Is my setup possible

[haliway]

Hi guys,

 

I´m new here and Unraid seems to be the jack of all trades tool that I have been waiting for, for at least 2 years. I would like to try Unraid (and buy if I´m satisfied) for a 2 gaming rigs and a NAS custom-built desktop computer but with specific requirements.

First of all, I would like to be able to build a multi purpose booting system with ESXI (My professional lab), Windows 10 (to be able to use my 2 graphic cards for max performances as well as being able to play multiplayer games without getting banned from Steam servers for having used a VM) and Unraid. Let´s say a 256GB booting SSD in RAID 1 for my Windows 10 no VM. But what about my ESXI and my Unraid installed on a USB flash storage device each. They will require SSD cache pool which is not supposed to be my WIndows SSD in RADI 1. Otherwise My setup will be: Intel multi core CPU supporting virtualization, 32GB (or 64) RAM, 2 GTX 1080TI, 3 or 4 high resolution screens, 1 PCI-E dual fibre channel adapter connected to 2 small brocade SAN switches which are themselves connected to a Nexenta box providing 24TB raw space. This storage will be primarily used for my ESXI lab but can possibly be used for the NAS feature as long as it doesn´t have to use the same LUNs (same blocks of raw space if you don´t know what a LUN is) or NFS shares as my lab. Nexenta can be used as a NAS but, once again, I prefer to build a local NAS/data distribution system with data protection for everything personal meaning that I don´t want my data protection to be configured on my Nexenta box (the rest of the nexenta box will be in RAID whose mode has to be decided). I can, of course, buy new hot swap disks to be installed directly in the desktop computer but I would rather use a bit of my already existing raw space for it.

I also have some questions :

 

- Do I need more than 2 graphic cards if I want to have 2 Windows 10 VMs for gaming (2 players at the same time when a friend pays me a visit and we can either have 1 or 2 screens each or use my handheld consoles GPD Win and Nvidia Shield to play games together thanks to the Steam streaming feature and Nvidia Gamestream) and some other VMs which might only require an emulated graphic card ?

 

- Is there any way around to have multi GPUs in one Windows 10 VM ?

 

- Is there any way around to share my Steam data between one Windows 10 VM and my not virtualized Windows 10 so I don´t have to download games twice (using the same volume provided by my SAN box maybe) ? I don´t even know if I could import Steam data in the Windows 10 where i didn´t install the game, use the same account on 2 different Windows and play local (it seems to be possible according to Linus Tech & Tips video) or online multiplayer games together with my friend in such a setup...

- Is there any way around to do the same thing between a Windows 10 VM and a Windows 7 VM (used for compatibility issue on some games) ? Does Unraid provide such a feature ?

 

- Can I install MacOS X (used for editing tools and IOS programming) as a VM in Unraid ? I want a proper installation and not something unstable with missing devices (sound, usb etc...).

- Is it possible to have 2 different graphic cards in the same computer ? I would like to have an older graphic card (max GTX960) to play older games on Windows XP (some games don´t boot properly on Windows 7 or Windows 10). Do you actually know if a no VM WIndows 10 supports graphic card selection (in case I have 2 GTX 1080TI + 1 GTX 960) ? Can I specify the right graphic card to use with a specific VM ?

 

- Does Unraid support IDE protocol in a Windows XP VM ? I would like to use an old DVD drive to create perfect dumps of my RETRO Collection using CDRWin (picky with DVD drives...). 

 

That was pretty much all my concerns to build an all-in-one box meeting my needs which are : using my computer as a native professional lab with ESXI, as a powerful native gaming pc as well as a 2 gaming rigs and a NAS + some extra VMs and containers under Unraid (a Windows 7 VM to be used with a GTX 1080 Ti when I have compatibility issue and that can be used only if I shut down one of the Windows 10 VM, a Windows XP VM using a GTX 960 at max to play old games having compatibility issues with Windows 7 or 10 + ripping my retro collection).
 

Edited August 8, 2017 by haliway

[JonathanM]

Unraid isn't designed to be dual booted with other OS's, or as a guest under ESXI. Some people are using it as a guest under ESXI, and for the most part they make it work, but I wouldn't count on it as a long term thing. Limetech doesn't actively discourage such usage, and if a problem with being a guest comes up that can be fixed easily without effecting the majority of users, they'll change it, but they won't support or troubleshoot it.

