GA-EP45C-UD3R + HPA

[phenixdragon]

I am just learning about HPA and just learned my mobo has it. I checked the syslog and I find the following:

 

Sep 29 12:09:13 PhenixNAS kernel: ata3.01: HPA detected: current 3907027055, native 3907029168

 

I am assuming that means the BIOS has written to this drive, is that correct?

 

I also only have 1 drive attached right now. I was planning on adding another drive in tomorrow, but will the BIOS write to possible the other drive? Or once written does it stay written to that drive? As it it won't write to any other drives from now on. I haven't installed a parity drive just yet so this is just 1 data drive in there.

 

Also, if anyone knows if this can be disabled in my BIOS would be great to know. I'm not at home so I can't check if the option is there but I am assuming that it's not there meaning I need a new motherboard without it.

[Joe L.]

I am just learning about HPA and just learned my mobo has it. I checked the syslog and I find the following:

 

Sep 29 12:09:13 PhenixNAS kernel: ata3.01: HPA detected: current 3907027055, native 3907029168

 

I am assuming that means the BIOS has written to this drive, is that correct?

Correct

 

I also only have 1 drive attached right now. I was planning on adding another drive in tomorrow, but will the BIOS write to possible the other drive?

It could, under some conditions

Or once written does it stay written to that drive?

When booting, if the BIOS finds a disk with an HPA and its copy of the bios, it will not write one.  The danger is when (not if, but WHEN) the disk with the HPA fails.  Then the BIOS will write an HPA to a different disk, one that is working.  Once it does that that second disk will show as a different size to unRAID and be thought of by unRAID as a new disk. 

 

Then you have one failed disk, and one replaced disk, and no way to recover.  The array will not start.  If it writes the HPA to a data disk it could easily overwrite some of your data.

  As it it won't write to any other drives from now on.

Not until a cable to the drive with the HPA gets dislodged, or the drive with the HPA fails. Or, even if the feature can be disabled in the BIOS, when the CMOS battery dies and the feature is re-enabled by default

I haven't installed a parity drive just yet so this is just 1 data drive in there.

 

Also, if anyone knows if this can be disabled in my BIOS would be great to know. I'm not at home so I can't check if the option is there but I am assuming that it's not there meaning I need a new motherboard without it.

Disabling it is not enough, as when the CMOS battery dies it will be re-enabled by default.  Now, odds are the boot order will also be reset to default so you'll have other items you'll need to reset, and you'll know when it happens, but by then the damage will already be done.  If it picks the parity drive, it will no longer be the largest drive and the array will not start.  If it picks a data drive, it could possibly clobber your data.  Regardless, it will no longer be the same size so it will be detected as a new disk and the array will not start.  You might then be asked by unRAID to format it since it thinks it is a new drive.

Yes, you need to start looking for a different motherboard. (or a BIOS upgrade, if available, where the feature is disabled by default)

 

Joe L.

[phenixdragon]

Looks like there is a BIOS upgrade for my board, but how do I know if it is disabled by default? I'm guessing just by going into the BIOS and seeing if it is disabled?

[wsume99]

I currently have 2 Gigabyte AMD MBs (one in an unRAID server) and both of them have a BIOS version where HPA is disabled by default.  You have an Intel board so YMMV.  I went through exactly the same ordeal you are and was really concerned by all the things that the experts said on this forum about HPA.  Some of the newer BIOS releases by Gigabyte have HPA disabled by default.  If you can find a newer BIOS version where it is disabled by default then your board is perfectly fine for use in unRAID.  The HPA setting on my boards was under the ADVANCED BIOS FEATURES screen in the BIOS.  The parameter is called BACKUP BIOS IMAGE TO HDD.  It has to be set to DISABLED.  My boards have a default value of DISABLED.  Go ahead and check your current BIOS to see if a setting like that exists.  I checked the manual for your MB and there is not such option shown so odds are that you may be out of luck.  My suggestion, like Joe L’s before me, is that you install the latest BIOS version available for your board which currently is F5f released on 8/25/2009.  If that doesn’t work then you’ll need to find another board.  There are three possible outcomes to your current situation:

1) You cannot find a BIOS version that has any option to adjust HPA settings so you are stuck with HPA on.  In this case I’d say you need to use a different board.

 

2) You find a BIOS version that does give you the ability to disable HPA but it is not disabled by default.  In this case you can disable HPA and use the MB in this condition however it is risky.  If the CMOS battery were to fail all of your BIOS settings would be reset to their defaults, so HPA would be turned back on.  This is what Joe was describing.  Doesn’t happen a lot, but it does happen and if it does you could, NOT WOULD, lose some, NOT ALL, of your data.  I'm guessing you are building an unRAID server because you want all your data in a centralized, SECURE location.  This condition makes it less secure, how much less, well that's debatable.

 

3) You find a BIOS version that does give you the ability to disable HPA and it is disabled by default.  In this case just make sure you have it disabled and you NEVER change it.  This is the only situation under which I personally would use the board.

 

[phenixdragon]

Cool. I will flash it when I get home in a couple of hours and see what will happen. I am hoping it is disabled by default. Not wanting to spend money right now on a new board and possibly CPU/RAM to get what I want.

