Unraid strictly as VM manager

[iLL-O]

Hello everyone, I am new to Unraid and want to disclose right off the bat that I am a total newb.

 

Also I am yet another person who has come across Unraid from Linus' single PC multi-user videos.

 

One thing that I have wanted to do for some time but didn't think was possible till I came across those videos was to run two operating systems simultaneously and independently of each other, specifically Windows and macOS as well as simply two instances of Windows.

 

On my personal PC I would like to run Windows for myself and macOS for both my girlfriend and myself (she is a Mac user and I like to use Final Cut Pro). I have found videos detailing how to add macOS to Unraid.

 

My younger twin brothers have a gaming PC in which they share. One thing I would like to do for them is split their computer into 2 so they can both use it strictly for light usage (i.e. word documents; internet access etc) and potentially set it up in the future as 2 gaming rigs if feasible.

 

Through my searching in the past week I still have a bit of confusion, can I simply use Unraid to create multiple VM's (something like VMware or Virtualbox)? Most guides I have found seem to setup Unraid as a NAS first and then add VM's

 

Additional nonsense:

Is using Unraid for VM's as safe as running and installing an OS conventionally?

Is there a detailed guide to setting up Unraid for multiple VM's?

Is what I am trying to accomplish even worth the effort?

I am aware that a lot more can be done with Unraid and I would like to learn more and take advantage of all it potential!

Edited September 25, 2018 by iLL-O

[JonathanM]

2 hours ago, iLL-O said:

can I simply use Unraid to create multiple VM's (something like VMware or Virtualbox)? Most guides I have found seem to setup Unraid as a NAS first and then add VM's

No. Unraid's front end for KVM assumes you have at least 1 data disk in the array. The VM manager will not start unless the array is started.

 

Hardware for serious VM usage needs to meet specific criteria. Your current machine(s) may or may not have what it takes. You don't magically get more performance, so for 2 simultaneous VM's the host machine will need to have more than twice the resources (CPU and RAM) to achieve similar performance of the same machine running a single OS. The VM management system consumes resources, and the emulation is not perfect, so even on a single VM you can expect only about 80-90 percent of what you get bare metal.

[iLL-O]

Thanks for the reply! So is this to say that if I want the same bare metal experience I would need to go from a 4 core CPU to a 6 or 10 core and double my ram from 8gb to 16gb or more? Or do I need one of those server motherboards with 2 CPU sockets?

 

My current setup is as follows:
I5 7600K
8gb Ram
AsRock mini ITX motherboard

500gb M.2 NVME Drive
1TB HDD

RX 480

 

Would this system fair well and do I have enough resources to accomplish my goal of 1 Windows VM (w/ gaming potential) and 1 non-gaming VM (possibly macOS)? I understand that I will sacrifice performance by parceling my hardware into 3 parts to run the server, and 2 virtual machines.  I am considering possibly stepping up to an I7 8700K, a micro ATX motherboard and 16gb of ram, would this be a smart move or would moving over to server grade components be a better choice (while keeping it at a comparable cost to the aforementioned non-server based upgrade)?

 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by iLL-O

[bastl]

Depending on what games you're playing 16GB isn't that much for the whole server. A couple AAA titles these days struggle with even 8GB of RAM. So let's say 16GB for a gaming VM is the way to go. Now add RAM for the MacOS VM. Final cut you wanna use? Video editing profits from more RAM in general. I don't know whats the minimum or optimum for FC is but i suggest 8-16GB should be ok. Unraid itself doen't use that much RAM as long as you dont add a ton of plugins and addons, what you will do. Trust me. There are tons of usefull stuff you can add to unRaid, Plex Media Server, Nextcloud etc. All are using ressources. Your current CPU is a 4 core 4 thread part. Unraid uses the first core for itself for managing stuff in the backround. Now split that 3 cores in 2 VMs + Plugins maybe. You end up with 2 cores 2 threads for gaming and 1 core 1 thread for MacOS. Good luck rendering videos with FC or playing games with 2 cores. For a single VM that might be ok, but not for 2 VMs at the same time. The more cores and RAM you have the more you can give each VM and the better are the results. Lets say you have a 8 core CPU and 32GB RAM, you can split it in half and end up with 2 systems that are close to your current performance. Another thing i almost forgot, you only can passthrough 1 GPU to one VM. So your gaming VM uses the 480 and you give MacOS Intels integrated GPU (don't know if possible and if where the problems might be in configuring that). If you want a bare metal performance for both VMs the best advice is to use a dedicated GPU for each VM. So you have to add another GPU. Next problem, you have a mini ITX board what i guess only has 1 PCIE slot. You see in which direction we are goin? For 2 VMs with good performance close to bare metal you have to invest a bit of money. Consumer grade gear is kinda ok you don't need server grade stuff. Intels 8 core 16 thread is right around the corner, RAM prices hopefully droping soon and the GPU prices as well, now where NVIDIA released their new GEN and AMD soon. 

