40 TB unRAID Server: What components to buy?

[kwanbis]

Hello guys. I’m trying to find the most cost effective solution to a problem I have. Let me explain it. Today I have a HTPC capable of 3D and 1080p that is being use with XBMC. At this point I’m not interested on any type of gaming, maybe a little bit of nostalgia emulation.

 

In case anyone is interested it is comprised of:

 

1 Intel Core i3-2100 with stock fan http://amzn.com/B004JEVGMO

1 Ultra Durable 4 Classic GA-B75N Desktop Motherboard http://amzn.com/B00B9WIM0I

1 ASUS EAH6570 Radeon HD 6570 Video Card http://amzn.com/B004X8EOB6

1 SY1225SL12L Slip Stream 120mm Case Fan

1 Rosewill Case and 1x 80mm Fan http://amzn.com/B004Q7FUG2

 

The HTPC connects through USB 3.0 to two Mediasonic H8R2-SU3S2 http://amzn.com/B005GYDMYQ RAID towers. On each tower I have 2 JBOD configurations: 4 x 3TB (12TB) and 4x 2TB (8TB) for a total of 20TB per tower. One tower is a backups of the other, kind of a manual RAID 1.

 

Now I’m about to fill both towers, and I want to create a new 40 TB tower (10 x 4 TB) that I would backup on the old two towers.

 

I’m evaluating two options: OPTION 1: create a low cost/low power server that can host the 10 hard drives and use some sort of software raid, and OPTION 2: create a “server/htpc” combo that would serve both purposes.

 

But since we are on the unRAID forums, lets focus here on SERVER OPTION.

 

The option here is to build a low cost, low power, low noise and high availability server. I know that the cheapest the server, the lowest quality the components, so what I really mean is that for 300 dollars, or less if possible, the lowest power consumption, the lowest noise, and the best possible quality.

 

I would like to use software raid and windows 7 (licenses cost not included on the cost), but I’m open to suggestions on other forms of raid, hardware, unraid, flexraid, etc, and even Linux.

 

Just to be clear, I rather use Windows since I’m more familiar with it, but if really that much better I can use Linux.

 

This is the best I could do. Please notice that while I have made my best effort to make sure that all components are compatible, I have not been in the components business for quite a while, so I might have missed something:

 

COUGAR Evolution Black SECC $90 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811553002

Thermaltake SMART Series SP-550PCBUS 550W $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153172

Intel Celeron G1840 Haswell 2.8GHz LGA 1150 $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117301

GIGABYTE GA-B85M-D2V LGA 1150 $70 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128673

Kingston 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 $40 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820239312

Total is 300 + TAX.

 

Can I do it better, cheaper, more reliable, less noise, or any of those?

 

THANKS A LOT.

[Frank1940]

I don't see a SATA expansion card.  Your choice of motherboard has only six SATA ports on it.  From what I can see, you also need hardware to convert those 5.25" bays to hold 3.5" hard drives. 

[kwanbis]

I don't see a SATA expansion card.  Your choice of motherboard has only six SATA ports on it.  From what I can see, you also need hardware to convert those 5.25" bays to hold 3.5" hard drives.

You are right. So, any recommendation on SATA cards for my 5 sata ports need? Or maybe another motherboard with more SATA ports?

 

And finally, do you think I can use a slower/cheaper processor, a cheaper motherboard, and maybe a cheaper case or psu without sacrificing quality?

[meep]

Hi There

 

Just a couple of notes...

 

unRAID is a Linux based OS so you won't be needing a Windows Licence.

 

Also, if you're targeting 40TB, and assuming you're using 4TB drives, you'll need an eleventh 4TB drive to act as Parity and possibly a twelfth if you want to run an (optional) cache drive.

 

Finally, you mentioned possibly a combined server/htpc. This is now possible with unRAID through the magic of virtualisation. See the Virtualisation section of the forums here to get an idea of what that's all about.

 

(just to give you an idea of what's possible I'm currently running a storage server, TV server and two clients all in one box)

 

Good luck with the build!

 

Peter

 

[Frank1940]

I don't see a SATA expansion card.  Your choice of motherboard has only six SATA ports on it.  From what I can see, you also need hardware to convert those 5.25" bays to hold 3.5" hard drives.

You are right. So, any recommendation on SATA cards for my 5 sata ports need? Or maybe another motherboard with more SATA ports?

 

For cases, have a look in this thread:

 

      http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=17799.0

 

I am a fan of the Antec cases.  I have an Antec 900 and its nine 5.25" bays works great for my setup of just six drives.  I am using six monoprice hot-swap bays so that I can change drives without having to open the case and (more importantly) disturb the drive cables.  (Inadvertently loosening a power or SATA cable on another drive is a common problem when a drive is changed or added.)

