christuf Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Dear unRAID community, I love this exceptionally active community - I have learned *so* much from reading all the Wiki articles, blog posts and particularly these forums. Having done much reading, thinking, and planning, I am getting ready to pull the trigger on my first system. Before I set out the details though, here is my current setup, and goals for my new system. Currently I run an Scaleo home-server - it's effectively an inexpensive NAS storage device I got before I knew unRAID existed. It is set up with 4x 1.5TB drives configured in a RAID5 array. It has worked well with a web interface panel and the drive appears as a network device in OS X. But now it's getting near capacity, so am looking into building myself a new, scalable, unRAID system. So - these are my unRAID requirements: - A system that starts with a handful of drives, upgradable to 15 drives - A gradual build-out process - Able to use my current 1.5TB drives (no point in wasting them!) - Hot swap-able backplane (convenience, and honestly, it looks cool!) - While I don't want to go crazy, money isn't a huge factor Here's my plan... a build in three phases. Phase 1: Here are the components I've picked out for the initial build-out. - Case: Antec 900 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021) - Motherboard: Biostar A760G M2+ (http://cgi.ebay.com/BIOSTAR-A760G-M2-SOCKET-AM2-AM3-MOTHERBOARD-AMD-CHIPS-/370478094229?pt=Motherboards&hash=item5642371795#ht_2517wt_943) - Processor: 2.7 GHz AMD Sempron 140 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103698&Tpk=sempron%20140) - Memory: Kingston 2 GB DDR2 800 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134636) - PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005&cm_re=corsair_650-_-17-139-005-_-Product) - Hard disk: Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514) - Backplane: ICY DOCK MB455SPF-B Multi-Bay (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994028) - unRAID: Pro! I've picked out a case, motherboard, and PSU that should ultimately be able to support my 15-drive device. In the process I will take care of any 'hook' obstructions so that future backplane installs are painless. I plan to take advantage of the six on-board SATA ports on the motherboard for the first phase. Installing one of the backplanes and hooking up to five of the ports gets me up to 8TB of storage. I will then hard-install a sixth drive 2TB (7200rpm drive for speed given it's not part of the parity array) into one of the empty 5.25" bays and set it up as a cache disk. I'm using this both as a cache as well as warm spare drive in case of a drive failure. After setting up and migrating the data from my old RAID array, I will then retire that system for the time being. This gives me an opportunity to bring the new system up and road-test it for a good number of months before wiping the old drives for use in the new system... just in case something goes awry! Once, I'm at capacity in my 8TB system, then it's onto... Phase 2: In this phase, I'm adding another backplane to support an additional five drives. - Backplane: Icy Dock (as above) - SATA Controller: SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCIe (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358&T) The SATA controller gives me an additional eight channels, of which I will use only four in this phase. I take my cache drive out of the case and place it into the 2nd backplane. I then take the four 1.5TB drives from my old NAS system and place them into the remaining bays - this gives me an additional 6TB of storage (up to a total of 14TB). I've also got four free SATA channels on the controller, useful for... Phase 3: In the final phase I put in the last backplane and drives - Backplane: Icy Dock (as above) - SATA Controller: TBD (PCIe x1) - Hard disk: Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB Given my four open SATA channels from Phase 2, and the availability of 1x PCI-e x1 slot, I use a 2-channel SATA Card to give me remaining connections. I put the remaining 5x 2TB drives into the new backplane - although unRAID might support 4TB hard-drives by then! I will also assess matters at this point - if space permits, I could place one final drive in the case somewhere to get the 15+1 cache (I have one spare SATA channel). Although at this point, who knows where technology will be! So - my questions really are: 1) How does my proposed strategy look? 2) Are the any other components I should consider instead of those listed above? 3) What about fans/ cooling? By looking at the case, it has plenty of ventilation to start with. But as I start using the front bays for backplanes, there will be reduced ventilation with an increasing number of drives. At what point should I start to worry about temperatures? 4) Do you have any advice for software (preferably OS X-based) for transferring data from my RAID5 server to the new unRAID box? I want something more reliable than an operating system copy to ensure the integrity of the files transferred. I have picked up the tip to not configure the parity drive until after the transfer to improve performance. My sincere thanks to those of you that made it all the way to the end. I am tremendously grateful for any advice or thoughts you may have about this project! Chris Quote Link to comment
DoeBoye Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Your plan seems sound! One thing I would consider is perhaps future-proofing the build a bit more. Since cash isn't too big an issue, you might want to consider upsizing the case to the Twelve Hundred and picking a board that can support 2 8-port boards instead of one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043 You might not think you'll ever need the storage, but most people seem to use more when more is available... Think of it as insurance Quote Link to comment
christuf Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Great suggestion - I kinda wanted to have 20+ drive capacity, but didn't like the rack-mount case in the standard builds... this will keep me going for another few years for an extra $200-300! Many thanks DoeBoye! Quote Link to comment
