Hello,

 

Prospective user here looking to set up my first NAS and interested in possibly using Unraid as the OS.  I recently backed the 6 Bay DXP6800 Ugreen NASync on on Kickstarter.  I have concerns about the new/untested software these units will be shipping with and found Unraid from doing research on good replacement OS.  I have already purchased 6 14TB WD Red Pro HDDs and 2 1TB NVME SSDs which maxes out the available respective slots for this device.  I was looking to get advice on how best to configure the various hard drives to best meet my use cases.  I am hoping to use my NAS for plex, photo/file storage and access remotely, running surveillance cameras, recipe management, and possibly many other things once I dive in.   A couple specific questions are had are:

 

1. Surveillance Storage: I plan to use my NAS for storing surveillance footage. To avoid the constant writes from the cameras negatively impacting the overall storage array, I am considering using one of the 14TB drives as 'unassigned' device for the surveillance data. I don't need parity or redundancy for this footage. Is having the surveillance drive as a separate 'unassigned' device a good approach for this use case?

 

2. Cache Pool: I only have the 2 1TB NVMe SSDs and no additional slots for future expansion. Would it be best to use these SSDs as a mirrored cache pool for the main 5-drive 14TB array? I plan to run Plex and a photo backup solution like Immich or Nextcloud via Docker. How should I best utilize these 2 SSDs? Should I format them as ZFS or BTRFS?

 

3. Main Array Configuration: For the other 5 14TB HDDs, I plan to set them up as the main array with 1 drive dedicated to parity/redundancy. Should I configure this array as ZFS or XFS? My setup is maxed out, so I don't plan to add more HDDs in the future. Does this affect your recommendations?

I would recommend this:

no unraid default cache disk pool recreate it as a zfs raidz1
Array Disk 1: NVME and Parity NVME

then 
3x 14 TB drives in a pool zfs raid z1
then another pool

3x14 TB drive pool in zfs raid z1

I would recommend calling the zfs pools named CCTV and Cache

This give you 2 zfs protected pools (raid 5 strip,mirrroed and party), so 1 for your video storage and 1 for longterm storage

While giving you a fast nvme powered array for vms and dockers. most of the Unriad use data data would be here. (you would have to tell teh application to live there...

To do this You would need to install a few plugins to make this work well.
any and all zfs plugins:

6.12.10:

 

In this configuration, you might use other plugins for backup.

 

Then your main shares and nas data would exist on the cache pool (about 28 TB of space) and CCTV for survile data shared (also about 28TB of space...)
with the ability to lose a disk and keep your data. Following the 321 backup rules: https://www.seagate.com/blog/what-is-a-3-2-1-backup-strategy/
 

You could also do other configurations. The above is my recommend for full data retention

 

Edited May 28, 20242 yr by bmartino1

In the end it's how you want to interact with the hardware. As HD fail(average MTF 3-5 years. Enterprise 10...) and you want min downtime and ability to keep using your data.
 
Since you wish to keep a 14TB separate for storage. I recommend making a single unprotected disk pool using xfs filesystem type drive in the array. Unassigned disk still counts towards the # disk. That plugin is more for usb or temp connected HD to transfer in and or off the unraid box.

https://unraid.net/pricing
You would need 2nd tier due to over # 6 of disk connected:
Unleashed License

$109Per License
after 30 day trial

This leaves:
5 14TB WD Red Pro HDDs and 2 1TB NVME SSD to assemble:
Review:
https://docs.unraid.net/unraid-os/manual/storage-management/
https://docs.unraid.net/unraid-os/manual/what-is-unraid/

You now need to keep in mind your systems processor/igpu/pcie expansion(gpu for transcode) etc.. You need a location for Vm vdisk if you use. and location for program files installs (dockers)

Default unraid like to keep them on the default pool as a btrfs file system disk: /mnt/cache
and the dockers installs themselves in the appdata folder on cache:


in the 1st pot i recomend them in a data retention pool also called cache to not break templates default locations..
as long as you openm the setting and chose the corect folders this can go any where..

You mentions plex/nextcloud for dlna media access and storage.
There data needs to be accessbile and have a location for there own data.

Where is plex data folder? where is nextcloud data folder?

I would actually point you towards photo prism docker and photo sysnc. Nextcloud is a pain to setup and maintain. while photosync can connect and copy to mutiple types of data for phot backup.

It is easy to get carred array with dockers and plugins to do something:


so keep in mind taht docer runtime files are default in appdata, the data in the dockers may not always be.

in my case example:

plex content is on my zfs raid z1 while its run time dat are on my nvme on the cace pool

Edited May 28, 20242 yr by bmartino1

I'm not sure what cpu you will get and its capabilities:
https://www.itpro.com/infrastructure/servers-and-storage/ugreen-nasync-dxp6800-pro-review-an-affordable-nas-alternative-to-qnap-and-synology

just keep in mind of your ram and resources. this is idle: with 32 GB of ram


Remember that Unraid load into ram from usb for its OS and use. with plex runing and data transfers I use a good 16 GB if not more. you may only have or get 8...

so we need a place to store camera phots, a palce to install dockers, a place for dockers to use data for dlna media, a photo backup data location and general NAS shares for xyz machine to access

I personaly prefer to use unraids array disk 1 partiy / cahced default setup for unraid services and tools.