 

A discussion of drive cages can be found in this WIKI entry:

 

      http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/5x3_and_4x3_Cages

 

I am not an expert in SATA cards but I believe you will only find them in one, two, four and eight port versions (Powers of 2.)  Your choice will be partially dictated by type of the card slots on your motherboard.  There is a discussion of cards in this thread:

 

      http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=12404.0

 

 

And finally, do you think I can use a slower/cheaper processor, a cheaper motherboard, and maybe a cheaper case or psu without sacrificing quality?

 

 

Replacing your processor and motherboard with less expensive components is a possibly if you don't plan on vitalization and/or running a lot of add-ins and/or transcoding video on the fly.  Look at my two servers.  The AMD sempron has all the computing power necessary to run bare-bones unRAID!

 

If you want to run version 6 with vitalization and a host of apps, you will probably want to move up to (at least) an Intel i3 and a motherboard that will support visualization.

[kwanbis]

Also, if you're targeting 40TB, and assuming you're using 4TB drives, you'll need an eleventh 4TB drive to act as Parity and possibly a twelfth if you want to run an (optional) cache drive.

 

Finally, you mentioned possibly a combined server/htpc. This is now possible with unRAID through the magic of virtualisation. See the Virtualisation section of the forums here to get an idea of what that's all about.

Thanks peter! I don't want to go more than 10 drives, if i need a parity drive, I would have 9 drives and the 10 would be parity.

 

I don't want to over complicate things with virtualization, but it is good to know. Thanks again.

[kwanbis]

For cases, have a look in this thread: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=17799.0

 

I am a fan of the Antec cases.  I have an Antec 900 and its nine 5.25" bays works great for my setup of just six drives.  I am using six monoprice hot-swap bays so that I can change drives without having to open the case and (more importantly) disturb the drive cables.

I would take a look at that thread. I liked the Antec 900, it has a great price, but I see only 9 bays? I actually need a minimum of 10, and maybe 1 more for the SSD, so it looks like it won't work, or do you think I can fit more hdds in there?

 

A discussion of drive cages can be found in this WIKI entry:  http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/5x3_and_4x3_Cages

I would take a look at it.

 

I am not an expert in SATA cards but I believe you will only find them in one, two, four and eight port versions (Powers of 2.)  Your choice will be partially dictated by type of the card slots on your motherboard.  There is a discussion of cards in this thread: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=12404.0

I would read that thread thanks again.

 

Replacing your processor and motherboard with less expensive components is a possibly if you don't plan on vitalization and/or running a lot of add-ins and/or transcoding video on the fly.  Look at my two servers.  The AMD sempron has all the computing power necessary to run bare-bones unRAID!

 

If you want to run version 6 with vitalization and a host of apps, you will probably want to move up to (at least) an Intel i3 and a motherboard that will support visualization.

Thanks for that info.

[Frank1940]

For cases, have a look in this thread: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=17799.0

 

I am a fan of the Antec cases.  I have an Antec 900 and its nine 5.25" bays works great for my setup of just six drives.  I am using six monoprice hot-swap bays so that I can change drives without having to open the case and (more importantly) disturb the drive cables.

I would take a look at that thread. I liked the Antec 900, it has a great price, but I see only 9 bays? I actually need a minimum of 10, and maybe 1 more for the SSD, so it looks like it won't work, or do you think I can fit more hdds in there?

 

That is why most people are using either 4-in-3 or 5-in-3 drive cages.  You can get either 12 or 15 drives into the Antec 900 using them.  It does drive the base cost up some but the one big advantage of unRAID over a standard RAID setup is that you can easily add another at any time in the future to expand the size of you array.  My main server started out with *5* 1TB drives (4TB array size) and I expended it slowly to its current 15TB size!  Cutting a couple of 4TB drives out your initial purchase would probably pay for the cages.

[SSD]

A little confusing what you are trying to do. Are you looking to use those mediasonic units with unRaid? Squeezing 8 drives through one usb3 or eSATA would not be recommended.

 

I'll offer a little advice on a new server build ...

 

1 - you need to evaluate the motherboard based on a few sometimes competing priorities.

 

(1) the number of drives you need to support. The MB will have 6-40 ports and you'll have to add controller cards for the rest. Controller cards take slots and you have to have enough slots of the right speeds.

(2) video passthrough will take a wide slot for the video card. Using the slot for a video card reduces the slots for controllers

(3) you want a MB that others have had success with. Bleeding edge can be an issue as Linux support is not as fast as Windows support.

