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bmilcs

Ryzen or Server Grade build: low power consumption, etc.

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I'm an idiot and originally posted this under "Hardware". Reading is hard.

 

Anyways, below, I ramble on and on, asking for Ryzen 2700 advice. However, I'm now on the fence, and considering real server-grade stuff. 

 

I'd love some feedback from those with real knowedge on the topic! 

Thanks~!

 

 

 

 

 

After some nice suggestions in my original Reddit post, I think I've settled on a Ryzen 2700 build.

Quote

 

I just upgraded to Pro after 3 years with Unraid. I'm looking to upgrade my current server which consists of:

  • AMD FX6300, 6 Core/6 Thread 3.5GHz (TDP 95W)
  • Asrock 970 Extreme3
  • 24 GB RAM
  • ractal Define R5
  • LSI SAS
  • 2x low end SSD's & several 4tb reds & 8tb whites

 

My Usage:

  • Majority of common media gathering / playing dockers (movies, tv, music, podcasts, etc.)
  • PiHoles, Unifi controller, UNMS, etc.
  • Web host small site, nginx/LE, VPN
  • Backup server for desktops, etc.
  • NVR Server (4-5 cams -- struggling to configure atm)
  • VM's: Debian Xfce, Windows 10 (and more)

My goals:

  • Reduce net power consumption
  • Much less than $1000 ideally
  • Fit in Define R5 (if feasible)
  • DDR3 ECC RAM (I hear this is most affordable for large quantities)
  • More threads & cores
  • Pfsense(quad nic inbound), syslog server, grafana/additional monitoring, lots of virtualization, overall performance across the board
  •  

Anyways, I know this is a wide open question and excuse my ignorance! Home renovation has taken over my life and I could use a point in the right direction.

Thanks!

 

 

Stability = paramount

... all while reducing my power consumption :P. The 2700 seems to fit the bill.

 

Questions

1) Motherboards - Would the X470D4U be a top choice to pair with the Ryzen 2700 & ECC RAM? If not, what would you recommend?

Currently have 5x 3.5" HDD's & 2x SSD's (soon to have much more via SAS controller)

2) ECC: What is the cheapest (yet reliable) ECC RAM to pair with this setup (4x 16gb)?

 

3) Compatibility: Will my existing hardware below play nicely with a Ryzen 2700 build?

 

Thank you so much for your time. I greatly appreciate all your feedback.

 

CURRENT SYSTEM:

 

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5 GHz 6-Core Processor 
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($24.99 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: ASRock 970 Extreme3 ATX AM3+ Motherboard 
24gb ram
Storage: Kingston SSDNow UV300 120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($59.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($107.99 @ Adorama) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($99.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($99.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($99.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 8 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($214.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 8 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($214.99 @ Amazon) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($129.99 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($149.99 @ Amazon) 
Wired Network Adapter: Intel EXPI9404PTLBLK PCIe x4 1000 Mbit/s Network Adapter 
Custom: SAS9211-8I 8PORT Int 6GB Sata+sas Pcie 2.0  ($62.99 @ Amazon) 
 

Edited by bmilcs

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Everything should work. Recommend 3 slot pci-e motherboard. Install your nic in the 3rd slot at pci-e 2.0. Don't forget you need to get ddr4 memory.

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My preference would be for an ATX format Supermicro LGA2011 V3 board (some have IPMI unlocked with licence fee) with E5-2660 V3, E5-2680V3 and DDR4 RIMMS with ECC.

 

Similar overall CPU , mature platform, quad channel memory, 10 native SATA and 40 lanes of PCIE for expansion.

 

I like Ryzen, but on a matx board there isn't a lot of expansion.

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1 hour ago, Decto said:

My preference would be for an ATX format Supermicro LGA2011 V3 board (some have IPMI unlocked with licence fee) with E5-2660 V3, E5-2680V3 and DDR4 RIMMS with ECC.

 

Similar overall CPU , mature platform, quad channel memory, 10 native SATA and 40 lanes of PCIE for expansion.

 

I like Ryzen, but on a matx board there isn't a lot of expansion.

What kinda power consumption does this setup have?

 

I really am looking to reduce my overall power useage.

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1 hour ago, Decto said:

My preference would be for an ATX format Supermicro LGA2011 V3 board (some have IPMI unlocked with licence fee) with E5-2660 V3, E5-2680V3 and DDR4 RIMMS with ECC.

 

Similar overall CPU , mature platform, quad channel memory, 10 native SATA and 40 lanes of PCIE for expansion.

 

I like Ryzen, but on a matx board there isn't a lot of expansion.

