When to use HBA and when to use SATA expansion card?

[Thedinotamer]

If I go for this build, will I even need a HBA card since all the drives will be inside the case or will a SATA card suffice?

 

but if I go for this build and then if I need extra drives I buy a drive shelf, is this when HBA cards is needed?

[Wody]

Both boards you picked have 4 SATA connectors, so with your configuration, you currently have 32TB of storage, and can add another drive with 18TB when you need it without having to add anything else.

 

Assuming you don't want to replace drives, you could add a sata card, but an HBA will probably be a lot cheaper, since you can often buy older used models for much cheaper than sata cards, and with less problems and more speed (sata cards often have port multipliers which limit the speed or have very buggy firmware causing weird errors).

 

If you do want to buy a 'drive shelf', mostly it depends on how you connect it. If it has sata or esata, then you'd need to connect to a sata card, but if it is a SAS shelf, it would have something like SFF-8088 and you would need an HBA to communicate with it, and you could connect your other drives to it too, with a forward breakout cable.

 

Unraid won't care how you connect drives though, as long as it can see them.

 

[Thedinotamer]

@Wody how does four SATA connectors result in 32TB + 18TB? Can the motherboard only support a limited amount of storage? If I understand it correctly, I will need a HBA card if I want larger storage no matter what. Also, both boards I have chosen have four M.2 slots in case I want to add a second cache pool in the future, which means some of the SATA connectors will get disabled as I add more drives which is why I am thinking of getting a HBA card

 

Edit: I was thinking of a SAS shelf but I kind of want to avoid having a drive shelf because it will take so much space since I am going to live in a smaller apartment. But the define 7 XL is pretty big in itself which is why I am contemplating going with the R5 which is a bit smaller. If you have any opinions on this I would gladly hear them because I am having a very hard time choosing 😅

Edited April 6 by Thedinotamer

[Wody]

11 hours ago, Thedinotamer said:

@Wody how does four SATA connectors result in 32TB + 18TB?

In your parts list, you have 3 drives, two 16TB ones, and a free 18TB one. Since your parity drive has to be at least as large, or larger than your data drives, that means you'd have to use the 18TB as parity drive, and the other 2 as data drives, meaning you can store 32TB. Since it has 4 SATA slots, I assumed you could use them all, and add another 18TB later as a data drive, but I didn't read the motherboard manual so I wasn't aware that you can add only 3 (which is a very small amount).

 

Anyway, it really depends on how much storage you need. If you're pretty sure that the space you have is enough, or you'll replace disks when needed (since they make them up to 24TB now), you'll probably want to stick with the smaller case and the SATA or SAS card. If you think you'll have enough with about 10 drives or so, get the bigger case, but if you need a lot more, and have space for shelves somewhere, either case for how much you need now, but skip SATA.

 

Alternatively, you could choose a board with 8 SATA slots, but an older chipset like the Z690 for around the same price.

 

I have some define XL cases (or R2), so if you go for big, I'd also recommend one of those stands with wheels, so it is a lot easier to work with if you need to add drives and pull it out because of the weight. I also went with a HBA/SAS (but used cards because cheap), because it has 4 ports per cable, so it is much less likely that you pull some other cable if you are working with the drives.

Also you can then buy used SAS drives which some companies sell pretty cheap just because they are a few years old. And you wouldn't even have to worry about internal or external ports much because you can easily add expanders or more cards, I got an Adaptec aec-82885t which I got for about the same price as your SATA card (it is cheaper now) but lets me hook up 24 internal drives, and 2 disk shelves. (and you can stick it in a PCIe slot for power, or just stick it anywhere in the case and use a Molex, the data goes with a SAS cable, and for the external ones, the cable could be up to 10 meter/33feet)

 

 

[Thedinotamer]

@Wody if I use this HBA card and an expander, can’t I use SFF 8087 cables to be able to use SATA drives? I’m aiming to use the drives in my list. If this is the case, I could technically use the 7 XL and fill out the drive cages as needed without the need for external devices?

[Wody]

4 hours ago, Thedinotamer said:

@Wody if I use this HBA card and an expander, can’t I use SFF 8087 cables to be able to use SATA drives?

The price is high for it, but that card works great for SATA drives, and with those SFF-8087 connections you'd use what is called a forward breakout cable, that has a SFF-8087 at the end of the card, but 'breaks out' into 4 SATA connectors to connect to drives. (They also make reverse breakout cables where the sata cables connect to the motherboard and the SFF-8087 is at the drive end for servers, because some wires are switched. If you hook such a cable up the other way, no drives would be detected)

Of course if you have a drive-cage that uses SFF-8087 then you could use that too.

 

So with that card, you would be able to hook up 8 drives, and when you need more, and get an expander, move one cable to the expander, connect the expander to the HBA, and connect the rest of the drives to the expander. Or get another card, whatever is more convenient at the time.

 

 

[Thedinotamer]

@Wody I have put together my build now and is very happy with it. All of this should just work right, or do I need to flash the expander to IT mode too?

Edited April 11 by Thedinotamer

[Wody]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:08 PM, Thedinotamer said:

@Wody I have put together my build now and is very happy with it. All of this should just work right, or do I need to flash the expander to IT mode too?

Looks good. According to the ad, the 9207 is already running in IT mode and with 20.00.07 firmware which was the last one for that card, so you don't have to do anything for it. But, if you want to, you can of course re-flash the firmware (and bios) yourself. The cables seem okay too, although they don't say forward breakout, the description uses the right words (from 9207).

The case comes with some fans, but not all of them that fit, it will be fine with what you have, but when you get more disks, you'll want to add more fans too.

 

[Thedinotamer]

@Wody Thx for tip. But I was more thinking if the expander card is plug n play or if that also needs to be flashed into IT mode or something?

[Wody]

On 4/13/2024 at 3:39 PM, Thedinotamer said:

@Wody Thx for tip. But I was more thinking if the expander card is plug n play or if that also needs to be flashed into IT mode or something?

It is plug and play, you just need to connect a cable from the HBA to it, they usually do have firmware, but its more like a switch-device, it just passes information.

[Thedinotamer]

@Wody ah, ok. Thx for the help.