[phenixdragon]

Flashed it and did a reset to defaults and bam! Came up showing as disabled. Right now I am pulling all my data off of the 1 drive I had installed and I will try clearing the CMOS later just to be on the safe side but I think I am good to go with this board.

[wsume99]

That's awesome.  Did the HPA option show up as BACKUP BIOS IMAGE TO HDD in your BIOS?

[phenixdragon]

Looks to be still there.

 

Sep 30 03:54:56 PhenixNAS kernel: ata3.01: HPA detected: current 3907027055, native 3907029168

 

My understanding is it is there until I clear it out. I have read the instructions on how to but I can just as easy as clear the drive of data and format it again since i have only 1 drive in my configuration. Since I work nights I'm about to head to bed while the data is copying off.

[Joe L.]

Looks to be still there.

 

Sep 30 03:54:56 PhenixNAS kernel: ata3.01: HPA detected: current 3907027055, native 3907029168

 

My understanding is it is there until I clear it out. I have read the instructions on how to but I can just as easy as clear the drive of data and format it again since i have only 1 drive in my configuration. Since I work nights I'm about to head to bed while the data is copying off.

No, it is not going away without special commands.  To clear it now will only clear the reported size, not the actual size.  A simple clear and re-format will not do it.

 

You must use the hdparm -N command, or one of the alternative utilities.

 

Good that the bios now has it disabled by default.

 

Joe L.

[phenixdragon]

I see. Well then it's possible that several of my drives have this on them.

[phenixdragon]

I tried removing the HPA on my drive but it seems to fail. I keep getting a message that there is not such file or directory.

 

I tried using the following command:

 

hdparm -N 3907029168 /dev/ata3

 

also tried

 

hdparm -N /dev/ata3

 

 

Here is my syslog showing that I have HPA and I am assuming this is device /dev/ata/3

 

Oct  1 10:52:02 PhenixNAS kernel: ata3.01: HPA detected: current 3907027055, native 3907029168

Oct  1 10:52:02 PhenixNAS kernel: ata3.01: ATA-8: SAMSUNG HD204UI, 1AQ10001, max UDMA/133

 

 

I guess I am wrong? What am I missing here?

[Joe L.]

I tried removing the HPA on my drive but it seems to fail. I keep getting a message that there is not such file or directory.

 

I tried using the following command:

 

hdparm -N 3907029168 /dev/ata3

 

also tried

 

hdparm -N 3907029168 /dev/ata3

 

 

Here is my syslog showing that I have HPA and I am assuming this is device /dev/ata/3

 

Oct  1 10:52:02 PhenixNAS kernel: ata3.01: HPA detected: current 3907027055, native 3907029168

Oct  1 10:52:02 PhenixNAS kernel: ata3.01: ATA-8: SAMSUNG HD204UI, 1AQ10001, max UDMA/133

 

 

I guess I am wrong? What am I missing here?

You assumed wrong.  There is no device /dev/ata3

 

Type

ls -l /dev/disk/by-id

the three letter device sd?  is at the end of the line for each disk detected.  They are identified by their model/serial number.

 

You would also need to use the correct syntax leading the number with the letter "p" to make a permanent change.

 

As in this example where somebody else omitted it in error:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7042.msg68253#msg68253

 

Joe L.

 

[phenixdragon]

Ah okay. I did actually have the p in there but just didn't know the command to view devices.

 

So now I am trying it and I am coming up with it saying I need to do the --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing flag.

 

Not sure how to do that.

[phenixdragon]

Actually got that figured out now.

[phenixdragon]

OK, I think I did it. I see that I am now getting the same error as this guy:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7042.msg68253#msg68253

 

However, I rebooted and I don't see HPA in the sys log. How can I check if it is using the full capacity?

[phenixdragon]

Hm...I thought it worked but I guess it didn't Still showing HPA in the syslog.

[ohlwiler]

I too could not get it removed with the hdparm command. I used Seatools for DOS.

 

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/support/downloads/seatools

 

As I recall it works on all brand of hard disks. I tried lots of things before I tried Seatools, now I just keep my bootable Seatools CD next to my Seagate firmware updater in my Unraid untilities drawer.

[phenixdragon]

I'll give that a try. I did try Ultimate Boot CD but my USB keyboard doesn't seem to work with it.

 

Tried the hdparm command a few more times and it seems to take if I put a lesser number in there. But even putting in that native number it seems like it did take the HPA out again. Don't know what's up.

[phenixdragon]

Great. My keyboard doesn't work in it either.

[ohlwiler]

I feel for you I spent a lot of time messing around with the ultimate boot cd, but couldn't figure it out. Then I tried Seatools and I had it fixed in two minutes. I keep a PS2 keyboard around for just things like you are experiencing. It is frustrating not to have the tools you need. Good luck.

[phenixdragon]

Looks like I got the keyboard to work. My mistake. Was a setting in the BIOS that I forgot to change back when I did load defaults.

[phenixdragon]

Using the Seagate tools was much easier. All done. 

 

I think the last time I tried the command it did take even though it gave me an error. But Seagate tools was really easy too.

[ohlwiler]

Good to hear, I got a drive with HPA on it that came from my desktop machine (Gigabyte). I forgot to run Seatools on it before I added it to the server, now the OCD in me wants to fix it.