[jonp]

Hi there!

 

Most of the advice in this thread is accurate, but I thought I'd chime in with a few more details to help clarify.

16 hours ago, iLL-O said:

My current setup is as follows:
I5 7600K
8gb Ram
AsRock mini ITX motherboard

500gb M.2 NVME Drive
1TB HDD

RX 480

 

Regarding your hardware, it's a little lightweight to support your use case.  Others have already chimed in as such and I have to agree.  You'll need to reserve 25% of your logical CPUs to Unraid itself, then the remaining 3 can be doled out to VMs.  3 logical CPUs is fine for a single Windows VM to run basic applications and maybe some lower end games, but certainly not enough to run multiple VMs.  You'll want an i7 for that at the minimum (so you can get the benefits of hyperthreading).  However, even with HyperThreading, I really think you'll want to jump up to the i7-8700k at the minimum if you're looking for a really solid experience.  That CPU was practically built to support 2 gaming VMs concurrently on Unraid.  It has 6 cores with hyperthreading yielding you a whopping 12 logical CPUs.  I recommend isolating 4 to the host and then assigning 4 per guest VM.

 

You'd also benefit greatly from increasing the amount of RAM on the system.  8GB is plenty for a single Windows workstation, but like others have said, some games demand even more than that.  But for multiple VMs to run, you really want to have at least 8GB of RAM per VM plus at least 4 GB left for the host (at the minimum).  24GB or 32GB of RAM would be ideal for your use case.

 

23 hours ago, iLL-O said:

Through my searching in the past week I still have a bit of confusion, can I simply use Unraid to create multiple VM's (something like VMware or Virtualbox)? Most guides I have found seem to setup Unraid as a NAS first and then add VM's

 

Additional nonsense:

Is using Unraid for VM's as safe as running and installing an OS conventionally?

Is there a detailed guide to setting up Unraid for multiple VM's?

Is what I am trying to accomplish even worth the effort?

I am aware that a lot more can be done with Unraid and I would like to learn more and take advantage of all it potential!

 

1)  In order to create VMs, you need storage to store the virtual disks on anyway.  The same applies to VMWare or Virtualbox.  Assigning disks to the array / cache creates that storage for you.  You don't have to assign any disks to the Parity slot if you don't care about redundancy for your data.

 

2)  Unraid is absolutely safe to use for running VMs and I would argue it's even safer than running Windows as a bare metal instance.  Check out our blog for more info (there was one on security and gaming VMs specifically that was very recent).

 

3)  SpaceInvaderOne's YouTube channel has all the content you'll need to guide you on the process to setting this up.  The Linus videos are pretty good to (look up 2 gamers 1 CPU).

 

4)  Definitely worth the effort if you want to reduce the number of physical PCs you have to support the number of OS instances you want.

 

5)  Unraid can act as a storage appliance, an application server, and a virtualization host, all at the same time.  There are tons of guides and videos on how to set up everything from your basic NAS functionality, to powerful media servers, and of course, gaming VMs.

[iLL-O]

Just wanted to thank you guys for chiming in and enlightening me. I've decided to table my original idea and went ahead and started a test server with some spare parts that I have to get a better feel and understanding for Unraid. At this point I think I may either make a dedicated NAS/Plex/Cloud server or turn my current rig into a gaming vm/nas