New(bie) build - help me vet my server to be.

[ratmice]

First I would like to say Hello to the Forum, this is my first post, and it's quite long. I have been lurking here for a bit - finally registered the other day. I want to thank, in advance, anyone who reads this post and offers suggestions. I really appreciate any input.

 

I am considering building an UnRAID server to finally get rid of the pile of HDDs I have collected over the years. Hopefully, a lot of those drives could be repurposed in the array once the data is retrieved. Mostly to be used for storage and streaming, but backing up the various computers in the house is a bonus. Also the ability to run UnMenu and UnTorrent would be fabulous.

 

The budget for the beast should be $1K, or under would be better (of course!), but I don't want to have a system that will need constant upgrades (MoBo, CPU) to keep up with the task. I know that's probably a pipe dream.

 

I am as new to computer/server building as you can be, but have been doing a lot of reading/lurking and am not afraid to experiment. I am also a Linux newbie, I have had Macs since 1984 and really never touch any other OS (well Windows via bootcamp very occasionally).

 

Large capacity and expandability is going to be key for my uses. I am going to use a server chassis. New drives will be green drives, but some of the other drives I have are not so green.

 

Stuff I have figured out (I think):

 

Case: Norco RPC-4220

• I will also get the 3x120mm fan plane, as that seems to offer better airflow. This is bundled with a 2TB Samsung drive through 2/9/11 so I may have to bite the bullet on it ASAP.

SATA Expansion cards: SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 (2), PCI-Express x1 Controller Card (Silicon Image SIL3132)

• Obviously the SATA cards depend on how many ports are on the MoBo. I need (eventually) 22 drives (20 data + cache + parity). If I can find a MoBo with 6 SATA ports that would get rid of the SIL3132.

Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-750TX or Maybe Corsair CMPSU-650TX

• Recommendations here would be appreciated. This PS seems to be used a lot with minimal issues.

Fans: GELID Solutions FN-TX12-15 120mm Case Fan with Superior Temperature Control,

• As usual, if there are other, better options, I am open to suggestion. Also could use suggestions for temp controller for fans.

Cables: NORCO C-SFF8087-4S Discrete to SFF-8087 (Reverse breakout) Cable (1), NORCO C-SFF8087-D SFF-8087 to SFF-8087 Internal Multilane SAS Cable (4), I have plenty of spare SATA cables around for the 2 additional drives. Probably have a few molex power splitters around, too - if not easy to find. OK, what am I missing here?

 

Here's where I am getting in WAY over my head:

 

MoBo: I know I want on-board video, at least 2 PCI-Express (4x min.) and one other PCI slot, on-board USB, so the UnRAID flash can live inside the case, 6 SATA connectors (4 OK). Anything else I need to consider? There are just so many options, lots of which seem to be discontinued, that my head is swimming. Seems like form factor is not an issue with the size case I want to use. Also, should I perhaps wait for the new MoBos that will allow > 2TB disks, or is that too far away to consider?

CPU: Not a clue what to look for here. Seem like 2GHz minimum, after that not sure what to look for. Obviously depends on the MoBo, too.

Ram: 2GB (maybe 4), type dependent on MoBo requirements.

 

 

General questions:

 

• I am not going to populate the case completely initially, is it better to buy all the components now to be prepared down the road. or should I just get the stuff I need, when I need it. For example, I could probably do with one SATA card initially, but I don't want to get stuck with incompatibilities, or no source for parts, in the future.

 

• Is it OK to use 2.5" drive for cache? I would like to utilize the small drive mounts in the unit. Also, is there some way to figure out how large a cache drive should be? I think I read that the cache drive could be a PATA drive, true?

 

Thanks for reading this far.

 

[Joe L.]

Everything sounds reasonable except HD audio on the motherboard will not be used. 

The only audio unRAID knows about is the motherboard speaker.  It has the ability to get it to "beep" 

 

If you have an idea to re-purpose the motherboard at some point in the future, the type of onboard audio might be a criteria for your purchase, but do not exclude a motherboard because it does not have built-in HD-audio.

