grumpybutfun

Docker (unRAID bzimage) + Image / Distro (bzroot) = Appliance Platform Let me help you with that. Using Docker Hub (Appliances) as an example: Slackware = 212 Downloads This includes all whopping 5 of the Slackware images and just 1 App. 4 of those images are done by the same guy too. If you want a good laugh go look at his docker images because he has a picture of himself. Aside from looking like 70s porn actor (typical Slacker guy)... I'm sure that dork is quite the ladies man. Debian = 226,298 Downloads Using just 2 of base Debian Images and none of the THOUSANDS of Debian based Apps. CentOS = 101,220 Downloads Using just 2 of the base images and none of the THOUSANDS of CentOS based Apps. Ubuntu = 657,913 Downloads Using just 2 of the base images and none of the THOUSANDS of Ubuntu based Apps. Of the 14,000+ images that all those Developers, DevOPS, Linux Experts, Redis, MySQL, Wordpress, Node.js, etc. created only 1 choose Slackware for their Appliance Platform. In 4+ months it has a whopping 14 downloads and it's not even running the latest stable version of Apache. THAT is what we in the business call the definition of DEAD if you are Slackware. Much like Reiserfs in the File System world and why Reiserfs isn't included in Red Hat / CentOS for years. If we are to believe that Slackware is a superior Appliance Platform... Shouldn't we at least eat our own dogfood and switch our Docker base image to it? You can suck the unRAID bzroot (Slackware) image right into Docker without having to even download a image. After you trim the bzroot down by removing the linux kernel and a few other things you can get it down to 275mb or so. Upside = We save several MBs per container. Downside = You will have one hell of a dockerfile and updating it will be a MFer.

As you see, Docker works the way it is now. However, I suspect that in time with certain apps on certain hardware or certain apps crashing... it can / will be a problem that users can experience. If I was Lime Technologies, I would take matters into my own hands and make sure I allocate a bare minimum for CPU, Disk I/O, Memory, etc. for the Server and if they so desire... Allow users to create groups of their own. Similar to some us who went nuts with NFS tweaking and even unRAID tunables settings. I was making you and needo aware that you should take a look at it (along with Lime Technologies). Since you and needo are running the show on Docker... I didn't want this potential issue that could crop up to reflect on you or your work. I'm really biting my lip hard and trying not to be Grumpy... This is really something that Lime Technology should know about or if they already do but haven't shared it... Chime in and let us know what they think / want to do, if anything.

A 10 Minute crash course in cgroups: PaaS Under the Hood, Episode 2: cgroups and... Arch Wiki - cgroups

You have to also interface and set up some customized cgroups in Slackware. You will probably want to make those persistent too. You can do this all on your own but it would be best if Lime Technologies was also in the loop. That way both of you can best decide how to proceed (in respect to them handling the Slackware side of things and you Docker side). For people running something like Plex, newznab and when SABnzb is unraring a huge file... They are going to want / need more horsepower than your typical docker app (but not take all the horsepower). But... You do not want a normal Docker App that crashes / hangs to chew up 100% of the CPU, memory, Disk I/O either. Find some power users who will beta test various settings you come up with and see what works best.

I am not trying to hurt LT nor it's users, quite the contrary. I am HUGE fan of unRAID and want it to be the best NAS product out there. My passion for it shows with all the work I have done, my documentation and my posts. I GREATLY appreciate your work and all that do and I hope you continue. What you have done part time in only a few weeks is nothing short of amazing along with very professional and polished looking. unRAID believes I should go create / play in my own sandbox, I happen to agree with them. I totally disagree. Docker is HUGE and most unRAID users are going to use it over anything I have done with Xen / KVM. Virtualization certainly has it's place but for most unRAID users, Docker is way to go. Slackware and root ram file system is what unRAID is going to stick with for the foreseeable future and thankfully with unRAID choosing to install / use Docker... It is a great solution and solves some of the issues in the current unRAID environment. Linux Dorks like me have come and gone and unRAID didn't miss a beat. However, it's the WebGUI guys (you included) that are most valuable / needed. It's one thing that I can make unRAID do X, Y and Z but without people like you... The average unRAID user doesn't have the experience / knowledge / comfort level to drop down to a Linux command line to be able to use those things I share / create effectively / easily. My parting advice to you (and needo)... It's VERY IMPORTANT that both of you go learn about Linux control groups and work with unRAID to implement that into what you both are doing. They provide a lot of very useful metrics, but they also help to ensure that each container gets its fair share of memory, CPU, disk I/O; and, more importantly, that a single container cannot bring the system down by exhausting one of those resources. Also, since Docker 1.0 just came out and a lot more people are now using it there will be A LOT of releases over several months. They have already released Docker 1.1.0 and 1.1.1 is about to be released. There are many bug fixes and new features that you and needo will want to take advantage of as this moves forward. In your case, they are constantly working on the Docker APIs and there will be many updates / changes / additions in the next few months. Assuming unRAID rolls out Betas and updates Docker to the latest stable release... With those, it will allow you to share / show even more and give us the ability to make Docker easier to support / manage in your WebGUI. You will see they added some things for stop / stop, a pause and sockets parameter. Thanks again for all that you and needo have done. I personally have used both of what you two have developed and learned a great deal about Docker in the process.

