Does this version provide better read / write speeds so that it can be used for recording with HTPC apps such as SageTV?

If used with a cache drive, yes. Of course, the cache drive will need to be large enough to accommodate what you're planning to store, until it's dumped to the array.

How frequently does the cache drive dump? (or is there somewhere else I can read this information)

How frequently does the cache drive dump? (or is there somewhere else I can read this information)

It is run from cron once a day at 4:30 AM by default, you can probably do it as often as you would like. Schedule is configurable.  It is a shell script.

lines extracted from crontab -l command:

# Generated mover schedule:
40 3 * * * /usr/local/sbin/mover | logger 2>&1

 

Read about it in the release notes:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=1731.msg11937#msg11937

How frequently does the cache drive dump? (or is there somewhere else I can read this information)

It is run from cron once a day at 4:30 AM by default, you can probably do it as often as you would like. Schedule is configurable.  It is a shell script.

lines extracted from crontab -l command:

# Generated mover schedule:
40 3 * * * /usr/local/sbin/mover | logger 2>&1

 

Read about it in the release notes:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=1731.msg11937#msg11937

 

...and there is a "Move Now" Button to activate an immediate Move, if you so choose to run at manual interval...

Does this version provide better read / write speeds so that it can be used for recording with HTPC apps such as SageTV?

 

It should provide a doubling or better of write speed, and the few early reports seem to confirm that.

 

It would be nice to see someone with User Shares, a cache drive, and a Parity drive take the time to run some tests, and provide 3 numbers: Write speed direct to a data disk, Write speed to a User Share without Cache disk, and Write speed to a User Share with Cache disk, assuming all other factors being relatively equal, such as speed of the drives and their interfaces/busses, similar write position on the drives (all to beginning of drives, or all to half-filled drives, etc).

 

The cache drive should definitely make a noticeable difference to those who want to stream multiple recordings to unRAID.  I'm a fellow SageTV user, but I have my own position on this though.  Some recordings are too important to me to risk stutter, unsatisfactory performance.  I prefer NOT to risk it.  I am in a poorer position than most, with my SageTV server on an old P3 board with a gigabit card that only too easily appears to saturate the older PCI bus, at which point the network stack crashes, and I (horror of horror) lose recordings.  But even with a better server, my preference would be to save ALL recordings locally, then periodically move large numbers of selected recordings to my unRAID server.  Write performance will not be an issue for me therefore.

 

Since I implemented the cache drive, my recordings do not playback correctly in Sagetv.  The file sizes are fine but when I play them the timebar skips 10 to 15 minutes and ends the show in like 5 seconds.. The video plays but the itme bar is screwed up...

 

Any ideas?

Is this true for all recordings?

What is the size of a recording that's messed up?

Is this recording still on the cache drive?

 

Trying to find out if a recording still on the cache drive plays back ok, but then stops to play back ok after being moved to the array.

 

An incorrect timebar is a rare but occasional problem in SageTV.  I believe there are 2 main causes, either timeline corruption within the recording, or good recording but mis-analysis of it by SageTV when it found the recording and added it to its database.  You will need to determine which, by trying to play the recording with some other playback software, such as Windows Media Player, VLC, etc.

 

If the other software also has playback issues, possibly very different, but still wrong, then the problem is in the recording itself, and you will need something like VideoRedo's QuickStreamFix to correct the recording.

 

If the recording plays fine in other players, but not in SageTV, then it needs to be re-analyzed by SageTV.  The best way I have found, is to pseudo-delete the recording, then 'undelete' it, so it 'finds' it anew, and correctly analyzes its timeline.  I rename the recording, by adding something (like a q) to the end of the filename, then delete it from within SageTV, thereby deleting the recording info from SageTV's database, but not the actual file.  Then I rename it back (undo whatever I added to the filename), then wait for SageTV's 5 minute recordings folders scan.  When it re-appears in the Recordings list, then test it for correct playback.