Now that you know:
as You needs may vary. I would still recommend a

3x 14TB zfs raid z1, 1x 14TB as xfs unprotected for Cameras.
this leave 2x14 TB for use and 2x NVME for use.

You would need to satisy unraid disk 1 min requirements to use the system. It is also recommend to have a parity drive.
so i could also recommend 
Array:
14TB  Disk 1
14TB Parity (mirro Disk 1)-protected backup for unraid services and data.

Pool
cache use (the non top slot on the MB) 1 nvme
the other nvme unasigned.(used latter for a vm disk by id pass or pcie passthorugh direct to VM...)

1x 14 TB xfs for CCTV
3x 14 raidz1 zfs (28+/- some) to backup into.

Use the array for dockers and there data.
 

1 hour ago, bmartino1 said:

I would recommend this:

no unraid default cache disk pool recreate it as a zfs raidz1
Array Disk 1: NVME and Parity NVME

then 
3x 14 TB drives in a pool zfs raid z1
then another pool

3x14 TB drive pool in zfs raid z1

I would recommend calling the zfs pools named CCTV and Cache

This give you 2 zfs protected pools (raid 5 strip,mirrroed and party), so 1 for your video storage and 1 for longterm storage

While giving you a fast nvme powered array for vms and dockers. most of the Unriad use data data would be here. (you would have to tell teh application to live there...
 

 

First off thank you so much for the detailed reply!  The one question I have about the first recommended set up is regarding having 2 separate 3x14TB pools.  If I am not concerned about having any data protection for the CCTV I am curious if that changes your recommendation here to be 1 x 14TB pool for CCTV and a protected 5 x 14TB for all other data?  Or do you see any downsides to doing that?

1 hour ago, bmartino1 said:

You now need to keep in mind your systems processor/igpu/pcie expansion(gpu for transcode) etc.. You need a location for Vm vdisk if you use. and location for program files installs (dockers)

Default unraid like to keep them on the default pool as a btrfs file system disk: /mnt/cache
and the dockers installs themselves in the appdata folder on cache:


in the 1st pot i recomend them in a data retention pool also called cache to not break templates default locations..
as long as you openm the setting and chose the corect folders this can go any where..

You mentions plex/nextcloud for dlna media access and storage.
There data needs to be accessbile and have a location for there own data.

Where is plex data folder? where is nextcloud data folder?

I would actually point you towards photo prism docker and photo sysnc. Nextcloud is a pain to setup and maintain. while photosync can connect and copy to mutiple types of data for phot backup.

 

For VMs if I go with your initial recommendation to have my 2 1TB NVMEs as Array Disk 1: NVME and Parity NVME could i store all my VM Vdisk and docker data on the NVME SSDs?

 

I will look into photo prism docker and photo sysnc thanks for the recommendation!

1 hour ago, bmartino1 said:

I'm not sure what cpu you will get and its capabilities:
https://www.itpro.com/infrastructure/servers-and-storage/ugreen-nasync-dxp6800-pro-review-an-affordable-nas-alternative-to-qnap-and-synology

just keep in mind of your ram and resources. this is idle: with 32 GB of ram


Remember that Unraid load into ram from usb for its OS and use. with plex runing and data transfers I use a good 16 GB if not more. you may only have or get 8...


 

I purchased 64 gb of aftermarket ram to load on my NAS right away.  The unit comes with the Intel Core i5-1235U as CPU.

39 minutes ago, wollumeg said:

I purchased 64 gb of aftermarket ram to load on my NAS right away.  The unit comes with the Intel Core i5-1235U as CPU.

Perfect! I've found 32 GB to be more than enough atm for multi server uses.
 

 

42 minutes ago, wollumeg said:

For VMs if I go with your initial recommendation to have my 2 1TB NVMEs as Array Disk 1: NVME and Parity NVME could i store all my VM Vdisk and docker data on the NVME SSDs?

 

I will look into photo prism docker and photo sysnc thanks for the recommendation!

48 minutes ago, wollumeg said:

First off thank you so much for the detailed reply!  The one question I have about the first recommended set up is regarding having 2 separate 3x14TB pools.  If I am not concerned about having any data protection for the CCTV I am curious if that changes your recommendation here to be 1 x 14TB pool for CCTV and a protected 5 x 14TB for all other data?  Or do you see any downsides to doing that?

You could move to a 5 raidz2 (raid 5 and could lose 2 disk with out losing data.)

Yes vm vdisk and docker app data are configurable in unraid.

