It occurred to me (as i am currently speccing a new box) that uNRAID doesnt have a base hardware spec.

 

yes it has the official motherboard listed in a few places and a hint at the CPU but after that details get hazy.

 

The wiki also has a list of "Hardware Compatibility" but realistically this is not an accurate list based on it being compiled by just about anyone.

 

I propose we compile a base build. This base build would follow the following design criteria:

 

As cheap as possible (striking a compromise between performance)

Use on brand name components

Use only components available globally that are not rare

Have an eye on potential upgradability but not at a cost penalty

Favour kit used by Limetech

Based on 17 drives including a cache drive

Based on SATA

Unless there is a very good reason pick one option only (i.e. dont confuse users by offering up 2 choices when 1 will do)

Make things as simple as possible.

 

 

The last point is the most interesting one. A new user should be able to go to the wiki, make a list and purchase 100% compatible known to be working kit. This process should involve as little research and reading for new users as possible.

 

To this end I have created a new section in the existing wiki page. I will keep my notes there but would really appreciate any assistance anyone could give.

 

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hardware_Compatibility#Base_Build

 

I/we should be completely open to any thoughts at this stage but once we have agreed a list it should only really be changed if kit becomes rare, obsolete, too slow. Superseding kit with better versions should be down slowly and with much debate.

OK I have made my first pass at it. Comments invited.

I really like the idea, but am not sure how flexible it is given ever-changing prices and availability of components.  Another potential solution to the same problem is for us to do a better job of publicizing common configurations run by community members.  That way someone can just mimic what another has purchased.

 

The key difference between your suggestion and mine is variety - you are offering a single base build whereas I am suggesting perhaps 5-10 configs be highlighted.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that selection of many of the components are not critical.  I.e. memory, CPU, graphics, and PSU.  Mobo, SATA add-on cards, NIC, and USB keys are "the biggies" with case + drive backplanes as a close second.  Choice of drives is somewhere in the middle.

 

So perhaps a couple of base standards for mobo+SATA+USB and case+backplanes?

 

 

Bill

Definitely think we could expand this to other builds as well... from base build to Extreme build. The key is to break the current cycle of something making the "compatible list" after one user has one success story. It should be many users, many success storys over an extended period of time. In software land this would be the old less featured but rock solid stable version.

 

Some things may be more critical than we think though. for instance alot of people elsewhere have had stability problems with 2.0V RAM on the Asus P5B-VM DO. Im not saying this is true but it could be and this is where a standard build really pays off... its can help users with weird "almost unique to them problems". Then we look at PSU.... theres not a week that goes by without someone suggesting a low power PSU could be the source of a problem. By suggesting one we know works with xxx drives we can head these problems off at the pass.

 

What I am really aiming for here is a simple first step for new adopters that dont want to spend alot of time reading the forums and researching (or literally dont have the skill to understand them properly) .

 

As for the ever changing price of components a truer word has never been said. However most of the kit in the list will get cheaper so this is really an added bonus.

I think that there was a pretty good start here ...

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2133.0

 

Its a good sign that there is quite a large overlap between my independently researched list and this one. I would suggest that using the for want of a better term official Asus board comes would be superior. First off there will be a large userbase using it already. Secondly we know its rock solid and thirdly and most importantly Limetech have likely tested the death out of it and will continue to test new releases against it. Thats alot of plus points.

 

I will do some research into the E2180 CPU you recommened.

 

Are we happy that the PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W can support 17*1TB HDDs and the rest of the base build hardware?

OK i done some more research and came to the conclusion that the E2180 CPU should probably be the base CPU at some point but not yet since uNRAID doesn't currently support its capabilities and we don't have any ETA/roadmap when it will. The way CPUs prices drop it makes sense to buy the cheaper single core now and upgrade later to the best multi core at the time the feature is available.

 

I have ordered the exact kit listed in the wiki and will be rebuilding one of my boxes with this kit. My aim is reliability and not speed aka the base hardware. I will maintain the wiki list should any of the kit prove problematic and update with any specific config changes needed for this kit.

Where did you find P5B VM DO motherboards available?

I was just going to post that too. It seems that MB is being dropped because some places list it as not available anymore. But then, it's still on Newegg.

 

To me, there should be a few different options.

 

I found the ECS A740GM-M board listed here in the motherboard section. It was cheaper than an Intel solution and not to bad with 6 SATA ports. You can almost get this board and a processor for what the Asus board costs itself. My server has been working great on this board.