NodNarb012 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 +1 on the better case. I have the 900 and I find that it's cramped using the stock hard drive bays. I can't imagine using it with a non-modular PSU and 5-in-3 cages. Also, the link you provided for the Icy Dock cages threw me off since it points to the 4-in-3's and not the 5-in-3's. You have the model number correct in your post, but the link is wrong. Quote Link to comment
DoeBoye Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 No Problem christuf! Glad to help out . I quickly looked around for a reasonably priced board that supports multiple 8-port cards, and I came across this guy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153186 The reviews aren't overwhelming on Newegg, but not bad. One member (Josh) in this forum posted some fairly positive things about it's performance as well, and he seems to be running a problem-free build with more than 20 drives: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=9849.0 http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=10085.0 You still might want to spend some more time poking around the forums for a suitable (2 or more 4x+ PCI-e slots) mobo though. I hear a lot of good things about SuperMicro boards, but you tend to pay more for them... HTH! Quote Link to comment
prostuff1 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I quickly looked around for a reasonably priced board that supports multiple 8-port cards, and I came across this guy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153186 I believe Rajahal will be getting one of these boards soonish to do some independent testing on it. The initial testing by forum member josh looks positive!! You still might want to spend some more time poking around the forums for a suitable (2 or more 4x+ PCI-e slots) mobo though. I hear a lot of good things about SuperMicro boards, but you tend to pay more for them... The supermicro boards cost more because they are server class boards. Plus a lot of them have the "extra" PCIe slots needed and they have IPMI. You truly can not appreciate IPMI until you have used it. Quote Link to comment
Superorb Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Is there any easy way to tell if you can use the PCIe x16 slot to run an SASLP card for any motherboard, or does it normally vary? Quote Link to comment
prostuff1 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Is there any easy way to tell if you can use the PCIe x16 slot to run an SASLP card for any motherboard, or does it normally vary? There is no "easy" way to tell. Your best bet if you have any doubt or no one has used one in the x16 slot before is to email tech support for the motherboard manufacturer. Quote Link to comment
DoeBoye Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I believe Rajahal will be getting one of these boards soonish to do some independent testing on it. The initial testing by forum member josh looks positive!! That's good news! It definitely looks promising The supermicro boards cost more because they are server class boards. Plus a lot of them have the "extra" PCIe slots needed and they have IPMI. You truly can not appreciate IPMI until you have used it. I've never actually seen IPMI in action, but I sort of regret not buying a board with it for my existing build.... Guess I'll save it for my next one Is there any easy way to tell if you can use the PCIe x16 slot to run an SASLP card for any motherboard, or does it normally vary? For new motherboards at least, I believe I read something by Rajahal recently that mentioned manufacturers are wising up about putting video-only limitations on PCI-e slots, and it's becoming a non-issue... Quote Link to comment
christuf Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Thank you all for your very helpful replies. NodNarb012 - very good spot on the backplane indeed! Copied the wrong like, but have updated the OP. Thank you for pointing out the error! DoeBoye - thank you very much for the motherboard research - I have done some thinking and will almost certainly go with the SuperMicro. I have read nothing but good things about it on the forums, and think (like yourself) I might regret not going with it. It is a hefty extra $100 or so - but when you price out the whole system (I estimate $3k+ including drives), it isn't a big deal. I'm also not going to have a lot of patience with hardware issues - I don't mind spending hours to iron out software/ config, but hardware issues drive me crazy! In terms of the 1200 case - it looks like it has a lot of fans... with those included and the fans on the back of the backplanes, do you think that it will keep cool enough? Many thanks again all! Chris Quote Link to comment
Superorb Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 In terms of the 1200 case - it looks like it has a lot of fans... with those included and the fans on the back of the backplanes, do you think that it will keep cool enough? Many thanks again all! Chris Most (if not all) of the fans in the 1200 should have 3 speed settings on them, so you can choose the level of cooling you'd like. But, if you're using 5in3's cooling will be determined by the included fans unless you swap them out. Quote Link to comment
Rajahal Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I recommend the Norco SS-500 5-in-3s as they are cheaper and slightly better quality than the Icy Docks. I'll admit that the Icy Docks look cooler, though. I don't expect to be able to test out that Jetway board for a good couple of weeks, so don't wait on me for that one. I also recommend Supermicro boards, especially the X8SIL-F-O. I've also got a few spare C2SEEs if you need one. Both can take two SASLP cards. I actually love the Antec 900 (well, I use the 902). But if you want a bigger case, the Antec 1200 is a good choice too. I'm building a server for a client right now using the Lian Li P80 and four of the Norco drive cages. It is a very nice build, though the case is about twice as expensive as the Antec 1200. Quote Link to comment
