Hi guys,

 

I just lost one of ATA drives last night and I would really like to replace it with a SATA drive.  However, I'm running the original UnRaid DIY hardware with only 2 SATA ports and both are currently in use.  I also saw the post here regarding not using more than 2 SATA drives on the PCI bus so I was thinking it might be a good time to upgrade the hardware and get some better performance.  My question is this though:  Can I upgrade the hardware at the same time I'm replacing a dead drive?  So I would upgrade the Motherboard, CPU, and RAM and then replace the dead ATA drive with a nice big SATA drive.  Will that work or am I just asking for trouble?

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Doug

Personally, as painfull as it might be, I would replace the ATA drive, let it rebuild then run parity check before upgarde. Then you are confident your disks and data is good before you through it onto new hardware. Anything happens then, at  least you know it won't be because you are moving everything with a dead drive. And besides, I have no idea how unRaid might handle the move to new controllers and having to re-assign disks to slots when you have a dead one.

 

Your data, I would play it safe.

 

Shawn

 

I had a feeling that was the correct answer.....

 

Oh well at least this is the cheaper option for now.  It's just the idea of replacing the drive with only 500GB when I could be replacing it with 2TB or more. 

 

Oh well,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Doug

Don't forget that your new drive, being the highest capacity in your unRAID configuration, would have to be used as the parity drive.  I can't think of any way that you could juggle the drives around to achieve that without reconstructing the data from the dead drive first.  It might just be possible if you were to buy two new drives plus the upgrade hardware.

Hi guys,

I just lost one of ATA drives last night and I would really like to replace it with a SATA drive.  However, I'm running the original UnRaid DIY hardware with only 2 SATA ports and both are currently in use.  I also saw the post here regarding not using more than 2 SATA drives on the PCI bus so I was thinking it might be a good time to upgrade the hardware and get some better performance.  My question is this though:  Can I upgrade the hardware at the same time I'm replacing a dead drive?  So I would upgrade the Motherboard, CPU, and RAM and then replace the dead ATA drive with a nice big SATA drive.  Will that work or am I just asking for trouble?

Doug

 

There is no rule regarding the number of SATA drives on the PCI bus ( you can have 3, 4 even 8 if you want). You just have to be aware that the parity builds / checks will take a longer (with 8 drives much longer) to complete.

In theory, you can shut down, move the drives to a new board, power-up, assign the drives again as well as a new replacement and rebuild. However, if you have hardware issues it will screw with your data.

 

Can you move the data to another drive somewhere else? If you can do this then I see no reason not to update to better hardware at the same time. Similarily, if the data isn't that important then you could upgrade the hardware at the same time. Just know what the data is so you can more easily replace it if it gets lost.

 

I really wouldn't spend the cash on a 500gig IDE drive. Worst case, I would buy a 2T hard drive and the cheapest PCI to SATA card you can find, which should cost about $15.

 

You never posted how many IDE drives and what IDE controllers you have so we have no idea how hard it would be to change the motherboard to get more SATA ports. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with any specific DIY hardware, since DIY hardware implies using any hardware that works.

 

Peter

In theory, you can shut down, move the drives to a new board, power-up, assign the drives again as well as a new replacement and rebuild.

 

Yes, that bit I understand and agree with.  I'm just not clear how to approach that if the new drive is the biggest drive and has, therefore, to become the parity drive, while still having a dead data drive.  If that really is possible, then unRAID is more adaptable than I thought.

step one. don't panic. that's when people mess up and lose all their data. just go forward cautiously and re-check each step before you do anything.

 

Question.

 

How big is the toasted drive? if you're talking smallish, 250 or less. those can be found used cheap. as companies are upgrading to new PC's, they tend to toss out (recycle) or return leased units. there are hundreds of older systems, many still IDE out there. Many places striping and parting out these systems. If you have friends in IT or have a local microcenter or even ebay. it should be free to a few dollars for a used drive.

 

as much as i would never trust a used drive. you might find one for seriously cheap, and use that route to save cash and save the array and then start shopping for a a new low cost server

asap?

 

if you plan to put off upgrading to a while, then just buy a new drive for peace of mind.

 

another option might be. if your motherboard support another sata card. even an older pci sata1 adapter (if unraid even supports them?). get a nice new sata drive and call that new drive the first step to upgrading. you will probably have to toss the card out though. but you re investing in the new drive. don't forget the parity drive must be equal or larger.

 

Another question. what is you re total data pool  size?

If you re under 4TB. maybe it is time to upgrade. Build a new low cost server (or go all out if you want ), use a free license to build a 3x2TB box and migrate your data to the new server. run both servers side by side and sync them. then retire the old one once you're satisfied with the old one.

 

 

I would avoid "transplanting" the  the drives  in a broken parity state to a new system. also most new boards don't have  IDE. consider it a dead technology. enjoy the speed of sata2/3

 

I don't think there is much in your old system you would want to keep for a new server. maybe the sata drives and the usb unraid key. possibly the case? the power supply might be to small/old at this point. it might be the perfect time for an upgrade. think of it as a blessing in disguise?

 

 

Posting your complete build might help us help you. We are sort of guessing here.