The CPU alone is TDP120 W, 25 more than my current :(

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1 hour ago, bmilcs said:

The CPU alone is TDP120 W, 25 more than my current :(

The CPU rating is maximum allowed consumption, and has no correlation to actual power draw under normal use. I'm not saying whether or not the rig as a whole will draw more or less than your present setup, but that rating has nothing to do with normal draw.

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I haven't yet got my new server up and running fully, however I tested my E5-2660 V3 in a Gigabyte X99-SLI with 64GB RDIMM (4x16GM) , Nvidia GT710, no drives and after unraid had booted it was @ 39W using a ~ 15 year old Antec Green power 380W PSU. I didn't connect to the internet as I didn't want to start the on that stick yet so I couldn't make any optimisations. That may come down a little with a more modern and efficient PSU, CPU govener set for efficiency  in Unraid and even with a more server optimised board.  Note 16GB RIMM is ~ 4W.

 

The best Idle consumption I've seen to date was ~28W for a Sandybridge 2500T (45W), 8GB DDR3 using IGPU so the difference isn't huge considering the extra memory and  cores.

 

My currrent E3-1225V3 with drives spun down, 16GB, 2 x 8 way SAS card is 46W and 54W with an external 4 bay SAS enclosure powered.

 

There are some reports of power managment issues with Ryzen and unraid, if you search some threads you'll see the recommendation is to disable some of the power management for Ryzen so I don't know how low a Ryzen would idle, perhaps you can request some power numbers.

 

Costs 

 

CPU $130 / $180 (server pull)

Motherboard $300 (new)

Memory RIMM 16GB $200  (~$50 per 16GB 2133 RIMM) (server pull / new)

 

The 10 core E5-2660 V3 has about x2.5 performance of your current FX and is 105W TDP. Both the 10 and 12 core have the same clocks for 1-4 cores and the the same all core so unless you really need 12 cores, the 10 core part will give equivalent performance. You do give up some single thread speed vs Ryzen so depends on if you run anything critical thats threadbound.

 

Anyhow, it's an alternate option with potential for higher core V3 / V4 parts later when they get cheaper and worth considering before you spend that kind of cash.

 

Be aware there are two heatsink mountings, Square ILM and Narrrow ILM. Very few coolers fit the Narrow ILM, however Noctura and others do offer some options. 

 

 

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On 1/31/2020 at 1:24 PM, Decto said:

I haven't yet got my new server up and running fully, however I tested my E5-2660 V3 in a Gigabyte X99-SLI with 64GB RDIMM (4x16GM) , Nvidia GT710, no drives and after unraid had booted it was @ 39W using a ~ 15 year old Antec Green power 380W PSU. I didn't connect to the internet as I didn't want to start the on that stick yet so I couldn't make any optimisations. That may come down a little with a more modern and efficient PSU, CPU govener set for efficiency  in Unraid and even with a more server optimised board.  Note 16GB RIMM is ~ 4W.

 

The best Idle consumption I've seen to date was ~28W for a Sandybridge 2500T (45W), 8GB DDR3 using IGPU so the difference isn't huge considering the extra memory and  cores.

 

My currrent E3-1225V3 with drives spun down, 16GB, 2 x 8 way SAS card is 46W and 54W with an external 4 bay SAS enclosure powered.

 

There are some reports of power managment issues with Ryzen and unraid, if you search some threads you'll see the recommendation is to disable some of the power management for Ryzen so I don't know how low a Ryzen would idle, perhaps you can request some power numbers.

 

Costs 

 

CPU $130 / $180 (server pull)

Motherboard $300 (new)

Memory RIMM 16GB $200  (~$50 per 16GB 2133 RIMM) (server pull / new)

 

The 10 core E5-2660 V3 has about x2.5 performance of your current FX and is 105W TDP. Both the 10 and 12 core have the same clocks for 1-4 cores and the the same all core so unless you really need 12 cores, the 10 core part will give equivalent performance. You do give up some single thread speed vs Ryzen so depends on if you run anything critical thats threadbound.

 

Anyhow, it's an alternate option with potential for higher core V3 / V4 parts later when they get cheaper and worth considering before you spend that kind of cash.

 

Be aware there are two heatsink mountings, Square ILM and Narrrow ILM. Very few coolers fit the Narrow ILM, however Noctura and others do offer some options. 

 

 

Thank you for the feedback my man.

 

I just found this wonderful spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LqQvwXoqhcft6dpMGgIF21XhqijBACOe9nU8cVK6Llk/edit#gid=0

 

Looking through the options, the E5-2667 v2 looks like a monster. Yes, max TDP is 130, but 3.3ghz/4ghz turbo is sexy. 13.2k passmark single cpu. 8c/16t.

 

From what I've gathered, you want roughly 2k per dedicated Plex transcrode, around 4k for unraid itself? I'm not sure if these values are accurate.

