Gaming/VR Ryzen Computer Build + NAS + plans for future upgrades

[neilster]

Hey everyone!

i have previously used Unraid to build a NAS at home. i am quite happy with The expand ability and customisation of Unraid.

i have been thinking of building a gaming rig for a Long time that can support 1080p 120hz and for VR Gaming. Also I don’t want it to be as large as my previous builds so I was looking at a mATX build. I do also want to take into consideration that eventually I will convert this set up into a smaller NAS

What I have planned so far is, it is a mix of what I have and I am planning to buy

CPU: Ryzen 5 2600 or 7 2700

CPU Cooler: Arctic Freezer 33 (already have)

Motherboard: ASRock X570M Pro 4

Ram: CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 2666MHz

PSU: CORSAIR RMx Series RM850x (2018)

Case: Fractal Design Node 804 (can fit up to 10 - 3.5inch drives)

Raid drive: 

GPU: Gigabyte RTX 2070 Super gaming

 

Drives:

Parity: 8TB IronWolf Seagate (Already Have)

Cache: 2x Samsung 860 EVO SATA III 2.5 inch 500GB (Already Have)

Data: 2x 8TB IronWolf Seagate (Already Have)

Unassigned / VM-drive:  Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 SSD - 500GB

 

I have never done a Ryzen build and I have not tried VMs yet

• I have been trying to read up on passthroughs and issues with Ryzen CPU with unpaid
• I see on the forums that there are many who have gotten it to work and what I have learnt so far is

1. Don’t get Ryzen 3000 series (too new and a lot of troubleshooting required)
2. Difficulty doing the VM pass through
3. Need to get an additional GPU as there is no onboard GPU
4. I am not sure if this mother board can boot without GPU (am planning to run unraid without the GPU)

 

I have a few thoughts and questions on what I have planned so far

- I chose x570 chipset MoBo as I want to have the option to upgrade my CPU in the future

- I am thinking between 2600 and 2700 - I understand that 2600 is more then sufficient for gaming but I am not sure how to factor in that some cores are used for the unraid software

- 16GB RAM I believe is enough for a regular gaming computer but again I am not sure how running a VM would change this. Was considering either 16 or 32

- I keep thinking between intel vs amd, should i just go to intel? if it seems better, though i have to relook at the price

 

Let me know if there are any other things I should think about or should consider in my build!

 

Just trying to figure out if I missed anything out, should I consider something else or if I should anticipate any problems for the future!

 

Thanks in advance for the advice and thoughts!

Edited March 12, 2020 by neilster

[neilster]

just posting in hope that someone would help me out thanks!

[testdasi]

5 hours ago, neilster said:

just posting in hope that someone would help me out thanks!

Hey. Didn't see your post last week.

 

For a gaming build, I would encourage you to go Intel as long as it's still affordable for you and ONLY with regards to single-die CPU with integrated iGPU.

Reasons:

• Ryzen design with CCX/CCD carries innate latency penalty that requires tweaks to minimise. And even with all the tweaks it's still higher than Intel.
  What it means in practice is your fps variation on an AMD build will be higher than Intel (assuming obviously no bottleneck elsewhere). Whether this matters or not is rather subjective e.g. I can't tell the diff at all but I have a friend who can (and I have done a blind test with the guy and I'm 99.99% sure he can!).
   
• The iGPU helps quite a bit with passing through a primary dedicated GPU (e.g. to dump vbios, to boot Unraid with etc.) as well as being useful for hardware transcoding (e.g. Plex). Whether this matters depend on the user's skill level with regards to Unraid familiarity, troubleshooting, command line etc.

In case you wonder, I personally am running an AMD TR4 build as my main server so rest assure that my recommendation for Intel isn't fanboy's speech.

 

 

Regardless if you pick Intel or AMD, I strongly recommend you get a Gigabyte motherboard.

Gigabyte BIOS allows you to freely pick any PCIe x16 physical slot (as well as the iGPU in case of Intel socket) as "Initial Display Output" i.e. what Unraid boot with. This is very useful for new Unraid users e.g. flexibility in GPU placement, ability to dump vbios without needing to physically switch GPU, prevent Unraid from booting with the primary GPU etc.