(4) you'll want to be expandable to at least 16g ram. I'd suggest at least a single 8g chip allowing you to add a second chip to get to 16g. Or just go with a matched pair upfront.

(5) remote server management (IPMI) and ECC memory are options you might consider

 

 

2. invest in a case or addon units (5in3s) that allow you to easily replace disks. I cannot tell you how important this is for a good UnRaid experience.

 

3. Use locking SATA cables if you can.

 

4. Choose a single rail PSU. Your server is going to be running a lot. Do not pick bottom of the line!

 

Good luck!

 

[kwanbis]

A little confusing what you are trying to do. Are you looking to use those mediasonic units with unRaid? Squeezing 8 drives through one usb3 or eSATA would not be recommended.

I plan to use the unRAID server to serve content to a HTPC. The two current towers would be used to backup the unRAID server, by connecting them through USB (3.0 ideally) to the server, and doing weekly copy of the files.

 

(1) the number of drives you need to support. The MB will have 6-40 ports and you'll have to add controller cards for the rest. Controller cards take slots and you have to have enough slots of the right speeds.

Ideally I would need 11 drives: 10x4TB and 1 SSD for unRAID. I don’t know if unRAID can run from the drives where the information resides. In that case, I might do with the 10 x 4TB drives.

 

(2) video passthrough will take a wide slot for the video card. Using the slot for a video card reduces the slots for controllers

The mother/cpu combo of today have video. Why would I need a video card for a server?

 

(3) you want a MB that others have had success with. Bleeding edge can be an issue as Linux support is not as fast as Windows support.

Agreed, I don’t need bleeding edge. I need stability and the best price I can get without lossking stability/quality.

 

(4) you'll want to be expandable to at least 16g ram. I'd suggest at least a single 8g chip allowing you to add a second chip to get to 16g. Or just go with a matched pair upfront.

Agreed.

 

(5) remote server management (IPMI) and ECC memory are options you might consider

I would have to research what IPIMI is. Do we really need ECC memory in 2014?

 

2. invest in a case or addon units (5in3s) that allow you to easily replace disks. I cannot tell you how important this is for a good UnRaid experience.

Good idea.

 

3. Use locking SATA cables if you can.

Why? Any links?

 

4. Choose a single rail PSU. Your server is going to be running a lot. Do not pick bottom of the line!

What does it means single rail? Any recommendation.

 

THANKS!

[SSD]

A little confusing what you are trying to do. Are you looking to use those mediasonic units with unRaid? Squeezing 8 drives through one usb3 or eSATA would not be recommended.

I plan to use the unRAID server to serve content to a HTPC. The two current towers would be used to backup the unRAID server, by connecting them through USB (3.0 ideally) to the server, and doing weekly copy of the files.

 

(1) the number of drives you need to support. The MB will have 6-40 ports and you'll have to add controller cards for the rest. Controller cards take slots and you have to have enough slots of the right speeds.

Ideally I would need 11 drives: 10x4TB and 1 SSD for unRAID. I don’t know if unRAID can run from the drives where the information resides. In that case, I might do with the 10 x 4TB drives.

 

(2) video passthrough will take a wide slot for the video card. Using the slot for a video card reduces the slots for controllers

The mother/cpu combo of today have video. Why would I need a video card for a server?

 

Only if you want to connect your server directly to a TV. I must have misunderstood something in your post about what you were trying to do.

 

(3) you want a MB that others have had success with. Bleeding edge can be an issue as Linux support is not as fast as Windows support.

Agreed, I don’t need bleeding edge. I need stability and the best price I can get without lossking stability/quality.

 

(4) you'll want to be expandable to at least 16g ram. I'd suggest at least a single 8g chip allowing you to add a second chip to get to 16g. Or just go with a matched pair upfront.

Agreed.

 

(5) remote server management (IPMI) and ECC memory are options you might consider

I would have to research what IPIMI is. Do we really need ECC memory in 2014?

 

IPMI is a server board feature that allows you to do remote management of a server. You can litterally boot the server from a powered down state with IPMI, and change your BIOS settings from a remote complete. ECC is required for some server boards (I learned the hard way). Don't get me started. But if you pick a server MB you should probably opt for ECC memory.

 

2. invest in a case or addon units (5in3s) that allow you to easily replace disks. I cannot tell you how important this is for a good UnRaid experience.

Good idea.

 

3. Use locking SATA cables if you can.

Why? Any links?

 

$0.63 locking SATA cables from Monoprice

 

4. Choose a single rail PSU. Your server is going to be running a lot. Do not pick bottom of the line!

What does it means single rail? Any recommendation.