 

Yes you can use a 2.5 inch disk for cache, or a PATA disk, but many people do not use a cache drive at all.  It was sometimes needed to keep up with video being recorded to the disks when the native write speed to the array was 8 or 9 MB/s, but many people today report write speeds of 25 to 35 Mb/s without a cache drive. (lots of improvements in the past 5 years)

 

Joe L.

 

 

[ohlwiler]

I would recommend the Corsair 650tx over the 750tx because it is made by Seasonic and the 750tx is not.

 

Many others have used the Supermicro X8SIL with Norco cases. IPM is available on the most expensive model.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182247

 

If using two SASLPs you will only need one reverse breakout cable and will need four SFF-8087 cables.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816133034

 

I would recommend at least a dual core processor. My Celeron 430 throttles my parity check speeds, while my Celeron E3200 does not. (If you choose an 1156 motherboard this won't be an issue).

[ratmice]

Thanks for the correction about the cables, ohlwiler.

 

I found an ASUS p5b deluxe MoBo a local computer store for 100.00, seems like a great board, just will need a PCI video card because no onboard video.any comments about this board? Is that a decent price? It seems to be d/c at newegg so i wasnt able to compare price. Also, what dual core CPU would play well with it?

[tgggd86]

Welcome, I am new as well but am a very experienced system builder.  Look at my build at the following link.  The CPU, Mobo and RAM look like what you're looking for, maybe a bit more.  The MOBO is EXCELLENT if you are looking for a server to last you a long time and have little need to do future upgrades.

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=10813.0

[Rajahal]

The ASUS p5b deluxe is a bit outdated, I really don't think it is worth $100.  Still, it would work.  I personally would never choose a board without onboard video, though.  It can make troubleshooting a nightmare.

 

I agree that you should use the Corsair 650TX over the 750.  The only reason you would ever need to go above the 650 is if you wanted to run mostly 7200 rpm drives.

 

One thing confuses me, though - you say you want 22 drive support but are choosing the Norco 4220?  So you are planning on using two 2.5" drives in the top slots?  Nothing wrong with that, but why not upgrade to the Norco 4224 and have 22 full 3.5" slots?  That would give you more flexibility for future expansion.  If the price difference is too much, then that makes sense.  Also, be forewarned that the 120mm fanplate is designed for the Norco 4224.  While Norco claims it fits in the 4220 as well, members on these forums have reported having to resort to quite a bit of modification to get it to fit correctly.

 

Finally, if you find a motherboard with 6 SATA ports and 2 x PCIex4 or faster slots, then you won't need the SIL3132 card.  You'll have 6 + 8 +8 = 22.

 

 

[ratmice]

First, thanks for taking time to comment.

 

The ASUS p5b deluxe is a bit outdated, I really don't think it is worth $100.  Still, it would work.  I personally would never choose a board without onboard video, though.  It can make troubleshooting a nightmare.

 

OK, I am so overwhelmed by MoBo choices I just thought I'd start with one that was on the compatibility list that I saw today. I think I have to go with onboard video just to keep conflicts down to a minimum. Thnaks for pushing me in the right direction

 

I agree that you should use the Corsair 650TX over the 750.  The only reason you would ever need to go above the 650 is if you wanted to run mostly 7200 rpm drives.

 

My other concern is that if/when we get support for >2TB drives will those typically be more power hungry? I guess I need to research this a bit.

 

One thing confuses me, though - you say you want 22 drive support but are choosing the Norco 4220?  So you are planning on using two 2.5" drives in the top slots?  Nothing wrong with that, but why not upgrade to the Norco 4224 and have 22 full 3.5" slots?  That would give you more flexibility for future expansion.  If the price difference is too much, then that makes sense.  Also, be forewarned that the 120mm fanplate is designed for the Norco 4224.  While Norco claims it fits in the 4220 as well, members on these forums have reported having to resort to quite a bit of modification to get it to fit correctly.

 

Hey 60 buck is 60 bucks  Plus, you get a 2TB drive with the 4220.

 

My plan was to use one of the 2.5" top slots for a cache drive, and I was hoping to (ghetto) rig another 3.5 inside the aft compartment of the chassis for the parity drive. My thought was that there should be excellent airflow back there to help cool the parity drive (as that one seems to have the heat issues), and the chassis appears to have a bunch of room, too. Maybe that's  not a good idea?