 

Both problems are usually caused by peaks of high CPU activity, but could be caused by delays in the requested streamed block, either during the recording, or when SageTV found and analyzed the recording, and mis-timed it.  This kind of problem is much less likely on faster CPU's, on the SageTV server, or playback client.  I don't see how it could be related to the cache drive, even when moved, because the apparent recordings path would not change.  There might be a small glitch at the moment of movement, from cache drive to permanent home, but that seems an extremely unlikely coincidence.  (These are just my own thoughts and opinions, based on my own experiences, could be faulty.)

 

An incorrect timebar is a rare but occasional problem in SageTV.  I believe there are 2 main causes, either timeline corruption within the recording, or good recording but mis-analysis of it by SageTV when it found the recording and added it to its database.  You will need to determine which, by trying to play the recording with some other playback software, such as Windows Media Player, VLC, etc.

 

If the other software also has playback issues, possibly very different, but still wrong, then the problem is in the recording itself, and you will need something like VideoRedo's QuickStreamFix to correct the recording.

 

If the recording plays fine in other players, but not in SageTV, then it needs to be re-analyzed by SageTV.  The best way I have found, is to pseudo-delete the recording, then 'undelete' it, so it 'finds' it anew, and correctly analyzes its timeline.  I rename the recording, by adding something (like a q) to the end of the filename, then delete it from within SageTV, thereby deleting the recording info from SageTV's database, but not the actual file.  Then I rename it back (undo whatever I added to the filename), then wait for SageTV's 5 minute recordings folders scan.  When it re-appears in the Recordings list, then test it for correct playback.

 

Both problems are usually caused by peaks of high CPU activity, but could be caused by delays in the requested streamed block, either during the recording, or when SageTV found and analyzed the recording, and mis-timed it.  This kind of problem is much less likely on faster CPU's, on the SageTV server, or playback client.  I don't see how it could be related to the cache drive, even when moved, because the apparent recordings path would not change.  There might be a small glitch at the moment of movement, from cache drive to permanent home, but that seems an extremely unlikely coincidence.  (These are just my own thoughts and opinions, based on my own experiences, could be faulty.)

 

 

All recordings seem to play fine through VLC Media Player.  Does this mean I need a faster processor... I am currently using an AMD Athlon 64 x2 Dual Core 4000+

My take: if SageTV is so resource consuming on such a CPU, forget SageTV

 

There are so many, SO nice alternatives. (inc. free)

 

 

You have proved that the recordings are uncorrupted, so the recording process is saving the file correctly.  So then, it is either a playback issue from the unRAID server, or a timing mis-analysis by SageTV.  You can try my method for getting SageTV to re-analyze the files.

 

As to the processor, you should have no problems with SD recordings, but I'm not as confident about HD stuff.  It *should* be OK, so long as you have a decent video card with hardware acceleration, etc.  But this is a little OT...

 

By the way, since you added a cache drive, have you checked that you are still getting good read performance from your unRAID drives, both the cache drive and the data drives?  Need to make sure something didn't change internally, after the installation, causing PIO modes.

 

VLC uses its own codecs, and from all reports they seem to be well optimized, sometimes providing smoother playback than SageTV, which uses both system default codecs and its own.  But that should not matter normally, only in marginal situations.

 

My take: if SageTV is so resource consuming on such a CPU, forget SageTV

 

There are so many, SO nice alternatives. (inc. free)

 

Now, them's fightin' words, to most SageTV users! 

 

Yes, SageTV *is* resource hungry, and yes there are other alternatives, including some free ones, BUT...  We don't agree there are any GOOD alternatives to SageTV.  Nothing else has the power and flexibility, and huge feature set and ongoing constant development that SageTV does.  Yes, it is better for those who don't mind the work it takes sometimes to get working correctly, like almost all PVR software packages, especially the free ones, but there is no end of customizing you can do, as well as the lack of limits on its design.  Nothing is really free.  Is a program free that has no charge, but takes a month to get working, if at all, and still can't do many of the things SageTV can, with a week of work and tweaking and customizing?

 

Probably the closest competition right now is the Vista MCE package.  It is easier to setup, looks great, and is very usable.  But it is very limited, compared to SageTV's client/server design, broad compatibility, great expandability, plugins and user extensions, good customization ability, very helpful forums, excellent extenders, playback clients, and placeshifters.

 

For a non-technical user with little time to spare, your best choice is to grab your cable companies PVR deal.