 

One of the motherboard lists, I believe it's the one in your link, had a lot of boards that are not available anymore so I gave up after not finding 3 or 4 of the listed ones. Well, there were some still available but they were more than the ECS (some up to 2x) and no onboard video, which of course has it's pluses and minuses. However, I would have to buy a PCI or PCIx video card for one of these boards since I don't have an old one.

 

So, sure it would be nice to list a known good build but there are a lot of ways to build a working server.

 

Peter

 

I just called my supplier and said get me this list of kit so they definately are still being sold. Just checked google and there are loads of places still selling the board in the EU still. Its something we have to watch out for though we dont recommend kit that cant be sourced but im not sure were at that point yet with any of the kit in the current base build.

 

 

 

So, sure it would be nice to list a known good build but there are a lot of ways to build a working server.

 

Thats totally spot on. But it is equally true, and we know this from the support requests on the forum, that there are lots of ways to build a non working server. There will always be users that want to recyle old kit, other who will want beading edge hardware but this list is for neither of these groups... it is for another group of users who dont want to experiment or spend time trying things and would rather just buy kit known to work (and by known to work i mean really known to work and not a couple of forum posts by a couple of users saying it works).

 

Fairly trivial stuff really.

 

p.s. this kit cost me $226 USD (thats converting currency and with some discount). Good value for money though and im sure if people shpped about they could do better.

 

ASUS P5B-VM DO iQ965 Socket 775 onboard VGA 8 channel audio mATX Motherboard

Crucial 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL6 Lifetime Warranty

Intel Celeron 440 2.00GHz Socket 775 FSB800 512kb Retail Boxed Processor

Arctic Cooling AC-FRZ-7P Freezer 7 Pro Socket 775 Processor Cooler

 

There is a P5E VM DO that is available for purchase. A Google search of the P5B VM DO did not yield anything available, at least not in the states.

...A Google search of the P5B VM DO did not yield anything available, at least not in the states.

 

They are definately getting rarer but my USA google search found 6 stores stocking them. Here is a random store

 

https://usm.channelonline.com/rtech/storesite/Products/Overview/?id=M004148030

 

"Sell Price: $134.00

In Stock: 10"

 

Also there are several available on ebay Canada and USA.

 

Certainly not as cheap as here but in stock none the less.

 

As I said, the P5E VM DO is available.

 

The the P5B VM DO is not.

 

They are not the same MB.

 

Here is a link to the deactivated item at newegg:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131085

 

Here is a link to the available item at newegg:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131222

 

Not sure all the differences, but I know that the P5B has a 4x and a 16x PCI-E slot, while the P5E has a 1x and a 16x slot.

 

Sorry about that. Do we know what boards Limetech ship with now?

I am not sure.  I beleive that he has continued to use P5B VM DO motherboards (I am assuming he had purchased a significant quantity and still had them).

 

I have yet to see a post saying that they bought a system from Tom and it had a different motherboard.

 

This post, however, seems to imply that Tom and co. are at least testing out the P5E VM DO motherboard.  (The BIOS update procedures is a bit scarey!)

 

I applaud your effort to try and put together a workable and well-conceived unRAID configuration, but think that we need to be careful in making it too much more than "a good option suggested by NAS".  Many users have posted their configurations, and many and varied configurations are in existance that work quite well for unRAID.  Decisions to purchase specific components are a combination of factors including forum user experience, current pricing, availability, and brand preference.  Many components, including the CPU a person decides to use, the brand of memory, and the case are personal choices and users should feel comfortable making those decisions without feeling they are going against some defined standard.  Picking out the components is half the fun for many users!

 

But the motherboard is such an important aspect of compatibility that I think it deserves more attention.  Users have no good resource to see what other users are using and what special accomodations are needed for the MB to work (e.g., can't use IDE ports, need special boot options, special BIOS settings, etc.).  Certain users are also having specific problem upgrading to the 4.3.x versions of unRAID due to apprarent MB issues.  The wiki is very weak in this area.

 

If, in fact, it turns out that Tom is using the P5E VM DO motherboard in his new builds - I would suggest that new users seriously consider that motherboard.  Not because it is "better" but because Tom will do his testing with that specific motherboard and users will benefit from knowing that his test suite ran successsfully.  I paid a premium for a P5B VM DO which were quickly becoming unavailable at that time of my purchase.  Even though I could have gotten a comparable MB for $40 less, I am happy with my decision, and confident that Tom will continue to test with this MB for the forseeable future.  That was worth $40 to me.