 

Well, the fitment of the fan plate is news to me. I took Norco on their word that it would work in the 4220. I'm not that averse to making use of my Dremel, but I'll look around for the horror stories first.

 

Finally, if you find a motherboard with 6 SATA ports and 2 x PCIex4 or faster slots, then you won't need the SIL3132 card.  You'll have 6 + 8 +8 = 22.

 

Understood, thanks.

[Rajahal]

My other concern is that if/when we get support for >2TB drives will those typically be more power hungry? I guess I need to research this a bit.

 

Of course I can't predict the future, but I expect that this won't be an issue.  2 TB drives today are far more power efficient than the 500 GB drives of a few years ago.  The trend is towards lower power consumption, not greater.  I fully expect 3 and 4 TB drives to be more efficient than today's 2 TB drives.

 

My plan was to use one of the 2.5" top slots for a cache drive, and I was hoping to (ghetto) rig another 3.5 inside the aft compartment of the chassis for the parity drive. My thought was that there should be excellent airflow back there to help cool the parity drive (as that one seems to have the heat issues), and the chassis appears to have a bunch of room, too. Maybe that's  not a good idea?

 

That should work.  As you said, there's plenty of room inside, you'll just probably have to drill some new holes for the HDD mounts.  However, keep in mind that the parity drive is just as important as any data drive.  So if ANY drive fails, EVERY OTHER drive is required to recovery the data off the failed drive.  So just be sure that your parity drive is treated as nicely as your data drives (in terms of airflow, etc.).

[ratmice]

Another couple of questions:

 

• Do people mirror their parity drives? Seems like that's the one under the most stress.

 

• What kind of fan-speed/temp controllers do people use with good reliability?

 

• What kind of changes to MoBo/CPU would the expectation of using the server as a media Streamer (XBMC, YAMJ, etc...) impose?

[Joe L.]

Another couple of questions:

 

• Do people mirror their parity drives? Seems like that's the one under the most stress.

Actually, it is just the opposite for most of us.  We load the data once on the server, then most of the activity is reading the data disks.  The parity disk stays spun down 95% of the time. It it the least used.

[ratmice]

Another couple of questions:

 

• Do people mirror their parity drives? Seems like that's the one under the most stress.

Actually, it is just the opposite for most of us.  We load the data once on the server, then most of the activity is reading the data disks.  The parity disk stays spun down 95% of the time. It it the least used.

 

Didn't explain myself clearly: when parity checks are done, seems to be the most work for drives, particularly the parity drive, I assume. Since this one is very important, do people mirror it for a safeguard.

[aiden]

Didn't explain myself clearly: when parity checks are done, seems to be the most work for drives, particularly the parity drive, I assume.

As Joe said, your parity drive is only used when data is written to the array, and during a monthly parity check.  Your data drives run during reads, writes, and parity checks.  So your data drives get much more of a workout.

 

Since this one is very important, do people mirror it for a safeguard.

This is a misconception about the parity drive.  If you lose the parity drive, you still have all of your data without having to recover anything.  If you lose a data drive, you have to rebuild it from the parity contained on the parity drive.  Your parity drive is no more important than any other drive in your array.

[Joe L.]

 If you lose a data drive, you have to rebuild it from the parity contained on the parity drive.  Your parity drive is no more important than any other drive in your array.

Also a misconception...

 

If you lose a data drive, you have to rebuild it from the parity contained on the parity drive

in combination with the data on every other remaining working data drive.

 

All the remaining data drives plus parity are needed to re-construct one missing drive. 

For that reason your second statement is exactly correct:

Your parity drive is no more important than any other drive in your array.

 

 

[aiden]

If you lose a data drive, you have to rebuild it from the parity contained on the parity drive

in combination with the data on every other remaining working data drive.

 

All the remaining data drives plus parity are needed to re-construct one missing drive.

I knew this, but didn't state it, as it seemed obvious to me that by the definition of parity you cannot "calculate" the missing data without all the other pieces being in place to perform the parity calculation.  Thank you for clarifying. 

[ratmice]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.