 

now now

 

this are not words to be typed from the fingers of a linux friend

 

there are alternatives and I was even careful not to write "better" just... nice

 

 

This is off topic, but since it came up here, thought I would ask for some guidance.  RobJ, looks like you are an expert!

 

I am a long-time DirecTV/DTIVO user, but am ready to switch to SageTV.

 

I had SageTV set up briefly on my HTPC (client) and an older computer (server), but not tweaked at all.  It worked well until I decommissioned the old computer and did the unRAID disk shuffle.

 

I want to setup SageTV for real.  I have a new Windows box in my basement (Q6600 w/ 4Gig memory running XP) that will run SageTV.  This server sits right next to my unRAID box.  It has about 1.2T of disk for video.  I plan to leave this box running 24x7.

 

I have an HD Home Run and a good cable company that offers most HD channels in the clear.  My primary viewing is in my home office / home theater room, where I have an HTPC that willl run the SageTV client. I had this running before.

 

I also have a cable box that descrambles about 5 channels that I would love to be able to access through SageTV, even using a SageTV controlled remote to change channels on this box.  I don't know what hardware I'd need to do this or how to set this up.

 

The part I am the most fuzzy on is that I also want to pump SDTV (via composite video) to my whole house video distribution system, that feeds an SDTV in my kitchen and MBR.

 

Q1:  Will my digital cable signals (some HD and some 480i/p) play on an SDTV source via composite video?

Q2:  If I want 2 more tuners (for SDTV use only), what hardware should I get?  Again, the cable is DIGITAL not analog.

Q3:  WAF is a huge concern.  She loves TIVO.  I need a remote control that is very easy so she will never know she is using a computer.  Any advice here?  (I have IR repeaters down to my basement)

Q4:  Can you point me to a good source for tweaking SageTV?  I checked out the forum but it was information overload.  I don't know where to get started.  I'd like to be able to use ffdshow to resize if that is advised.

 

Thanks for any guidance!

 

The whole HTPC scene, PVR's, SD/HD, sound formats, video formats, diverse signal sources, etc etc, has gotten so big, that I don't think there is such a thing as an expert.  I like to think I understand my little niche fairly well, but as to the rest, and in particular your case, I am rather deficient.  I have never used DirecTV, TIVO, QAM, have no digital sources, and due to my awful financial shape, have had to postpone even thinking about HD.  So I'm not sure how much I can help, the forums are better for answering questions like yours, but I'll attempt a few comments.

 

A1:  I'm not sure I understand Q1, so this may be off.  The recording of the signal from a digital source is a completely separate operation from playback.  Assuming unencrypted digital cable channels, like local channels, you would use tuners designed to record unencrypted QAM, and the recordings would be saved to disk files, typically MPG's.  To playback any media file, including MPG's, you would output to the TV-out of a video card, typically an svideo connector, to which you can attach the svideo-to-composite adapter, that often comes with said video card.  Then connect any composite device to that.  'Live' playback is just a variation on the above, in that you are playing back from the MPG a few seconds behind its recording/save to the MPG file.

 

A2: Again, I don't have experience here, but as I understand, you will need digital tuners, for recording QAM.  I *think* your HDHomerun should be able to do this.  As you've indicated, the digital signal can be HD or SD, it is just a matter of resolution and bitrate.

 

A3: There are sections of the manual on setting up most remotes.  Almost any remote can be used, with the right configuration of receiver and software, such as USB-UIRT, Girder, Event Ghost, HIP, or already built into SageTV.  I believe that support is already in SageTV for the Hauppauge remotes, HD extender remote, and Microsoft MCE remote and its clones, and possibly others.  Many users like the Firefly, Harmony remotes, and some like and use the TIVO remote itself.  And there is support for JP1 type remotes (whatever they are!).

 

A4: It can be somewhat overwhelming at first.  I would recommend getting the basics working first, then check out the SageMC alternate interface, an easier more MCE like interface.  Brent is a very helpful user, with a very nice blog, who came over to SageTV not too long ago from BeyondTV.  He has some very good pages for getting started, and an excellent intro and installation guide to SageMC and other topics.  Start here, and check out the links to Brent's pages:  http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=265490&postcount=2.