Yeah... I am not going to be able to do it. I use to contribute here (KVM, Xen, XenServer, running unRAID in KVM on openSUSE, PXE Server, etc.) but my contributions / input are no longer wanted here. I think I have a lot of to offer but unRAID sees it another way. I finally got around to attacking Docker (Grumpy Style) and I did it A LOT of things differently than how we are doing it here now. I'm sure unRAID thinks I have this wrong too. 1. Using the wrong image. 2. Using the wrong init script. 3. Looking at this from a container level only and not the bigger picture. 4. Not creating a platform / image / method for users to easily add / implement / manage change their Apps in Docker. When addressing the 4 areas above 1. I created a Master Development Image that users would use to create Apps. 2. Developers use the Developer Image (a Linux Novice following any App install guide on the web could do this)... They would put the config files / scripts / packages (if any) into separate folders for the Master Container Image (Not the Developer Image this is a separate Container Image and it's a lot smaller than the one we use now). 3. Selected a Rolling Release Distro that also has a port system (TONS of apps that even Ubuntu doesn't have without jumping through hoops) along with whatever is in your typical package manager. 3. Running a simple command will then use (data, config, etc.) and suck in everything that is needed when making a real small container for the apps plus all the monitoring stuff you will see at the bottom. 4. Integrates with github and all updates, versioning, script modifications, etc. all are updated with a simple command. 5. Want to create a Wordpress Container that works in unRAID with our "standard" unRAID Docker format... Use the dockerfile, one ini file (which we all can see / create / modify / update) and run the docker build command and bam! 6. We are not monitoring Apps... We are only monitoring Containers. Monitor Application in all your containers in one WebGUI tab: Then in another WebGUI tab you can see all your containers, monitor / see the status and even be alerted (with sound) that an App within each Container is not working. Below instead of Server it would be Sickbeard/Edge Couchpotato/Stable, etc. and for the Processes it would actually say what each one is... Sickbeard, SSH, Deluge, etc. Running 15 Apps in 15 Containers works sure but you can run many Apps in one / several containers if you want. With my system, it's a matter of dropping in an INI file (for each app) and it would build containers that you customize with as many apps as you want. Plus unRAID hasn't figured out or told you about control groups and how to customize memory, CPU, disk I/O throughput, Prioritization, etc. for your container(s). Yes, my ini file (which you can edit yourself) handles all of that. I bet it's the first time that 95% of you are hearing about this. I suspect you will want your Plex to be in it's own control group and your Apps to use different control groups. Anyway... I was told to leave since unRAID and I disagree when it comes to providing an end to end solution for NAS / HTPC / Media / Applications Server. They basically do "apt-get install docker" and leave the rest to us. I want an end to end solution (including Best of Breed Practices, maintaining Images, packages, INI files, containers, VMs, etc.). I will release a docker solution like enterprises do it (sexed up of course and all done through a WebGui) and many other things with "GrumpyRAID" coming out soon.