[haliway]

4 hours ago, jonathanm said:

Unraid isn't designed to be dual booted with other OS's, or as a guest under ESXI. Some people are using it as a guest under ESXI, and for the most part they make it work, but I wouldn't count on it as a long term thing. Limetech doesn't actively discourage such usage, and if a problem with being a guest comes up that can be fixed easily without effecting the majority of users, they'll change it, but they won't support or troubleshoot it.

 

My post was not really clear. I have updated it. But partitioning will be for the cache pool SSD disk in raid 1 (multi purpose disk). Otherwise if I can dedicate a third SSD for ESXI and a fourth SSD for Unraid i think it´s ok.

Edited August 8, 2017 by haliway

[Tuftuf]

I can see you are trying to get a better understanding, but you are taking a big leap without understanding how some of it all works. You might really look into what Unraid is, how it installs and generally how it uses disks.

 

You said about installing Unraid booting to dual SSD in raid 1. Unraid would normally boot from a USB stick which either way is required for licensing, I expect the ESXi installs are passing the USB stick through although I've not checked that.

 

Generally, Unraid has control of its own disks, but there are other options. You wouldn't pass through a RAID 1 and then use it as a data disk for that you may as well setup a linux machine and create an NFS share while using KVM for some VMs.

 

Doesn't Nivida gamestream require you to have the GPU to stream the game in the first place. Are you asking IS this possible without a GPU?

 

You can import other games to steam that has already been installed, sometimes it doesn't work so keep a backup of the data. google is your friend here.  Sharing between two installs I've not had working, one stream always thought it needed to reinstall. Might be possible, not sure.

 

I've seen guides for installing OSX... 

 

The GPU's in a system does not have to match. I'm sure I've seen some issue with matching cards in some systems.

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Tuftuf

[haliway]

4 hours ago, Tuftuf said:

I can see you are trying to get a better understanding, but you are taking a big leap without understanding how some of it all works. You might really look into what Unraid is, how it installs and generally how it uses disks.

 

You said about installing Unraid booting to dual SSD in raid 1. Unraid would normally boot from a USB stick which either way is required for licensing, I expect the ESXi installs are passing the USB stick through although I've not checked that.

 

Generally, Unraid has control of its own disks, but there are other options. You wouldn't pass through a RAID 1 and then use it as a data disk for that you may as well setup a linux machine and create an NFS share while using KVM for some VMs.

 

Doesn't Nivida gamestream require you to have the GPU to stream the game in the first place. Are you asking IS this possible without a GPU?

 

You can import other games to steam that has already been installed, sometimes it doesn't work so keep a backup of the data. google is your friend here.  Sharing between two installs I've not had working, one stream always thought it needed to reinstall. Might be possible, not sure.

 

I've seen guides for installing OSX... 

 

The GPU's in a system does not have to match. I'm sure I've seen some issue with matching cards in some systems.

 

 

Sorry I have not really been that clear about the boot. Yes ESXI and Unraid will have their files on their own USB flash storage whose GUID is unique and valid but what about the SSD cache pool ? I don´t really see myself having a SSD in RAID 1 for my physical Windows 10 then 1 SSD for ESXI and 1 SSD for Unraid so 4 SSDs for my entire setup (if that works...). Is there any way to dedicate one partition for Windows, one for ESXI and one for Unraid ? RAID 1 can be either software RAID (might be a better solution to use RAID only for this partition. I need to check how to do that and if that´s actually possible) or hardware RAID (the RAID will be used for any data on the SSD).

 

I didn´t really get your point regarding RAID 1. My RAID 1 will only be required by my physical Windows 10 (if hardware RAID so yes any data / cache on this SSD will be replicated but hopefully software RAID in Windows can be used to replicate a partition seen as a disk and not an entire physical disk). My RAID 1 will only be used to secure my physical Windows 10 installation (not the 2 Windows 10 VM in Unraid) that i´m gonna use when I want a SLI system running and/or not to get banned by Steam etc... for having used a VM while playing games such as Counter-strike Global Offensive.

Regarding Nvidia, the goal will be either to sit down with my friend each with a Thin client or a Keyboard/mouse combo directly connected to the desktop or to relax on the sofa using my 2 handheld devices which are GPD Win and Nvidia Shield Portable. The architecture in that case will remain the same except that one Windows 10 VM will stream to the GPD Win using Steam streaming feature while the other Windows 10 VM will steam to the Nvidia Shield Portable using Gamestream. Both Windows 10 VM will have one GTX 1080TI connected in any case, sitting down in front of a screen or in front of a handheld device.

 

PS : To answer your question about knowledge, I´m trying to figure out what hardware to buy before playing with it because I don´t have any money to waste to try different use cases. I know my use case and I want to find the best way to achieve it then I will know what hardware to buy.

