When I saw all my disks come up as unformatted I did not immediately just try and format them.  I stopped the array and restarted it and then just the newly precleared and added disk showed as unformatted.  I then went to our community and started this thread..  No data loss, a reasonable amount of caution, and some common sense.

 

The problem I have is, it is too easy to click that format button and have it access and format more then one disk.

I freaked when the array came up and all my disks said unformatted. But I wigged when I went to click stop and saw how easy it was to miss the stop button accidentally hit format without further verification.

 

It would have affected multiple disks. I've always had an issue with this.

I want to click on a disk and select what I want to do with it.

Adjust spin down

Run smart test / view smart log

spin up / down

unmount / mount

reiserfsck

format

 

The format button for the array needs to be removed from the front page.

This would slow down things for a brand new array. But for those who want speed, a shell script or advanced tool can help.

. . . and things (keyins) that can do major damage need a confirmation with appropriate explanation and warning!!!

barrygorden said it the best. I do not wish to keep adding to this thread to explain my opinion to you purko.

 

 

Yes I would and others in this situation if data loss were to occur would be in panic mode and would be very angry if it was related

to a bug like this and to no fault of my own, but it is not the end of the world and can be restored if it were to happen.

Just why do you keep insisting that it can be restored? 

In all the related posts I see reports they restored most of the files, but nobody said "I restored all files, it wasn't the end of the world."

 

It's not a matter of opinion.  It's a matter of making a statement that is not factually true. 

The only way you could prove it to be true is if you format your disks and then recover everything.

barrygorden said it the best. I do not wish to keep adding to this thread to explain my opinion to you purko.

 

 

Yes I would and others in this situation if data loss were to occur would be in panic mode and would be very angry if it was related

to a bug like this and to no fault of my own, but it is not the end of the world and can be restored if it were to happen.

Just why do you keep insisting that it can be restored? 

In all the related posts I see reports they restored most of the files, but nobody said "I restored all files, it wasn't the end of the world."

 

I guess you caught me on a technicality purko, I wasnt right to comment that you can do a full restore of this occurs, you were right that you can't fully restore all your data if this occurs and barrygorden was so right to say that you should have some sort of secondary backup too (I believe in this point too though you can't backup everything, you should back up some or at lease the most important data you treasure).

I was glad to learn from this and you have made me aware of the seriousness of this purko. Thanks.

 

It's not a matter of opinion.  It's a matter of making a statement that is not factually true.  

The only way you could prove it to be true is if you format your disks and then recover everything.

barrygorden said it the best. I do not wish to keep adding to this thread to explain my opinion to you purko.

 

 

Yes I would and others in this situation if data loss were to occur would be in panic mode and would be very angry if it was related

to a bug like this and to no fault of my own, but it is not the end of the world and can be restored if it were to happen.

Just why do you keep insisting that it can be restored?  

In all the related posts I see reports they restored most of the files, but nobody said "I restored all files, it wasn't the end of the world."

 

OK, refresh my memory - name one M$ bug that could cause you to loose all your data without the involvement of malware/hackers.

No? This is the big one, the mother of all bugs.

 

 

I see the following scenario several times per year on both Windows and MacOS computers:

 

The OS tells you that it wants to update something or other.  You click OK.  The OS takes a shit and does anything from a temporary wig-out to not being able to boot to a full-on reformat. 

 

I have seen every single one of those happen in client's computers, those aren't exaggerations.  I run a data recovery service, so I expect I see far more of these types of problems than the average computer user.  In every one of these cases I've been able to recover most if not all of the client's data.  However, it involved procedures and software a bit more complicated than just repairing a file tree (i.e. running reiserfsck).  Admittedly, it happens more often with MacOS than it does with Windows.  The last Windows bug I've seen (the one that resulted in the full reformat) was with Windows Vista, prior to the SP1 release, if memory serves.

OK, refresh my memory - name one M$ bug that could cause you to loose all your data without the involvement of malware/hackers.

No? This is the big one, the mother of all bugs.

 

 

I see the following scenario several times per year on both Windows and MacOS computers:

 

The OS tells you that it wants to update something or other.  You click OK.  The OS takes a shit and does anything from a temporary wig-out to not being able to boot to a full-on reformat. 

