket. The C7P67 in full ATX form factor with Realtek Ethernet and 8 SATA ports. They also have the C7Q67 in Micro ATX form with Intel NICs and 6 SATA ports. Looks like the C7P67 might be shipping now but both motherboards are still listed as coming soon on the Supermicro site. I don't know if these boards were impacted by the Core iSeries 3Gbps SATA problem or not. ... Decisions, decisions.... To add to your list of options, Supermicro has some new Xeon 1155 (Socket H2) boards coming out that have IPMI, dual Intel nics, 6 SATA ports (some have 2x SATA 6 ports and 4x SATA II) and 4 PCIe slots. This is the series I've been waiting for. I'm planning on changing my X7SPA-F out with the X9SCM-F and a Xeon 1220L. While the Atom does everything very well for file serving, it will lag when adding all the other things to the system. SM has held back on releasing those boards while the Cougar Point issue is resolved, but the Xeons aren't available yet either. I tend to lean towards Xeon solutions so I can use ECC memory, and the 1220L has a TDP of 20W, which is just stupid low. It's a lot of overkill that many on here would disagree with on the basis of cost and unnecessary complexity, but hey, it's my server.
February 25, 201115 yr ^^ 20w TDP on a SERVER processor?! :eek: That's just awesome! Yeah, it's a little nutty isn't it? For me it's between the 1220L and the 1260L (45w TDP, but a LOT more powerful). It'll all come down to price probably. References: CPUWorld Wikipedia
February 25, 201115 yr Yeah, it's a little nutty isn't it? For me it's between the 1220L and the 1260L (45w TDP, but a LOT more powerful). It'll all come down to price probably. References: CPUWorld Wikipedia Any idea what one of those 20w processors will cost once released?
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