Is that so? How else could I show it without showing a bunch of open windows to show all the various features / functions? Are you are saying that Red Hat (CentOS) has no central Management Tools to manage the OS? If you believe that, you need to put down Slackware, download CentOS 7 and install it. Then get back to me. There are also 20+ Linux OS WebGUI control panels available like Webmin, C-panel, OpenPanel, Kloxo, Vesta, WenYAST, C-Panel (only non-free one), etc. Webmin / Virtualmin has over 100+ Server / Management modules for 100+ apps / functions (90+ unRAID doesn't have). How is clicking on unRAID Shares better than clicking on Webmin Shares? Why do ISPs / Hosting Providers use all the various open source Control Panels and not emhttp? Last time I checked, I haven't had to drop to command line to manage one of my remote servers. Pretty much everyone has to drop to command line to do some very basic things in unRAID. Also, I don't have to login / manage my server after I set it up. Once I add my disks, set my shares, install my apps... I'm done. If I load more Apps... WAY easier than Docker or VM. If I want new Shares... Just as easy as unRAID. If I want Virtualization... Blows what we have in unRAID away so far. If I want to run other fault tolerance, monitoring apps, firewall, virus protection, etc... NO PROBLEM and can been done in 10 seconds or less with a package manager. Unlike unRAID, I get emails / status updates via push notifications / email if / when there is a problem (power, hard drives, package management system, ups, network, heat, fans, etc.). I also have several fault tolerances on my system. One of them being the system drives. Instead of a POS usb flash drive (single point of failure and the license is attached too it)... I have mirrored system drives. Should one of my SSDs go to crap, my other one takes over. In the background it adds one of my warm SSD spares automatically, replicates the data again all on it's own. I do not have to do a thing but I get a notification / email letting me a drive failed, it's drop it from my mirror, added the warm spare, replicated it, etc. ALL OF THAT is core in Linux for 10+ years but for whatever reason, Tom doesn't think we want / need that type of stuff (even though we have asked for YEARS for it). Another Thing... Do any of us goto http://localhost/super-awesome-all-in-one-media-center-control-panel on unRAID to manage all of the following: Any control Sickbeard, CouchPotato, sabnzdb, NZBmegasearch, Plex, XBMC, SickRage, Deluge, etc? NOPE! Why is that? Everyone of those apps are Best in Breed Applications for what it is they do. I doubt someone is going to come along and combine all those functions / features / programs into an all in one application. Definitely not in the open source world (due to how the open source world works). My point, we do not mind / care that we have to manage various apps / features / functions in various WebGUIs (we already do it and unRAID isn't going to solve that problem anytime soon either). But Virtualization, PCI, Xen, KVM, PCI-Stub, PCI-Device IDs, Docker / Dockerfiles / Docker Images / Docker Containers, plugins, etc. in unRAID is easier than Ubuntu? Webmin? A Desktop GUI? I can use Virt-Manager to walk through a simple Wizard to install a VM.... What are you going to? Have the user create / edit a 50+ line XML file with all the various options / choices to create a VM? Perhaps you should take a peak at the unRAID "CentOS Edition" Poll I created before you assume anything. 64-Bit unRAID "CentOS OS" Edition: 79.5% - Yes 11.5% - Maybe 9% - No Again, same problem different day. Tom / Jonp decide what is good / important for us instead of listening to their actual customers. For YEARS we have jumped up and down and begged, pleaded, cried for UPS, multiple filesystems, dual parity, 64-Bit, Documentation, move off of Slackware, Updated Wikis, move the 20 - 30 user created utilities we all use / need into the WebGUI, ability to install unRAID onto a system drive (which is sorta of what a cache drive is anyway), metadata file checks, encryption, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. We know what you think and you apparently are brand new to virtualization. What about what we think? You remember us, right? Look at this thread compared to any Docker one. It's crickets in here because not many people care about Virtualization now that we can use Docker to get access to any other Linux Distro but Slackware to install the apps we want. Still a complicated process, we are still depended on other users who do this for free but since LT has a love affair with Slackware... we have no choice.

