Can I get some suggestions to build a new server around a 13th gen Intel and a Rosewill RSV-L4412U?

[Riverhawk]

I think I'm ready to build my second Unraid server. Some things I'm pretty sure I want:

• 13th Gen Intel: i9-13900K, i7-13700K or i5-13600K? I dunno...these keep coming up.
• 10GB network. Reading here 2.5GB isn't great?
• 2-4TB SSD cache pool. A pool of two drives is faster? Two 2TB Samsungs?
• 12 SATA drive support(Rosewill chassis has 12 hot swap).
• A motherboard with enough SATA connections that I would only need 1 additional LSI expander. As in, can someone recommend a motherboard that has 4 SATA connections then I get an expander with 8?
• LSI expander in IT mode.

 

So much info on these boards and I can't dig my feet into the sand on a choice. Things I don't know much about:

1. Is having a separate network card better than having it built into the motherboard?
2. Does Unraid still have issues with Intel HW transcoding with the 13Gen chips?
3. Is having multiple SSDs in the cache faster than just one for reads/writes?
4. Will hard drives have different speed performances if connected directly to a SATA port on the motherboard vs an expander?

 

I know this is a big ask, but it would greatly be appreciated for some compatible parts I can pull the trigger on. Any similar parts picker lists I can just steal? Thanks.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Riverhawk

[Hoopster]

1 hour ago, Riverhawk said:

motherboard with enough SATA connections that I would only need 1 additional LSI expander.

I like the Supermicro X13SAE-F

• 8 SATA ports
• IPMI
• 2.5 GbE
• 3 M.2 NVMe slots
• ATX

Here is very well-priced combo that includes, MB, I9-13900K CPU, 4U case compatible heatsink, 64GB RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD.  I (and many others in these forums) have purchased combos from this seller. Very good and reliable.

 

If you really want/need 10 gig networking, check out the ASRock W680D4U-2L2T/G5 available here.  Also here is the dual 1 GbE NIC version which is impossible to find right now.

• 4 SATA ports onboard; 4 more via OCuLink cable (I use one of these in my backup server and it works great)
• IPMI
• 2 1 GbE LAN ports
• 2 10 GbE LAN ports
• MicroATX

Both boards support DDR5 ECC (and non-ECC) RAM. Hard to find right now but Supermicro has these 32GB ECC modules for only $112 each.

 

NOTE: I do not own either motherboard but they are what I have been researching for next build.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Hoopster

[Hoopster]

47 minutes ago, Riverhawk said:

Will hard drives have different speed performances if connected directly to a SATA port on the motherboard vs an expander

Not in my experience.  Speeds are the same whether connected to MB directly or my Dell H310 (LSI 9211-8i clone) HBA.

[Riverhawk]

Whoa, awesome info. Thank you @Hoopster.

 

How come I rarely see Supermicro mentioned for motherboard choices? It's usually Asus, Gigabyte, and ASRock.

 

So with that OCuLink cable, are you saying I won't need a controller then? Am I turning one motherboard SATA port into 4? Does that affect r/w speeds?

 

You think air cooling is good enough for the 13th gen Intel? The gaming folks water cool them. Do we typically need it for a few 4k transcoding streams?

[Hoopster]

30 minutes ago, Riverhawk said:

So with that OCuLink cable, are you saying I won't need a controller then? Am I turning one motherboard SATA port into 4?

No, the OCuLink cable goes in a special connector on the motherboard.  From it, you get 4 additional SATA ports (for a total of 8 with the 4 on the motherboard). No impact on read/write speeds. On the ASRock board I linked, there are actually 4 OCuLink connectors but only one can be used for SATA ports, the others are for PCIe x4 devices.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Riverhawk said:

How come I rarely see Supermicro mentioned for motherboard choices?

There are many Unraid users with Supermicro-based systems.  They specialize in server and high-end workstation motherboards and tend to be on the more expensive side compared to consumer/gaming motherboards  Even the ASRock boards are from their server-focused division which is ASRock Rack.  They just also happen to make consumer/gaming motherboards unlike Supermicro.

 

30 minutes ago, Riverhawk said:

Do you think air cooling is good enough for the 13th gen Intel? The gaming folks water cool them.