 

I have seen every single one of those happen in client's computers, those aren't exaggerations.  I run a data recovery service, so I expect I see far more of these types of problems than the average computer user.  In every one of these cases I've been able to recover most if not all of the client's data.  However, it involved procedures and software a bit more complicated than just repairing a file tree (i.e. running reiserfsck).  Admittedly, it happens more often with MacOS than it does with Windows.  The last Windows bug I've seen (the one that resulted in the full reformat) was with Windows Vista, prior to the SP1 release, if memory serves.

 

Do you mind elaborating - do you mean to say that users click update and the system reformates itself? That would be a new one for me. Believe I would have seen that one popping up in the media.

 

Or do you mean the user clicks update and the system renders itself unbootable? In that case, the DATA is in fact still present on the disk prior to reformating, right? The user could simply boot that linux boot-cd (forget it's name) or connect the disk via an usb-adapter to another computer to copy his DATA.

 

OK, refresh my memory - name one M$ bug that could cause you to loose all your data without the involvement of malware/hackers.

No? This is the big one, the mother of all bugs.

 

 

I see the following scenario several times per year on both Windows and MacOS computers:

 

The OS tells you that it wants to update something or other.  You click OK.  The OS takes a shit and does anything from a temporary wig-out to not being able to boot to a full-on reformat.  

 

I have seen every single one of those happen in client's computers, those aren't exaggerations.  I run a data recovery service, so I expect I see far more of these types of problems than the average computer user.  In every one of these cases I've been able to recover most if not all of the client's data.  However, it involved procedures and software a bit more complicated than just repairing a file tree (i.e. running reiserfsck).  Admittedly, it happens more often with MacOS than it does with Windows.  The last Windows bug I've seen (the one that resulted in the full reformat) was with Windows Vista, prior to the SP1 release, if memory serves.

 

Do you mind elaborating - do you mean to say that users click update and the system reformates itself? That would be a new one for me. Believe I would have seen that one popping up in the media.

 

Or do you mean the user clicks update and the system renders itself unbootable? In that case, the DATA is in fact still present on the disk prior to reformating, right? The user could simply boot that linux boot-cd (forget it's name) or connect the disk via an usb-adapter to another computer to copy his DATA.

 

 

Those are two different scenarios, and I have seen both.  Keep in mind that this is what the client tells me, in most cases I haven't seen it with my own two eyes, just the aftermath.  In one case a relatively new touchscreen HP running Vista told the user that it needed to update or repair something (I can't remember which, since I wasn't there when it happened).  When the user clicked OK, the system restarted and launched into a full reformat/reinstall of Vista (must have been from a recovery partition put there by HP, since there was no Vista disc in the optical drive).  The computer worked after that, but of course all the data was gone.  Luckily I was able to tell the client to stop using the computer immediately (minimizing overwritten data) and I was able to recover most of her stuff, though not all of it.  I suppose it is possible that this could have been caused by a virus or by some HP crapware and not by Vista directly.  By the time I got the computer all I could do was attempt data recovery.

 

The second scenario is one I have seen in person, and on countless client's and friend's computers.  This one is confined to MacOS as far as I can tell.  The system prompts you to install a system update in the standard way.  You click OK, the update is downloaded, installed, and then prompts a restart.  You restart and the system boots to a blank screen (usually off-white, sometimes with a grey loading circle that circles endlessly).  Basically what happened is that the update screwed up something vital and the system can no longer boot correctly.  These faulty updates usually do make the news, or at least the forums.  Usually Apple will come out with a fix within a few days, but I haven't yet seen one that will allow you to recover from the boot-to-blank-screen problem.  The only 'fix' I've found is to back up all the data (I generally accomplish this with another Mac and Firewire Target Disk mode), and then do a full reformat/reinstall of MacOS.  Definitely a pain, but at least it generally doesn't overwrite any data and all data is usually recoverable.  I continue to see this problem with all different makes and models of Macs several times per year, generally associated with larger system updates (akin to the service pack updates in the Windows world).  Therefore, my advice to all Mac users is to wait a week before installing any update, so that Apple has a chance to fix any problems that may come up.  NEVER update the day an update is released.  And definitely never allow your Mac to update itself automatically.