Edited August 8, 2017 by haliway

[Tuftuf]

Once you allow Unraid to see the physical disks you shouldn't use them with another OS. Technically they could be mounted in other systems but not in the ways you wish. Data drives could be mounted as XFS but you cannot write to them or parity will be broken. I would assume cache drives as btrfs could be mounted but again you are looking for windows or esxi compatible solutions so that doesn't work.

 

If you split the drives using a raid controller prior to booting and presented them as different drives to ESXi and Unraid. Then maybe... it would be close to what you are looking for.

 

But I really don't see the purpose to building the system this way.

 

Shouldn't you be thinking of using ESXi for the VM's and GPU passthrough? I've used ESXi and the rest that goes with it but never tried GPU passthrough on it.

 

Depending on your requirements for the ESXi lab, you might want to look into putting that on a separate little mini server, purpose built since I take it you want to keep the GPU's close to the Gaming VM and Physical windows 10 install.

[haliway]

4 minutes ago, Tuftuf said:

Once you allow Unraid to see the physical disks you shouldn't use them with another OS. Technically they could be mounted in other systems but not in the ways you wish. Data drives could be mounted as XFS but you cannot write to them or parity will be broken. I would assume cache drives as btrfs could be mounted but again you are looking for windows or esxi compatible solutions so that doesn't work.

 

If you split the drives using a raid controller prior to booting and presented them as different drives to ESXi and Unraid. Then maybe... it would be close to what you are looking for.

 

But I really don't see the purpose to building the system this way.

 

Shouldn't you be thinking of using ESXi for the VM's and GPU passthrough? I've used ESXi and the rest that goes with it but never tried GPU passthrough on it.

 

Depending on your requirements for the ESXi lab, you might want to look into putting that on a separate little mini server, purpose built since I take it you want to keep the GPU's close to the Gaming VM and Physical windows 10 install.

 

If I understand your comment, it´s quite complicated to prevent Unraid from using some disks. Let´s say I have 4 disks. Why should I have to use all of them ? I think it´s a really strange philosophy to prevent a home user (which is the target of Unraid) from building a multi purpose system. But... let´s say I use another PC with Fibre channels dedicated to ESXI, I will still need a physical Windows 10 VM as required by some multiplayer games. How can I achieve that apart from using 2 gaming PCs ?

[Tuftuf]

I thought you wanted to avoid having four disks in the system.

 

Unraid will see all disks that are presented to it but it will not use any disk unless you select it. There's no risk that it will randomly mount disks. That being said it's then up to you to ensure you don't select the wrong disk in either ESXi or Unraid. EDIT- It will also save that config for each reboot and inform you if there are any other disks not currently handled by Unraid. It's very clear which is it's disks.

 

The main reason I suggested a separate system for ESXi is that Unraid as a real purpose is a NAS + all the other fun stuff. Dual booting with Windows for gaming due to an issue with gaming within a VM. Yes, I can understand that.

 

Tripple boot between Unraid, ESXi, and Windows to me personally seems a waste but that is only because I wouldn't want to remove my home media center which also runs many other tasks for me so often or I wouldn't want to be unable to access some personal files which might still be useful at work such as notes I've taken while running the ESXi system. I would hope you wouldn't be gaming while working!

 

Plex Server, TVHeadend (also doing recordings for the family off air TV), Splunk actually taking some notes on what is happening with the things I'm running at home. Downloads etc etc.. I couldn't even dual boot with this, but due to Steam/VAC would be forced to.

 

Apart from the fact I have a performance issue with VM's due to AMD etc etc. On top of the Unraid and other network services i'm running

1x Gaming/Windows 10 VM 24/7a

I have a second Windows VM which is used for Red Alert.. it's only for a firepro but yes with a better GPU it would be another similar to first VM.

 

I've used shield STB to play from the first machine, but I had other things to get working. My plan is to get it running from the second machine when I replace the GPU for gaming downstairs without touching my first windows desktop/gaming vm.

Yes you can select with VM can see which GPU, sound card etc. This is dependant on the Mobo/CPU setup you have.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Tuftuf

[haliway]

34 minutes ago, Tuftuf said:

I thought you wanted to avoid having four disks in the system.

 

Unraid will see all disks that are presented to it but it will not use any disk unless you select it. There's no risk that it will randomly mount disks. That being said it's then up to you to ensure you don't select the wrong disk in either ESXi or Unraid. EDIT- It will also save that config for each reboot and inform you if there are any other disks not currently handled by Unraid. It's very clear which is it's disks.