 

It would be nice if Tom communicated the motherboards he tests with, as anything he tests with would be high on my list of MBs to buy.

 

....

 

It would be nice if Tom communicated the motherboards he tests with, as anything he tests with would be high on my list of MBs to buy.

 

Your right. The reason im so focused on this is that after a long long time I have realised my older MB just isnt stable or compatible. I purchased it based on a forum post or 2 forever ago saying it was fine and worked well. It certainly seemed to work well but in reality was as stable as a elephant standing on eggs. And thats the key point which you already hinted at, the only reliably stable boards are the ones the developer tests with.

 

The list is simple and if all it does is get users to stop and think that it might be worth spending a few bucks instead of hoping random kit will work then its been worth it. I think it add a bit of perspective to the compatible hardware list which to my eye is more a list of probably stable hardware.

 

In a perfect world we could all buy kit from Tom but its a big world and its just not cost effective to get it shipped to the EU.

A small update. I have successfully purchased installed and booted the base build kit now.

 

Interestingly even though the specs of my previous system were higher than the base build on paper at least (except RAM) this new system response and boot is WAY faster.

 

Im not going to say the system is "approved" or "stable test" but so far so good.

I do not understand why you are continuing to recommend a motherboard that is not available.  If you found a P5B VM DO, post the link as I'm sure many users would be interested.  But to create a new "base configuration" and recommend components that people can't buy is worse than useless.

I found a few places that still have them. I'm not to sure about the reliability of these stores so please double check before you buy anything from them.

 

http://www.saucertek.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=632&zenid=9eb5312e42354a570ff417b66e4ed077

 

http://www.pcplanetsystems.com/abc/product_details.php?category_id=115&item_id=2267

 

and of course here is ebay.

 

I have to agree with bjp999. As you (NAS) said in the first post "Use only components available globally that are not rare"

 

This would lead new users on a wild goose change that would eventually land them on the forums asking for recommendations on a motherboard.

The base build should change when the unRAID commercial product changes or you REALLY cant get the board.

 

It took me all of 2 minutes to phone up the shop and say can I have one please (it really was that simple). Yes i suppose its possible i could have got the last board on the planet but i suspect thats a bit unlikely. More likely is there are still loads out there but not listed as well as they were.

 

Theres really no need to be so negative and say things like "worse than useless"...lets make a fairly sensible assumption that there are other potential suppliers in the world you haven't heard of an other users may have.

 

 

 

 

The base build should change when the unRAID commercial product changes or you REALLY cant get the board.

 

It took me all of 2 minutes to phone up the shop and say can I have one please (it really was that simple). Yes i suppose its possible i could have got the last board on the planet but i suspect thats a bit unlikely. More likely is there are still loads out there but not listed as well as they were.

 

I asked a couple times for you to post a link to where you got the board (which you ignored).  In another thread you confused the P5B with the P5E so I wasn't sure we were even talking about the same motherboard.  I'm still not sure I know what MB you bought!

 

Thanks to CrashnBrn for posting some useful links that may help some forum users.  I spent about 5 minutes doing searches and following dead links and "out of stock" quantities before giving up.  I think others would do the same without a helpful pointer in the right direction.  Why won't you also communicate where you bought your board?

 

There have been a number of posts of people trying to buy that board a month or so ago, and not being able to find it.  But it does look like, if you search long and hard, you may be able to find one now.  A month from now?  Who knows.  I agree with you that it is the best board to buy if you can find one at a reasonable price, but there are a lot of good alternatives.

 

Theres really no need to be so negative and say things like "worse than useless"...lets make a fairly sensible assumption that there are other potential suppliers in the world you haven't heard of an other users may have.

 

I'm just concerned that a new user come along, sees the recommended build and takes it as a requirement, spends 15 minutes googling and can't find that baord, gets frustrated, and move on.  The base build should not discourage use.  I'm afraid that including an obsolete board will hurt rather than help unRAID sales.  That was my context of "worse than useless" remark.  You sometimes ignore my more subtle arguments, so decided to try a more direct approach.    Sorry if it was a little offensive.

Understood. Just FYI it is definitely the P5B-VM DO i purchased.

 

I am ALL for changing this board in the base spec.. i really am. However i want to balance that with the purpose of the build list. The absolute worst thing we could do is recommend a setup that isn't stable. I am very very wary of this as my last setup worked 99+% of the time but under certain scenarios you could crash it out. In theory at least this means that some of the kit people says work probably doesn't work in every way that a every users might need it to.