Are we getting dual (or more) parity drives in unRAID 6? Are we getting metadata checks in unRAID 6? Are we getting encryption in unRAID 6? It's great you are catching up with the competition on multiple filesystems but if I have a drive with XFS or EXT4 stuff on it, will I be able to add it to unRAID without having to format it? I'm not dismissing what you have done but this is 5+ years old technology. Many of us were doing this with unRAID as a VM back in 2009 with ESXi 4 (including Video Card Passthrough). Sure there is a lot more support for hardware / video cards but this isn't blazing any new trails. You can do this in any Linux Distro or better yet in a Best of Breed Virtualization Platform like ESXi or XenServer (all of which are free). VMs are cool and all but I do not think you get why many of us used ESXi, XenServer, Virtualbox, etc for the last 5+ years. We needed access to any other Linux Distro so we could access a package manager. We did this because plugins have been a nightmare and often times crashed our servers / broke other plugins / etc. Sure a small group of us also put Windows, Linux and XBMC VMs (like what you are demonstrating) but if you haven't noticed a lot of the ESXi, Xenserver, Xen, etc. people are ditching it for Docker (another way to give us easy access to any other Linux Distro and it's package manager). Home Theater Installer Companies would probably be very interested in what you are doing here if you make it easy / support it. As for the rest of us, when it comes to NAS features / functionality... You are way behind the competition when it comes to some VERY IMPORTANT NAS functions / features like Security, Integrity and Fault Tolerance. Some you are addressing in unRAID 6 like multiple file systems, UPS, notifications, etc. but if you look above you still have some work to do. I have invested a lot of time / energy / effort into the Xen, XenServer, KVM, etc. all over this forum over the last several years so I am big fan of Virtualization. However, I think most of us here primarily for a NAS and to run a handful of Applications on it. With the addition of Docker (solved the Plugin, Slackware, no package manager issues) virtualization for most people is no longer needed / wanted. It still no matter what you say is going to be complicated. There is ZERO chance you are going to be able to explain in English how my sister is to install Ubuntu (she has no clue what Linux is) or Windows in a VM. That doesn't include whether or not she has the correct hardware and forget explaining PCI Passthrough without her taking a week to first learn what VT-D, which CPU to get, which motherboard, IOMMU, what PCI stands for, etc. I'd focus on NAS stuff and catch up with your NAS competitors. Reason why I say that, you are not going to be a Best of Breed Virtualization Server (you are missing a TON of tools, management features / functions) that other FREE products provide. If you continue to lag behind your NAS competition you will not be a Best of Breed NAS product either.

oVirt Supported Hosts: Fedora CentOS Red Hat Scientific Linux CentOS and Scientific Linux are 100% clones of Red Hat. Fedora is Red Hats testing Distro. Debian (experimental) Gentoo (experimental) They have been working on a port for Debian for years and some Linux Hacker has it sorta working in Gentoo (I did the same in Arch Linux). I highly doubt oVirt is every going to make a Slackware version. It makes no business sense because nobody uses Slackware.

Great to hear. I have all the respect in the world and you without a doubt know your stuff. I look forward to seeing what the end result is. It sounds like you plan on having a VM Store. Are you going to be housing / maintaining several ISOs / images for us? <facepalm>

If you buy very specific hardware, go through a 40+ hour training course on KVM or Xen, another 40+ hour course on Linux command line, another 40+ hour course on PCI Passthrough, run 2 cables through your house to a few TVs, plus some cat 5 to USB converters (for a remote)... You could put two video cards in your unRAID server and use those instead of buying a cheap Pi or other cheap ARM plex / xbmc device. Or if you want to run things like a router / firewall (like pfSense) or Windows... You could run it on your unRAID machine. Simply put, its not for normal users unless they have the time and ability to learn some complex things. If you ask me, there are other free Virtualiztion products out there that are years ahead of what unRAID can do. With 2 hands tied behind their back due to Slackware, using a root ram file system, 100,000+ less resources (people) than the competition does... I don't see them catching up anytime in the near future. Jonp is a bright guy so pulling it off in Slackware isn't out of the question. Still leaves the whole WebGUI part out which 10000+ times more complicated then what we do with unRAID. If they can't have a Virtualization WebGUI like the competition and do things like snapshots, VM migration, iSCSI, etc... I don't see the point in half assing it because you aren't going to win new business if you aren't on par with those other products (which are free). I just think they should focus on NAS stuff in Version 6, switch to a modern Linux Server Distro in unRAID 7 and then focus on Virtualization. Once they switch Distros, KVM and Xen will be FAR LESS complicated. ClarkOS, Proxmox, Open Media Vault, XenServer, Neth Server, etc. focus on their core compendiences and spend their time implimenting the stuff that other Linux Distros and Linux dorks like myself figure out for them. It would make much more business sense to look at a distributed file systems since a lot of people have more than one unRAID than who would but what I do I know...

Do you have Hardware Video Acceleration working in your XBMCbuntu VM? For many, that is going to be a deal breaker unless you have a beefy server / CPU(s). No love, huh? Why do I even bother....

Did you try this: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=31297.0 ? I will create a badass PXE Server that uses Tiny Core Linux and a HTTP Server (faster than tftpboot) for Menus and isos / images. I will work on it tomorrow and post it for all of you to test. Perhaps gfjardim wouldn't mind creating a slick WebGUI for adding / removing images and configuring the PXE Menu. I can get it close but he will need to take it the last mile. NOTE: I am not going to support this long term so one of you will have to take it and own it.