 

Look at the sticky in the hardware forum on PSUs. You'll find the most recommended ones there.

 

THANKS!

 

yw

[kwanbis]

Only if you want to connect your server directly to a TV. I must have misunderstood something in your post about what you were trying to do.

Well, if it is a server, I shouldn't need much video. I'm sure once I setup everything, I can connect using VNC or something similar, correct?

 

$0.63 locking SATA cables from Monoprice

My why meant to ask what are the advantages on using them.

 

4. Choose a single rail PSU. Your server is going to be running a lot. Do not pick bottom of the line!

I have been reading since you mentioned it, and what I have read is that if the PSU is up to 550w, it doesn't really matters. Or I'm wrong? Any recommendations?

[SSD]

I agree with you concerning unRaid being a server. But some users want it also to connect to the TV as the media player using an xbmc image. You need video passthrough to do this at high frame rates.

 

Locking cables do not get easily unplugged when working in the case. Cabling issues are very prevalent in the support forums and locking cables help avoid them.

 

Maybe someone wil respond with a PSU suggestion for you. The models change and since I haven't upgraded my PSU in a while I don't know the current models. Suggest you ask a specific question in that other thread. As far as single rail not mattering when size gets beefy, I don't think so. By splitting up the power on different rails you don't have all of the power available to your drives, which is where an unRaid server needs it. You can run out of power far below the PSUs power rating with multi rail designs. For example the GPU can needs a lot of power and it would be wasted in an unRaid server with a rail dedicated to the unused video connector.

[Fireball3]

I have been reading since you mentioned it, and what I have read is that if the PSU is up to 550w, it doesn't really matters. Or I'm wrong? Any recommendations?

 

The PSU thread.

 

There are PSU's out in the field, like some Enermax, that can be switched from multi-rail to single-rail.

There is much confusion about single and multi-rail though.

Some use the term for marketing others don't although they have single rails.

Some say multi-rail and have in fact a single rail.

You're safe if you get a dedicated single-rail.

Just make sure you have enough current [A] for start-up - it will determine the PSU dimensioning.

[meep]

Only if you want to connect your server directly to a TV. I must have misunderstood something in your post about what you were trying to do.

Well, if it is a server, I shouldn't need much video. I'm sure once I setup everything, I can connect using VNC or something similar, correct?

 

unRAID can run headless. It provides it's interface via an in-built web server so you access all functionality in your web browser. You can also telnet / ssh into the server for non-standard tasks.

 

 

[Frank1940]

Hard drives have a current spike which occurs when the spindle motor is spun up.  Normally this is not a problem as most computers have only one to four drives that have spindle motors. With unRAID, most systems have more than six and perhaps, as many as twenty-six!  There are several instances when all of these hard drives are spun at the same time.  Startup is only one of them.  It also happens when a parity check starts.  It also occurs when the array is stopped as a part of an orderly shutdown.  If the power supply can't deliver the peak power required, nasty things happen as the current monitoring circuitry in the power supply will basically shut off the 12V buss the INSTANT the current exceeds the set-point!  Some older drives had peak starting currents in the two ampere range and running currents around a quarter ampere.

 

Basically, when you are buying a power supply, you want to buy one made by well-known reputable manufacturer.  You want to make sure it has a single 12 volt rail.  (You won't be using a video card that requires a separate 12 volt power plug!)  And read those customer reviews.  They will tell if that PSU model that you are considering has proven to be reliable!

 

Remember, aside from the case, the PSU is the one piece of technology in the server that is the least likely to ever become obsolete! 

 

PS--- A single rail PSU will cost more than a multiple rail supply.  The components to built a 50 ampere 12 volt rail are more than to built two 25 ampere rails!

[Fireball3]

A single rail PSU will cost more than a multiple rail supply.  The components to built a 50 ampere 12 volt rail are more than to built two 25 ampere rails!

 

While I agree with the rest, this is not true.

The differences between brands (and the fact that you pay that more or less) are more price affecting.

 

[nxtiak]

Since you want to connect the two current units you want to the new one via USB 3.0, and you said you're more comfortable with Windows and software raid. Take a look at Windows 8 and its Drive Pool feature.

Pretty much it's just Windows with a bunch of HDDs attached and using Drive Pool to combine all the HDDs.

Then it can truly be a real HTPC and do whatever you want easily then hook up the USB 3.0 and copy backup your files.

Play games, browse web, etc.

No need to mess with Linux, virtualization, etc.

I think people here are going overboard with their suggestions, using server motherboards and ecc memory.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Necrotic]

I didn't go through every post, but don't forget to add a UPS.