If you go Intel, I know that some other motherboards do allow you to pick whether to boot with the iGPU or a dedicated GPU but double check in the manuals. Gigabyte is the only brand that has been consistent in offering such flexibility across the boards.

 

 

Now with your other queries:

• 16GB RAM is sufficient but if you can afford it, get 32GB. As you start to find more uses for your server, you may realise 16GB suddenly isn't enough. Whichever your choice make sure (a) you get 2 sticks of RAM (or 4) and (b) you don't overclock RAM. Running single-stick is like riding a 1-wheel bike. Overclocking RAM, even within advertised spec, has been known to cause instability and even data corruption.
• You are a bit confused about GPU pass-through.
  • You can pass through the GPU that Unraid boots with (which means Unraid would be headless AFTER the GPU has been passed through to a VM). It's just that once a GPU has been initiated at boot, it is more difficult (and in some cases impossible) to pass it through successfully to a VM. That's why it makes life easier to have a dedicated GPU for Unraid to boot with (or in case of Intel have an iGPU) as well as having a motherboard that provides flexibility in picking boot GPU (e.g. my point above about Gigabyte).
  • The above is very different from "booting without GPU" i.e. full headless boot. Some motherboards allow this, some don't and it's impossible to tell without actually owning one and test it out.
• Watch SpaceInvader One tutorial on Youtube about VM and PCIe passthrough - especially the one about stubbing PCIe devices. You will definitely need it.
  • The 2070 has 4 devices (GPU, HDMI Audio and 2x USB devices) and all 4 must be passed through to a VM together. The 2 USB devices don't show up on the VM template unless you stub them, after which they will show up under Other PCI Devices section.
  • AMD Ryzen chipset has onboard USB controllers that can be passed through to a VM (so you get full hot-plug capability and less compatibility issues). Again, you need to stub them for them to show up under Other PCI Devices section.
  • The 970 Evo NVMe should be passed through to a VM as a PCIe device for best performance. Same blablabla about stubbing as above.
• Don't be too ambitious trying passing through devices. Start with the GPU (and NVMe if you plan to use as boot drive) first. Make sure they work and then work on the AMD chipset onboard USB controller.
• This came up a few times recently so worth reiterating: any device (whether GPU, USB controller, NVMe etc.) that has been passed through to a VM is exclusively used by that VM. No simultaneous sharing (i.e. 1 VM has to be shutdown before another VM can use it). No returning it back to Unraid.
• If you can afford the 2700, get it instead of the 2600. A 2600 is a crippled 2700.
• Unless you plan to store important data on the cache pool (that would need 2x drives running in RAID-1 for failure protection), just use a single-drive cache and mount the other 860 Evo as unassigned device. You will prolong the lifespan of both 860 Evo by splitting read-heavy and write-heavy data (e.g. use cache for write-heavy stuff and UD for read-heavy stuff).

That's all I can think of.

 

 

And as always, don't treat any of the above recommendation as a guarantee about PCIe pass-through due to the multitude of variables involved.

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by testdasi

[neilster]

Hey thanks for the tips! didnt have time to properly process the information you posted last week! so much happening around the world.

 

I am keen on still doing this build but i think i will be postponing it to a later time as i think financial it is difficult during this time!

 

i definitely will take into consideration what you mentioned.

 

I am still keen on AMD as the cost ratio is better.

i do hope to be able to work out the bugs and get a vm with passthrough working well. i hope that it just takes time and is not impossible

 

the mother board I am still keen on this motherboard but i am waiting to hear what people think about it as they use it

 

Thanks again for the tips! looking forward to really trying this build again in the future

[vndk36]

On 3/19/2020 at 2:58 PM, testdasi said:

Hey. Didn't see your post last week.

 

For a gaming build, I would encourage you to go Intel as long as it's still affordable for you and ONLY with regards to single-die CPU with integrated iGPU.

....

Good luck.

Thank you so much for the greate respons and all the details put into it. This post helped me alot while I was sorting components for a future build.  

Even created an account just to say thank you

Edited April 16, 2020 by vndk36
too long post

[gperpetuo]

On 3/19/2020 at 1:58 PM, testdasi said:

Regardless if you pick Intel or AMD, I strongly recommend you get a Gigabyte motherboard.