 

All this will be old hat soon anyway since unless Tom has 1000 of these on a shelf he will need to list a new board.

 

Also if he does have a 1000 of these perhaps he could consider selling them commercially. If you remove the heavy parts from the commercial product like case, HDDs PSU etc then shipping worldwide becomes viable. This would likely be a very attractive product offering.

 

On a similar note if I was based in the USA i would be spending an hour phoning around to see if i could get a dozen of these and would sell them here.

 

Understood. Just FYI it is definitely the P5B-VM DO i purchased.

 

I think you actually bought a P5E VM DO and are just trying to pretend!   

 

I am ALL for changing this board in the base spec.. i really am. However i want to balance that with the purpose of the build list. The absolute worst thing we could do is recommend a setup that isn't stable. I am very very wary of this as my last setup worked 99+% of the time but under certain scenarios you could crash it out. In theory at least this means that some of the kit people says work probably doesn't work in every way that a every users might need it to.

 

There is no such thing as 100% stable.  It a user wants a supported solution, they should buy one from LimeTech.  Shouldn't THAT be the "base configuration"?

 

All this will be old hat soon anyway since unless Tom has 1000 of these on a shelf he will need to list a new board.

 

No telling how long Tom's supply would last - could be months or years!

 

Also if he does have a 1000 of these perhaps he could consider selling them commercially. If you remove the heavy parts from the commercial product like case, HDDs PSU etc then shipping worldwide becomes viable. This would likely be a very attractive product offering.

 

That's Tom's call.  Note that Tom DOES sell several components, including a VERY nice case at a VERY reasonable price.  Not sure why you aren't mentioning and linking Tom's offerings in your writeup.  You are taking food out of Tom's kids' mouths and likely fulfulling Joe L.'s worst fear that Tom will starve without renameing the restore button!

 

On a similar note if I was based in the USA i would be spending an hour phoning around to see if i could get a dozen of these and would sell them here.

 

I'll stick with my day job.

Yes your right Tom should be selling all parts for all users of unRAID.

NAS, I believe that what you were trying to do here was a good idea, a very worthy effort, even if its first iteration turned out to have a serious snag.  And useful info can be found in the discussion above, even if it becomes a little salty at times.  I think it just needs a little rethought, a change in direction, because new users still need the guidance.

 

I very much agree that many users should just go with Tom's offerings, the best choice for simple setup and stable operation.  But there is always going to be segment of the market, like many of us here, that are do-it-yourself'ers at heart, that will always want to build our own machine, and customize it in ways we can't with a prebuilt machine.  It's one of the real advantages of the current versions of unRAID, that it is so hardware compatible and portable, that it lends itself well to the DIY market.  So I have a few ideas...

 

Idea 1:  I think there's an opportunity for Tom here, to offer several levels of DIY kits, and a barebone machine.  Perhaps a motherboard kit, complete with RAM, CPU and CPU cooler installed, and a barebone kit with same motherboard kit installed in a case plus power supply plus unRAID license.  As well as sell the individual components.  This may very well satisfy many different kinds of users, with differing levels of DIY experience, and at the same time allow Tom to make a little more money off the DIY'ers.  He might want to provide 2 different motherboard setups, one for value and the other for performance, and they would instantly be the recommended and tested boards for everyone.

 

Idea 2:  Quite obvious and used often elsewhere, ask users to list their motherboards and builds in their sigs.  It's an easy way for new users to see what veteran users are happy with, but we unRAID users have rarely provided such info.  One special request here for Tom though, the sig size is too small currently.  I don't want to see giant sigs, but a small increase I think is necessary.  I would love to add Best of the Forums and a little build info to my sig, but don't have the spare bytes.  The limit is currently 300, how about 500 bytes?

 

Idea 3:  Run a poll perhaps every 6 months, listing commonly used boards, to help others see what boards are currently most popular.  I don't generally care for polls, as they often seem silly, or agenda-driven, or have too few votes to provide credible recommendations.  But this seems like a legitimate use, if we get at least a reasonable response, and if the list has a significant number of boards plus Other (which will always be the largest vote-getter), then it serves part of the purpose of presenting a base build.  It would be good to have an early post in the poll thread that included links to primary threads for each board, threads that include pros and cons, BIOS recommendations, gotchas, etc for each board.

 

Edit:  NAS, may I request you restore at least some of that Wiki section?  The intent is still good and helpful.