Can't speak for that MSI motherboard but if you want to do PCI Passthrough in the past with MSI... It is one of the worst offenders.

If you are already running Ubuntu as your main OS on a laptop... Docker will probably drive you mad unless you manage your own. We are running a Fork of Fork (Ubuntu>Phusion) and then Needo (who is doing a GREAT job) would have make any changes you want. For example, someone wanted ffmpeg added to one of the Apps. He didn't know how to do it himself in docker so he had to request it, wait for Needo to add it and then reinstall the container. Where as in a VM running a full blown Ubuntu, "apt-get install ffmpeg". Done! Docker is great but if you like to tinker / not depend on others and know Linux... it is more trouble than it is worth.

You can run several NICs but I am not sure if the unRAID webgui supports it. You could do some "magic" via go script to set up the bridges for those NICs. Yes you can run Docker along with Xen. You would need to tweak Xen to use another NIC / bridge. You will need a VM for pfsense, docker isn't possible. You are going to have to hack the crap out of unRAID to accommodate what you are doing in ESXi due to the current WebGUI, root ram file system and the way they have set up Xen on it. Unless you are a Linux Pro... You are going to be biting off more than you can chew.

You can use multiple filesystems so it's not an all or nothing type situation. If disks 1 - 4 are reiserfs and you add 5th drive, make it XFS. I went ahead and switch all my drives to XFS but I treated it like a project over a few days. First, I copied things around from all my Reiserfs drives till I had one disk that was empty. I then formatted it to XFS, copied an entire Reiserfs disk to new XFS disk and repeated over the next few days in my spare time. That way I didn't have the entire server down the whole time. I even blew away my parity drive and used it so I could do several drive copies at a time. I do not recommend that for most people but I know what I am doing.

You will have to copy from disk to disk. I took the drives out of unRAID and did it on another computer. Even on some of my POS slow spinners I was getting 120 Mb/s so it didn't take long. I HIGHLY recommend that you do not use BTRFS on your unRAID drives (cache drive is okay). BTRFS is not Server Grade Quality yet and has way too many outstanding bugs. Plus, they still have a bunch of features they will be introducing which will spawn more bugs.

Welcome to a modern day file system. Reiserfs has been dead forever. They even had reiser4 but that was never added to the Linux Kernel. Reiserfs is fast at small files but how many of us primarily are using small files? XFS is even faster than BTRFS when doing single threaded copies like most of us do. When doing several at once, BTRFS is slightly ahead.

If you have Linux skills and not doing PCI Passthrough (you aren't)... I would try a VM for your Apps. Once you get a Ubuntu or whatever VM going... You have a blank canvas and set it up / configure it however you want. You just SSH or VNC into it and it's like you installed it on a separate machine. If you want one VM to run CouchPotato, Sickbeard, SABnzbd... Follow any number of 1,000 guides on the web. If you want separate VMs, you could do that too. A lot of the users here were using a VM that a user provided instead of creating their own. He has since left so it's up to you to install / manage your own VM. Docker is great but it's more complicated for the average person to set up / create / manage than a VM. Needo has been nice enough to create / maintain a bunch of Apps for us in Docker which makes life a lot easier for you if you do not want to create / set up your own. Good thing about unRAID 6 is you can try both VMs and Docker and see which one works better for you.

I have only owned an iPod and iPhone back in the day. Both worked great and looked great. I've used a Mac here and there and the look and feel was awesome. Didn't many apps though. Apple is the richest company in the world so they must be doing some things right. In other news... Most of the anti-captialist I meet all worship Apple / Apple products. They don't seem to know / mind they are the richest company in the world and sitting on $150 Billion in cash. I love selective / fake outrage.