So - can anyone else name one M$ (That is slang for Microsoft..) bug that could cause you to loose all your data without the involvement of malware/hackers.

 

No?  I repeat myself - This is the big one, the mother of all bugs.

 

Lime ought to be right on top of this, sending out emails to their customers, putting up a warning on the webpage etc. I am disappointed  

When I add a new drive I preclear it manually and format it using unMenu - then add it to unRAID.  I will never accidently format my data by doing this.  I've been told that this creates an unsafe situation because while parity is being recalc'd the array is unprotected.  But to me, the probability that a drive will fail during the parity calc is pretty remote and the comfort I get just knowing my drives can't get accidently formatted is worth that.

 

The best thing that could be done is that the Format button was locked until the user acquired a text key that would be embedded in a wiki page that would explain the entire problem. 

When I add a new drive I preclear it manually and format it using unMenu - then add it to unRAID.

I've been told that this creates an unsafe situation because while parity is being recalc'd the array is unprotected.

Joe L. described a better way to do that by first adding the precleared disk to the array and then manually formatting it.

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=6186.msg59893#msg59893

That way you don't have tha unsafe situation, parity doesn't need to be recreated, and you're protected at all times.

 

When I add a new drive I preclear it manually and format it using unMenu - then add it to unRAID.

I've been told that this creates an unsafe situation because while parity is being recalc'd the array is unprotected.

Joe L. described a better way to do that by first adding the precleared disk to the array and then manually formatting it.

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=6186.msg59893#msg59893

That way you don't have tha unsafe situation, parity doesn't need to be recreated, and you're protected at all times.

 

 

Of course technically it's better but for the newbie it's too confusing and might lead to pressing that damn button.  Serenity Now!

The second scenario is one I have seen in person, and on countless client's and friend's computers.  This one is confined to MacOS as far as I can tell.  The system prompts you to install a system update in the standard way.  You click OK, the update is downloaded, installed, and then prompts a restart.  You restart and the system boots to a blank screen (usually off-white, sometimes with a grey loading circle that circles endlessly).  Basically what happened is that the update screwed up something vital and the system can no longer boot correctly.  These faulty updates usually do make the news, or at least the forums.  Usually Apple will come out with a fix within a few days, but I haven't yet seen one that will allow you to recover from the boot-to-blank-screen problem.  The only 'fix' I've found is to back up all the data (I generally accomplish this with another Mac and Firewire Target Disk mode), and then do a full reformat/reinstall of MacOS.  Definitely a pain, but at least it generally doesn't overwrite any data and all data is usually recoverable.  I continue to see this problem with all different makes and models of Macs several times per year, generally associated with larger system updates (akin to the service pack updates in the Windows world).  Therefore, my advice to all Mac users is to wait a week before installing any update, so that Apple has a chance to fix any problems that may come up.  NEVER update the day an update is released.  And definitely never allow your Mac to update itself automatically.

 

In all the years (since 1981) I've been running Apple Computers I've never seen this though i know it can happen. I have had FW drives disappear (once) and it scared the hell out of me because it was at least 6 months of ProTools recording sessions/album projects on the 2 drives, running DiskWarrior on the drives fixed it.

Rule#1 Make image file backups of your data and system drives with Superduper.

Rule#1a Keep data on a different drive then the system to minimize problems and loss.

Rule#2 Never let the computer do Automatic updates.

Rule#3 Never update unless you really, really need to for a really vaild reason.

Rule#4 If you do an update, download the updates and install manually. Also research it on the forums before you update.

Rule#5 Run Diskwarrior (a must have for Mac OS) once a month or so (repairs any directory problems before they become big problems) and before and after updates.

Rule#6 Make sure all 3rd party utillities like DiskWarrior are compatible with your version of OS.

I find the newer Mac OSs have fewer directory problems then older ones prior to 10.3.8 and are usually minor.

Very true Russ Uno.  I also rely on DiskWarrior for Mac data recovery, it is a fantastic bit of software.