christuf Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 I recommend the Norco SS-500 5-in-3s as they are cheaper and slightly better quality than the Icy Docks. I'll admit that the Icy Docks look cooler, though. Oh man Rajahal... you've messed me up now. I love the look of the Icy Dock backplane, but the better build quality and, more importantly, cheaper price might really swing it for me! Ack - thought I had that decision nailed down... I'm building a server for a client right now using the Lian Li P80 and four of the Norco drive cages. It is a very nice build, though the case is about twice as expensive as the Antec 1200. I just went to compare specs on the 1200 vs the P80 and found NewEgg has deactivated the 1200!!! Man you have to buy all this gear quickly... I already noticed that there's an update on the PSU (thank you for that in the deals forum). At this rate, I might have to totally re-spec the machine when I pull the trigger in a week! FYI - there's a new Antec 1200 (v3). You can see the manufacturer's website and NewEgg. Any thoughts on the new case...? The P80 is beautiful, but I don't think I can justify the comparatively big price tag to myself, unless there's something I'm not appreciating. Thank you so much for your input! Quote Link to comment
Rajahal Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 The V3 looks fine to me. It looks like Antec did the same thing as they did with the 902 - they dropped the eSATA version (V2) and released a USB 3.0 version (V3). While of course this is better for most people, it isn't as good for unRAID users are eSATA could be used for another array drive, whereas USB 3.0 cannot. As long as you don't care too much about having an external drive, then the V3 is perfectly fine. Quote Link to comment
christuf Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Thank you for the vote of confidence... I see the USB 3 port now. Honestly - after I fill this up with 5x4 drives, I think it'll probably be due an upgrade!!! Have you heard anything about the new Supermicro motherboards to support the new Sandy Bridge 1155 processors? Release dates seem (hopefully!) soon... what are the chances that these wouldn't be compatible with UnRaid? Quote Link to comment
Superorb Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 FYI - there's a new Antec 1200 (v3). You can see the manufacturer's website and NewEgg. Any thoughts on the new case...? At $180 for the Antec 1200, you'd be much better off just buying a Norco case. Otherwise, you'd be out much more cash buying a bunch of 5in3 cages when the Norco case already comes with them. Of course, if you don't plan on any hot-swap cages than you'd be fine with an Antec 300 and save a bunch of cash. They're $54 shipped on Newegg right now. Quote Link to comment
christuf Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Otherwise, you'd be out much more cash buying a bunch of 5in3 cages when the Norco case already comes with them. Yes - those Norco's are great value for money... hadn't appreciated that. However the rack-mount format is a real drawback... has anyone come up with a good way to turn these into a tower-style server? Of course, if you don't plan on any hot-swap cages than you'd be fine with an Antec 300 and save a bunch of cash. They're $54 shipped on Newegg right now. It's pretty wasteful I know, but I really want hot-swap cages... I just think they look so cool. Also, I'm intending on building this piece-meal (putting in HDD as I need them), so there's some justification for it (in my mind anyway!) Thank you for the advice Superorb! Quote Link to comment
Superorb Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Yes - those Norco's are great value for money... hadn't appreciated that. However the rack-mount format is a real drawback... has anyone come up with a good way to turn these into a tower-style server? I had thought the same thing. I also don't like how the top drive gets all the heat as it rises from the lower drives in each cage. I don't have a rack or a shelf to put this in, they all just sit on the floor. Although, since it's a good idea to keep PC equipment at least a foot off the floor, I might get a small shelf/table to keep the parts away from dust. It's pretty wasteful I know, but I really want hot-swap cages... I just think they look so cool. Also, I'm intending on building this piece-meal (putting in HDD as I need them), so there's some justification for it (in my mind anyway!) Thank you for the advice Superorb! Your welcome I'm planning on also adding drives once I start piecing together a server. I've got two 2TB and a single 1.5TB drive that I'm using for data now. I'll need at least another drive to store the data while the disks are readied for the server though. Quote Link to comment
Rajahal Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You can run a rackmount case on its side to save on the footprint, but past that I've got no better ideas to make it more 'tower-like'. Quote Link to comment
ccruzen Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Yes - those Norco's are great value for money... hadn't appreciated that. However the rack-mount format is a real drawback... has anyone come up with a good way to turn these into a tower-style server? If you haven't seen this link, you may want to check it out. I haven't done it yet but once I've upgraded to a Norco case I'm planning on giving it a shot. I'm sure though, that some re-inforcement will be necessary. Quote Link to comment
madburg Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Awesome, cray site! Thanks for sharing Quote Link to comment
DoeBoye Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 If you haven't seen this link, you may want to check it out. Arggg! If only I had seen this link before I bought my 12u rack!! I even have a Lack Side Table that I believe has fallen into disfavour with The Missus!! . Ah well! If anyone does this, I'd love to see some pics! And the best thing is that our local Ikea has been selling these for $7.50 each!! Quote Link to comment
NodNarb012 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 If you haven't seen this link, you may want to check it out. I haven't done it yet but once I've upgraded to a Norco case I'm planning on giving it a shot. I'm sure though, that some re-inforcement will be necessary. That is FANTASTIC! I'm so doing this. I think I'll stack two of them and use the top of the bottom table to help support the equipment. Quote Link to comment
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