Example:

 

vm settings dictate alot of what your asking.
I can choose where I want vdisk to live. in my case I didn't like Unraids default folder "domains" so I delete it. I made a folder VM that exist on my NVME Array.
In my appdata folder existing on a WD ssd. you could have a nvme be a single cache disk. on a friend we have a similar setup but his on the array.

I recommend in that case to run 
NVME disk 1 and parity
14 TB xfs as a named cctv pool disk
5x 14TB raid z2 as a named cache pool > 42 TB granted and can be a bit more

you can then tell appdata to live on the array
most unraid templates will default to /mnt/user/appdata

other templates don't want to use the "FUSE" symbolic link and chose the direct storage path.
/mnt/cache/appdata/%folder name% 



 

Edited May 28, 20242 yr by bmartino1

17 hours ago, bmartino1 said:

Perfect! I've found 32 GB to be more than enough atm for multi server uses.
 

 

You could move to a 5 raidz2 (raid 5 and could lose 2 disk with out losing data.)

Yes vm vdisk and docker app data are configurable in unraid.

Example:

Wow this example looks pretty similar to what I was envisioning from your advice.  The array would be my 2 1TB NVME SDDs  (1 for parity) that would store my VM Vdisk and docker data.  I would have a single 14TB HDD for CCTV.  I would have 5 14TB HDDs to store my shares besides the VM Vdisk and docker data and CCTV data.  I feel a bit like I am not using Unraid in the way it was meant to with the majority of my data not being in the main array.  

 

Edited May 29, 20242 yr by wollumeg

Quote

Wow this example looks pretty similar to what I was envisioning from your advice.  The array would be my 2 1TB NVME SDDs  (1 for parity) that would store my VM Vdisk and docker data.  I would have a single 14TB HDD for CCTV.  I would have 5 14TB HDDs to store my shares besides the VM Vdisk and docker data and CCTV data.  I feel a bit like I am not using Unraid in the way it was meant to with the majority of my data not being in the main array.  

I understand.

Per the Unraid doc the original way was to use xfs and muti disk with a single large parity.

Example if I had 
5x 2 TB drive and 1x 10 TB drive

Unraid would want 4 as disk 1,2,3,4 and the 10 TB as parity.
The other could be a disk but would most likely be an unprotected single cache disk array.

This is because the party drive would be a mirrored backup to all the disk 1,2,3,4

xfs is used here and is fine for this type of setup and file system. Then zfs came along.

With unriads evolution and acceptance of the ZFS FS format, some of that has changed.
Due to issues with using zfs as the file system as the array and for ease of use it is recommended to run the zfs as a pool device.

Per forum talk. There is another evolution coming with muti disk array setup options and fixes. 
Unraidd 6.13 has other upgrades and bug fixes.

Edited May 29, 20242 yr by bmartino1

3 hours ago, bmartino1 said:

Per forum talk. There is another evolution coming with muti disk array setup options and fixes. 
Unraidd 6.13 has other upgrades and bug fixes.

Wow starting looking at that and it seems like Unraid 6.13 (or version 7) will be release to public sometime this week https://www.youtube.com/shorts/M2oKb9iu4R0

4 hours ago, bmartino1 said:

This is because the party drive would be a mirrored backup to all the disk 1,2,3,4

It would not!    You only need a 2TB parity disk to protect those drives, and the only reason for having a 10TB one would be that you later intend to add 10TB data drives to the main array

1 hour ago, itimpi said:

It would not!    You only need a 2TB parity disk to protect those drives, and the only reason for having a 10TB one would be that you later intend to add 10TB data drives to the main array

That was my understanding.
that parity is party across all disk. not just disk 1...  I've left that for the zfs pool system. Thank you for that update.

I will have to  Review the docs on that again:
https://docs.unraid.net/unraid-os/manual/storage-management/
https://docs.unraid.net/unraid-os/manual/what-is-unraid/

 

Quote

By themselves, these devices are unprotected and should any of them fail, data will be lost. To protect ourselves from failure, we must add a fourth disk to serve as parity. The parity disk must be of equal or greater size than the largest data disk.

^per the docs disk 1,2,3 would be parity. I i fill disk 1,2,3 with 2 TB a 2 TB disk won't keep parity.
the parity should be the same for a single disk to mirror, or bigger to accommodate all the disks in the array.

Is that not correct, then we need to fix the documentation!
https://docs.unraid.net/unraid-os/manual/what-is-unraid/#:~:text=The parity disk must be of equal or greater size than the largest data disk.

Edited May 29, 20242 yr by bmartino1
not sure what itimpi is refering too...

59 minutes ago, wollumeg said:

Wow starting looking at that and it seems like Unraid 6.13 (or version 7) will be release to public sometime this week https://www.youtube.com/shorts/M2oKb9iu4R0

Awesome. Thank you for the YouTube short I will send around to my friends.