In general, water cooling is not recommended on Unraid servers; especially ones that will be in operation 24x7.  Water cooling is more susceptible to failure whereas air cooling is considered more reliable even if it does not provide the same cooling power.

 

The 13900K/13700K are 125W TDP CPUs which will  dissipate 200-250W under heavy loads.  Personally, I plan on using the Noctua NH-D12L air cooler in my server which is in a  Silverstone CS380 case.  It has a cooler height limit of 146mm and the Noctua cooler is 145mm in height.  The specs mention it fits in many 4U cases.  This NH-D12L is also rated by Noctua to handle the 13900K and 13700K CPUs even in highly overclocked/heavy load situations.

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Hoopster

[JonathanM]

One quick nit, the terminology "expander" doesn't quite fit what you really need at this stage. You are really looking for a HBA controller, the word expander is more typically used for a special piece of equipment that connects to the HBA and splits the ports to allow many more drives. They don't work by themselves, they must be connected to a compatible HBA.

 

I'd hate for you to find a "deal" on an expander only to find out it's not going to work for you as is.

[ljm42]

What a great thread, thanks!

 

I'm looking for a 4U rack mount case as well. The Rosewell was at the top of my list but then I found the Sliger CX4712, anyone have thoughts on this? https://sliger.com/products/rackmount/4u/cx4712/

 

I had been looking at the ASRock board but I was bummed that it only has one M2 NVMe slot. Would really prefer to have redundancy on the cache drive.

 

Thanks for that Supermicro board, it has 3 M2 NVMe slots and more PCI slots too. nice. I'd need to use one of them for a 10GbE nic but that's ok.

 

Either way, I like the W680 chipset because it supports ECC RAM.  And both have 8 SATA ports without an HBA which is nice. 

 

I was planning on water cooling the CPU to help with noise, but I'll take a look at that Noctua fan too. Have you done any research on noise for that Noctua?

 

I also have an RTX 3080 that will add to the power and heat dissipation requirements of this system.

 

Have you pulled the trigger on this yet @Riverhawk or @Hoopster ?

[Hoopster]

43 minutes ago, ljm42 said:

Have you done any research on noise for that Noctua?

I have the NH-D12L cooler in my Silverstone CS380 right now.  Can't really hear it except when CPU is under heavy load and even then it is very quiet. There are other noisier things in the room so I have to be real close to the server to hear the fans.

 

I have decided to hold off a bit on the upgrade.  There really is no compelling reason for me to do so right now.  I may wait until 15th generation on the Intel CPUs. 

 

If I were to upgrade today, it would probably be the Supermicro X13SAE-F and an i7-13700K CPU.  I am not sure how I feel about a 125W TDP CPU that can dissipate over 250W under load.  That seems like a lot of heat.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Hoopster

[Riverhawk]

14 hours ago, ljm42 said:

Have you pulled the trigger on this yet @Riverhawk or @Hoopster ?

 

I spent some time thinking about it and went with this part list. Just finished running memtest overnight and I'm about to load up Unraid.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Nw4hW4

 

I think the thing that scared me the most was the Supermicro mobo potentially not supporting the CPU out-of-the-box without a bios update. I also wanted 10GB on the mobo.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Riverhawk

[ljm42]

Thanks @Hoopster, really nice to hear that the fan is quiet.  Appreciate your advice here. I don't know if you remember, but we both have nearly the same Lian Li system too. It is that 9 year old system that I am looking at replacing, the BMC stopped responding and I'm having other issues that look hardware related. It had a good run.

 

@Riverhawk thanks for the parts list, it looks awesome. I'd love to see pics of how it all fits into the Rosewell case if you'd like to show that off : )  Do you have room to add a GPU down the road?  Also, how you feel about the noise?

[Hoopster]

54 minutes ago, ljm42 said:

the BMC stopped responding

The BMC stopped responding on my E3C246D2I as well.  Even reflashing the BMC chip did not help.  Fortunately, I put the E3C246D2I (replacing an E3C226D2I) in the Lian-Li case just last year and the server boards have a three-year warranty.  ASRock replaced it under RMA.  All is well again.

[Hoopster]

Here is a great combo for $1000:

• SuperMicro X13SAE-F W680
• Intel i7-13700K
• 64GB DDR5 ECC RAM
• Dynatron 3U heatsink/fan