Not saying your idea is not wrong or a bad one but I think you do not have a good understanding of Linux and how Virtualization works on it. You are talking about enabling Xen, KVM, VMware with 3 little check boxes in the Kernel config when compiling it. Every single Linux Distro I can think of has those enabled by default. Including Red Hat, CentOS, Debian and even Slackware. In fact, I can't think of a Linux Distro that doesn't have it enabled. You have MILLIONS (probably BILLIONS) of servers with Virtualization enabled (although many not using it) doing 10,000 more complicated things than unRAID and handling Petabyte, Exabyte and Zettabyte of data no sweat. Where it would impact users like you is if they were to integrate it into the unRAID WebGUI. They have abandoned that idea and I suspect it will be a long time before they ever get around to it again / if ever. At this point all they have to do is update a few apps when new versions are released (which you would never see nor use). That takes minutes / hours, not days or weeks. Your idea of separate Virtualized unRAID version is a good idea should they ever decide to put the finishing touches on it. The reason why I would do this is because with PCI Passthrough with tons of consumer motherboards and video cards out there... You have to run a bleeding edge Linux Kernel (especially for KVM) and even that will require patching for various things for the foreseeable future. Since we are talking about a 3 or 4 man company who does not "outsource" the Linux OS to CentOS / Debian / etc. (which has 100,000+ developers / Maintainers) they are not going to be able to keep up with all of those hacks / patches for the Kernel(s) and apps those programs use. They could drop unRAID "normal version" back down to a long term supported Kernel (like many Linux Server Distros / Appliances do). On the unRAID "Virtual Server Edition" run a more bleeding edge Linux Kernel for those users. That is what I would do if I was them if they continue to use Slackware as the Base OS. If they were to ever switch to CentOS / Debian / etc, they could handle this via their own Repo and have a Virtual Kernel / Apps that would install through a package manager.

LOL! Yes, but if you need Wine... Create a Windows VM. What command line / Web App Windows program could you possible run that doesn't have a Linux equivalent?

That is horsecrap and you have a bad case of "Stockholm Syndrome" to the point you are one of his defenders even. How do I know? I own an IT / Outsourcing Consulting business and work just as hard and deal with more complex customers / issues regarding software / infrastructure / deployments / implementations that are 1,000 times more complicated than anything unRAID is doing. Yet, I still find time to respond to paying customers questions and even unRAID people too. Not to mention, I still found time to create a 64-Bit unRAID, Virtualization, install unRAID in CentOS, Debian and Arch before Tom did. Tom has been in MIA for MONTHS now and has a LONG and DETAILED history of ignoring us and not communicating. Busy my ass... He either doesn't give a shit, laughing at our stupidity or both. My guess, both. We are well aware. When Tom feels like letting us bottom dwellers know he will wave his hand and permit Jonp to share the news. Elan over at Plex gets the whole communication / Road Maps / Investing in the company (Tom is 10 years late) / Branding / Marketing / Customer Experience / Customer Service / Going the extra mile (instead of the half baked shit Tom does) / etc. He took XBMC and put all of the following above around it (showed it some love too) and made over $100 Mill in the last 2 years. I will email Elan and tell him he is doing it wrong and conduct his business like Tom. His revenues, word of mouth, subscriptions, reputation, etc. will soar I'm sure. Quit making excuses. There isn't a soul here who treats his boss the way we are by Tom and nobody here who owns a business treats his customers the way we are either.

I'd say its a fact. unRAID 6 is going to have virtualization, Docker, plugins, etc. FreeNAS, Open Media Vault, Proxmox, Neth Server, Smart OS, Clear OS, Openfiler, Turnkey Linux and I could keep going. All of those do some, same or more than unRAID 6 can and so does every other opensource NAS product and store bought ones. My 7 year old POS unRAID box doing all kinds of apps, functions and even running XBMC still only consumes 10% of the horsepower it has. Not to mention there are MILLIONS of Home media users with NAS boxes and how many times do you see in Plex, XBMC, here, etc. where someone lost their data because of an app? Its either hard drive failure or user error. Not Linux up and corrupting data on our machines because its pissed off we are running mysql on it. What he said is true in the corporate world about dedicated data storage but I am not a fortune 500 company and do not have a data center or billions of disposible income. Also, two unRAID servers is foolish for several reasons as I pointed out several pages ago if you want better fault tolerance, flexabilty, management, high availibilty, security, managed from one GUI. etc. This also shows he is stuck in 2005 too. I'm all for options. unRAID could easily strip out the stuff in 6 and make a NAS appliance to give those people peace of mind. I wouldn't bet on it though. People have been asking about unRAID 5 status for months and all Tom does is show his distain for his paying customers by not even bothering to take 5 minutes of his time to respond to us commoners when he already knows the answer. Even Jonp said he is waiting for his permission to share the news. The joke is on us and he is the only one laughing (which is at us). I am convinced that we all have "Stockholm Syndrome" and he knows it. He "beats" us, we believe we deserve it and cause he loves us. Some users will thank / defend him and ask for another "beating". Sad really... But that is our reality and his idea of customer experience / service.