 

The main reason I suggested a separate system for ESXi is that Unraid as a real purpose is a NAS + all the other fun stuff. Dual booting with Windows for gaming due to an issue with gaming within a VM. Yes, I can understand that.

 

Tripple boot between Unraid, ESXi, and Windows to me personally seems a waste but that is only because I wouldn't want to remove my home media center which also runs many other tasks for me so often or I wouldn't want to be unable to access some personal files which might still be useful at work such as notes I've taken while running the ESXi system. I would hope you wouldn't be gaming while working!

 

Plex Server, TVHeadend (also doing recordings for the family off air TV), Splunk actually taking some notes on what is happening with the things I'm running at home. Downloads etc etc.. I couldn't even dual boot with this, but due to Steam/VAC would be forced to.

 

Apart from the fact I have a performance issue with VM's due to AMD etc etc. On top of the Unraid and other network services i'm running

1x Gaming/Windows 10 VM 24/7a

I have a second Windows VM which is used for Red Alert.. it's only for a firepro but yes with a better GPU it would be another similar to first VM.

 

I've used shield STB to play from the first machine, but I had other things to get working. My plan is to get it running from the second machine when I replace the GPU for gaming downstairs without touching my first windows desktop/gaming vm.

Yes you can select with VM can see which GPU, sound card etc. This is dependant on the Mobo/CPU setup you have.

 

I quite agree with your comment. The reason why I want to have everything setup on one single desktop PC is that I don´t want to have 2 or 3 computers in my apartment (I will already have 2 small SAN switches + 1 storage subsystem). If I still want to have one single computer at home, can I install ESXI in a VM under Unraid (Gaming will be better than Unraid under ESXI) and use Fibre Channel (PCI pass-through) in my ESXI setup ?
Do you have a solution to keep one physical Windows 10 instance ? Unfortunately VAC games don´t support hypervisors and Steam prevent people from using VMs which is a shame but it seems that there is no real solution to avoid blocks and bans. And I guess SLI is not supported on a VM right ?

Edited August 8, 2017 by haliway

[Tuftuf]

Unraid is using KVM for VM's if you google about running ESXi under KVM. There is an option needed for Unraid to do this but it's on the fourm somewhere, So the VM can run as hypervisor, it is possible. But i'm can't comment how well it will run.

 

If it wasn't for the fiber channel card I would of suggested a tiny little i7 with 2c4t, slient esxi box. Low power usage, you can build something small. I still think a mini server about small switch size is the way to go.

Otherwise you are back to that 4th disk for ESXi, a USB stick for boot and the fiber channel. Not that i like that idea myself.

 

You do need a Mobo that can support 2 GPU's + enough lanes left for the fiber channel card. Assuming you are using all the onboard sata ports for the SSD's.

 

 

 

[haliway]

26 minutes ago, Tuftuf said:

Unraid is using KVM for VM's if you google about running ESXi under KVM. There is an option needed for Unraid to do this but it's on the fourm somewhere, So the VM can run as hypervisor, it is possible. But i'm can't comment how well it will run.

 

If it wasn't for the fiber channel card I would of suggested a tiny little i7 with 2c4t, slient esxi box. Low power usage, you can build something small. I still think a mini server about small switch size is the way to go.

Otherwise you are back to that 4th disk for ESXi, a USB stick for boot and the fiber channel. Not that i like that idea myself.

 

You do need a Mobo that can support 2 GPU's + enough lanes left for the fiber channel card. Assuming you are using all the onboard sata ports for the SSD's.

 

 

 

 

To be honest I would need 2 GTX 1080TI GPUs + 1 GTX 960 for my Windows 7 and my Windows XP VMs (one VM running at a time since 1 GTX 960 GPU only or one of the 1080TI for one of the Windows 10 VMs and Windows 7 VM and the GTX 960 dedicated to Windows XP VM) + 1 lane for my FB adapter which will be 6 lanes maybe (I guess 2 lanes per 1080TI without counting the SLI bridge if I can host my physical Wndows 10 instance in some kind of dual boot on separate disks with the Unraid hypervisor). 6 lanes is a lot and I really have to find the right mobo supporting this hardware.
Regarding SSDs, yes SATA is the way to go for my setup. I don´t need PCIE SSDs... I don´t really need extreme storage performance to play games... My storage box will be designed to deliver maximum storage performance for my ESXI VMs (if ESXI under Unraid is not slow like hell otherwise I will have to move ESXI out of the box).

Edited August 8, 2017 by haliway