 

As to your scrambled channels, you run into the whole DRM/HDCP mess.  There's a lot of excitement among many SageTV users about a new product, the Hauppauge HD PVR, coming in May or June that captures the component output of a cable or satellite box.  See this thread:  http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32027.

 

I won't be offended in any way if you ask the same questions on the SageTV forums, for better and more authoritative answers.  Hope I helped a little, but we are all learning here.

 

Thanks RobJ!

 

I wish everything was as easy as setting up unRAID!

 

A1:  Makes sense.  I'm just wondering what a 16x9 HDTV source would look like played back through composite video.  Probably pretty crappy by HDTV standards, but hopefully at least as good as SDTV quality.  The player would have to downsize the image.

 

A2:  The HD Home Run costs ~$200.  I know I could get another, but wondered if there were alternatives for non-HD (but still digital) sources.  I'll look at Hauppauge offerings and see what I can find.

 

A3:  I have a "FireFly" remote from a BeyondTV package I bought.  I am just not very happy with the result.  I had to press 2 or 3 times to get the key to be recognized.  Maybe I got a dud.  I saw a user commenting favorably about the Hauppauge remote.  Maybe that's a better choice.

 

A4:  Not sure I'm clear on the difference between SageTV and SageMC.  I'll study this more.

 

Any thoughts on recording output from a cable box (for encrypted channels like HBO)?

 

I have a lot of homework to do to get up to speed on this.  Thanks very much for your help!

 

Upon further review I have found that this issue is only happens when HD recording is taking place.  Is this a processor speed issue?

Upon further review I have found that this issue is only happens when HD recording is taking place.  Is this a processor speed issue?

 

I don't know, but I doubt it.  HD playback needs a good CPU, but HD recording normally does not.  As you probably know, unlike analog SD, recording HD is a rather simple process.  You don't have a choice as to bitrate or format or aspect ratio or anything else, as that is decided at the source of the signal.  They have already encoded the HD, so all the tuner has to do is capture the HD signal, stream it to the computer, where it is saved to disk.  It is roughly 3 times the data, so that could be an issue, but not likely to require much additional CPU time.

 

The recordings are fine.. its the playback thats screwed up...

A1:  Makes sense.  I'm just wondering what a 16x9 HDTV source would look like played back through composite video.  Probably pretty crappy by HDTV standards, but hopefully at least as good as SDTV quality.  The player would have to downsize the image.

 

At best, it would look like composite video (without over-the-air noise), but only if the machine doing the transcoding/downconversion is hefty enough.  If not, it will look like stuttering composite video!  Transcoding is a lot of work.

 

A3:  I have a "FireFly" remote from a BeyondTV package I bought.  I am just not very happy with the result.  I had to press 2 or 3 times to get the key to be recognized.  Maybe I got a dud.  I saw a user commenting favorably about the Hauppauge remote.  Maybe that's a better choice.

 

Many are happy with Harmony remotes, and there are threads on using the TIVO remote.  I like my Hauppauge, but it is not as 'fancy' as the others.

 

A4:  Not sure I'm clear on the difference between SageTV and SageMC.  I'll study this more.

 

It is only recently that SageTV came to be known officially as SageTV Media Center, which has caused some naming confusion.  SageTV allows you to replace the user interface, and SageMC is a strong user-built and constantly improving replacement interface, designed more like the MCE look, works best as a 10' interface.

 

The recordings are fine.. its the playback thats screwed up...

 

HD playback does have much higher CPU and video card and overall system performance requirements.

 

I cringe when, in answer to a question about some lower powered component, someone will indicate they have that component or comparable, and they get good HD performance.  They may, but from all reports, few others would.  They may have worked out exactly the right combination of CPU, video card, motherboard, bus speeds, hard disk performance, and stripped down operating system, no antivirus and absolute minimum background processes, essentially a dedicated playback machine.

 

Heavier loads require heavier machinery and more horsepower.  It is entirely possible to pull a large trailer behind a small economy car, and you might not have a problem if you aren't going far, and it's flat land.  But you will be re-thinking that combination once you start up the first hill!  HD is a big hill.