 

Would the E5-2660 / 2267 / 2670 / 2680 be great choices for me? They all seem fantastic.

 

I haven't done any gaming at VM's via Unraid due to lack of a graphics card, but I'd like to be able to provide a VM to my youngest son to play Fortnite casually.

 

I imagine whatever I get is better than nothing, and much better than my current rig.

 

 

 

 

On 1/31/2020 at 10:08 AM, jonathanm said:

The CPU rating is maximum allowed consumption, and has no correlation to actual power draw under normal use. I'm not saying whether or not the rig as a whole will draw more or less than your present setup, but that rating has nothing to do with normal draw.

Apologies for my stupdity! And thank you. That makes me feel much better.

 

Is there another way to gauge how much power consumption I'll see VS what I'm using now?

Edited by bmilcs

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1 hour ago, bmilcs said:

 

 

Would the E5-2660 / 2267 / 2670 / 2680 be great choices for me? They all seem fantastic.

 

I haven't done any gaming at VM's via Unraid due to lack of a graphics card, but I'd like to be able to provide a VM to my youngest son to play Fortnite casually.

 

 

 

I'm running dual E5-2665 CPUs in my unRaid box (need to update my signature) and they work very well for my requirements (Dockers, VMs, etc) , however I'm not sure they'll make for a great gaming experience, unless the game is setup to take advantage of many cores slower cores.  I just don't think the single thread performance and the low clock speeds will make a lot of games work too well. If you want to go this route and use older Xeons, you would be better served going lower core count higher clock speed as you will not be able to overclock these CPUs in a dual setup. 

 

I did test out passing through a AMD 280x to a Windows 10 VM and while it worked, I was not too pleased with the performance. That being said the 280x is pretty old, and I never tested it with my 1070. I've not played Fortnite, so I can't speak to how optimized that game is as I'm more of an RPG gamer. But Skyrim was not too happy on that setup but was fine on an i5 and the same video card. Maybe if I lowered my expectations I could have gotten by.

 

I'm considering a Ryzen build to replace this box at some point in the future so I can give up my game steaming box, but that is not in my budget right now. I guess if I could convince the manager at home that the power savings would be worth the cost, I might get the approval :)

 

If you had the hardware on hand I'd say test it out and see, I'm just not sure I'd spend the money on that setup when you can get a pretty good Ryzen build for the same money that you'd have to spend to build this out. 

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17 hours ago, Chess said:

 

I'm running dual E5-2665 CPUs in my unRaid box (need to update my signature) and they work very well for my requirements (Dockers, VMs, etc) , however I'm not sure they'll make for a great gaming experience, unless the game is setup to take advantage of many cores slower cores.  I just don't think the single thread performance and the low clock speeds will make a lot of games work too well. If you want to go this route and use older Xeons, you would be better served going lower core count higher clock speed as you will not be able to overclock these CPUs in a dual setup. 

 

I did test out passing through a AMD 280x to a Windows 10 VM and while it worked, I was not too pleased with the performance. That being said the 280x is pretty old, and I never tested it with my 1070. I've not played Fortnite, so I can't speak to how optimized that game is as I'm more of an RPG gamer. But Skyrim was not too happy on that setup but was fine on an i5 and the same video card. Maybe if I lowered my expectations I could have gotten by.

 

I'm considering a Ryzen build to replace this box at some point in the future so I can give up my game steaming box, but that is not in my budget right now. I guess if I could convince the manager at home that the power savings would be worth the cost, I might get the approval :)

 

If you had the hardware on hand I'd say test it out and see, I'm just not sure I'd spend the money on that setup when you can get a pretty good Ryzen build for the same money that you'd have to spend to build this out. 

I'd assumed that this was a dedicated server and not a server / workstation/ game station. 

 

Running a dedicated game server is not so clock speed dependant as it's not busy keeping the rendering pipe full while running the game loop. Exceptions for super high tick FPS servers but in most cases cloud game servers run on standard multicore server grade hardware.

 

I have a couple of game servers on my 4c4t Xeon and the load is pretty minimal.

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2 hours ago, Decto said:

I'd assumed that this was a dedicated server and not a server / workstation/ game station. 

 

Running a dedicated game server is not so clock speed dependant as it's not busy keeping the rendering pipe full while running the game loop. Exceptions for super high tick FPS servers but in most cases cloud game servers run on standard multicore server grade hardware.

 

I have a couple of game servers on my 4c4t Xeon and the load is pretty minimal.

 

@Decto I believe he wanted to pass through a graphics card to give his son a gaming VM for Fortnite, unless I misunderstood. But yes you are correct, most game servers are not that clock speed dependent and can live on modest hardware. 

Edited by Chess
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