Gigabyte BIOS allows you to freely pick any PCIe x16 physical slot (as well as the iGPU in case of Intel socket) as "Initial Display Output" i.e. what Unraid boot with. This is very useful for new Unraid users e.g. flexibility in GPU placement, ability to dump vbios without needing to physically switch GPU, prevent Unraid from booting with the primary GPU etc.

If you go Intel, I know that some other motherboards do allow you to pick whether to boot with the iGPU or a dedicated GPU but double check in the manuals. Gigabyte is the only brand that has been consistent in offering such flexibility across the boards.

Do Gigabyte mobos have ECC support?
I'm undecided in a build myself between Asrock B450m and Gigabyte equivalent one. Gigabyte has 6x Sata connectors which can be usefull in a mAtx build that will have to run 2x GPU's leaving only one PCIe slot available for other things... (and 2x M2 although you can not have 8 disks connected at same time!?)

Maybe better "give up" on ECC and go with Gigabyte?

[testdasi]

2 hours ago, gperpetuo said:

Do Gigabyte mobos have ECC support?
I'm undecided in a build myself between Asrock B450m and Gigabyte equivalent one. Gigabyte has 6x Sata connectors which can be usefull in a mAtx build that will have to run 2x GPU's leaving only one PCIe slot available for other things... (and 2x M2 although you can not have 8 disks connected at same time!?)

Maybe better "give up" on ECC and go with Gigabyte?

Maybe I flip the question back: why are you insisting on ECC?

ECC is never a system requirement for Unraid.

 

Is it good to have? It is!

However, it only helps in a very specific scenario (single-bit corruption) which is extremely rare in consumer uses and even when happened is not as costly as compared to the enterprise context. So all this halo effect I'm seeing lately with people insisting on ECC or burst is rather peculiar.

I would say most of the extra stability that people seem to attribute to ECC RAM in consumer uses may have nothing to do with ECC at all but rather because ECC RAM can't be overclocked. Most consumers read "DDR4 3600MHz" in non-ECC RAM spec sheet and immediately go to BIOS and enable XMP and what not. Manufacturer certified overclock is still an overclock. And an overclock is ALWAYS less stable than stock speed.

 

I can always strongly recommend Gigabyte because of the number of times I have seen "don't boot Unraid with it" has fixed pass through issues.

You have to make the decision whether that POTENTIAL benefit is worth "giving up" on ECC RAM.

 

[gperpetuo]

My main archives are my pictures.

I know that unraid doesn’t require ecc.

Since I do shoot Raw+JPEG, keep edition files and final JPEG edited pictures and also do Offsite Backups... maybe ECC really isn’t something so critical to me.

Gigabyte then.

Thanks for all the help you give people on the forums! 🙂

[Armed Ferret]

11 hours ago, gperpetuo said:

My main archives are my pictures.

I know that unraid doesn’t require ecc.

Since I do shoot Raw+JPEG, keep edition files and final JPEG edited pictures and also do Offsite Backups... maybe ECC really isn’t something so critical to me.

Gigabyte then.

Thanks for all the help you give people on the forums! 🙂

Unless your mobo is a server mobo, then I wouldnt spend the extra cash on ECC memory.   Linustechtips tech channel has a good video on ECC memory.  If you dont want to listen to what ECC memory does then just fast forward to the 2:55 min mark and it explains if you should use it and why.

 

 

[gperpetuo]

On 4/21/2020 at 6:51 AM, Armed Ferret said:

Unless your mobo is a server mobo, then I wouldnt spend the extra cash on ECC memory.   Linustechtips tech channel has a good video on ECC memory.  If you dont want to listen to what ECC memory does then just fast forward to the 2:55 min mark and it explains if you should use it and why.

I have already read much more than the information in that video. But thanks.

The issue I had was more related with the importance of it in my case specifically. From what I am understanding (again, in my case), it is not much of an issue since my critical files are "static" and stored physically and not "floating" in the memory chips during weeks. So, critically for me is to have redundancy on local hard drives and offsite backup, as I already have.

Once again, thank you all for the help.