There is a procedure called 'parity swap' that would work in your situation.  However, you'll have to tread carefully.  As Johnm said, we'll need to know how many ATA drives you are currently using before we can really advise you properly.

 

Another possibility, although a bit of a lash-up, will also work.

 

You can get an SATA to IDE convertor.  At one point I had one on a drive on my older unRAID server.  It allows a new SATA drive to be adapted to an IDE cable.  The adapter is pretty inexpensive.

 

Here is one example http://www.amazon.com/Serial-DVD-ROM-Interface-Convert-Adapter/dp/B002Y2NI4M/ref=pd_cp_e_0

 

I'd get as inexpnsive PARITY drive as I can find... Personally, I use a 1TB on my older array.  Then, the procedure is called a parity-swap-disable.

 

The existing drive must have already been disabled (red indicator on mgmt display)  If not, unplug it and it will show as disabled.  Then

Stop the array

Put the old parity drive in the spot previously occupied by the failed data drive.  (or assign it on the devices page once you power up)

Put the new SATA drive (with the adapter) in the spot occupied by the old parity drive. Or, you can install a 2-port SATA disk controller and plug the drive into it.  If you do, you'll need to use the "devices" page to assign it as parity)

When you power up, the display will say something about copying the old parity to the new drive and when you start the array that will be the first thing it does.  The array will be off-line while that step occurs.  Then, after that step is complete it will use the new parity drive to re-construct the failed drive's contents onto the old parity drive, now installed as a data drive.

 

The whole process will take many hours... just be patient.

 

Do not FORMAT any drives, do not set a new disk configuration, do not press any "restore" button, do not change any of the other drives or add any other than the one you are installing as the new parity drive.

 

Joe L.

 

edit: found better link.... $4.00 shipping included is about as good as you'll get.

Yes, unRAID does allow you to replace a failed disk with one that is larger than the parity, as already detailed above.

 

A SATA to IDE converter - very good solution and even cheaper as a temp throw-away solution.

 

Do not FORMAT any drives, do not set a new disk configuration, do not press any "restore" button, do not change any of the other drives or add any other than the one you are installing as the new parity drive.

 

Yes, definately do not do any of those. Set a new configuration = using the initconfig command.

 

Peter

 

You never posted how many IDE drives and what IDE controllers you have so we have no idea how hard it would be to change the motherboard to get more SATA ports. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with any specific DIY hardware, since DIY hardware implies using any hardware that works.

 

Peter

 

Sorry what I meant by the original DIY Hardware is the Hardware that Tom recommended when UnRaid first started:

 

Intel D865GLCLK Motherboard -- http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/D865GLC/sb/CS-008974.htm

Celeron Processor (don't remember the specific speed)

2 Promise 4 port ATA PCI Controllers

Coolermaster Stacker case

Corsair 750W Power Supply (replaced a couple of months ago)

 

I currently have 11 drives:

 

2 - 2TB SATA (1 of these is Parity)

9 - ATA drives ranging from 200 GB - 320 GB

 

It was a 250GB drive that failed.

Another possibility, although a bit of a lash-up, will also work.

 

You can get an SATA to IDE convertor.  At one point I had one on a drive on my older unRAID server.  It allows a new SATA drive to be adapted to an IDE cable.  The adapter is pretty inexpensive.

 

 

I like this idea for a temporary solution to get the drive replaced with a bigger drive.  So if I were to get another 2TB SATA drive the system would recognize the full 2TB even though it's seeing it as ATA?

 

Thanks,

 

Doug

So here's what I'm thinking.  Let me know what you guys think:

 

1)  Buy the adapter recommended by Joe L. and a 2TB SATA drive.

2)  Replace dead 250GB with new 2TB + Adapter

3)  Wait for recovery to complete

4)  Order new parts for upgrade

 

• SUPERMICRO MBD-C2SEA-O -- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182161
  
• Core2Duo E7500 Processor
  
• G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 SDRAM-- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231276
  

 

I picked that board because it seems to be the current board Limetech is using.  I prefer to use something stable I won't have to mess with too much.  If you guys can recommend cheaper alternatives that are reliable in UnRaid I'm all ears.

 

5) Upgrade server with parts

6) Use the PCI Promise Controllers for my remaining ATA drives until they eventually die and are replaced with SATA drives.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Doug

 

Actually for ~$60 more maybe I'll go with:

 

Mobo: SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIL-F-O

CPU:   Intel Core i3

 

And I'll find a cheap PCIe ATA controller to handle my old drives.

 

I wouldn't need to upgrade my hardware for quite a while with this baby...    

I like this idea for a temporary solution to get the drive replaced with a bigger drive.  So if I were to get another 2TB SATA drive the system would recognize the full 2TB even though it's seeing it as ATA?

Correct.  Also, parity will be calculated on the full 2TB, but since all the other drives are much smaller, the part past their physical size will go very quickly. (basically at the read/write speed of the SATA disk itself)

 

Also.. just to be clear, you must swap the two disks, the failed drive and the parity disk.  The new 2TB drive must be assigned as the parity drive and the old parity drive MUST be assigned as the data disk that had failed before the parity-swap process can occur... and evn before that, the disk being replaced must have been marked as disabled (showing as "red" in the web-management interface)

I like this idea for a temporary solution to get the drive replaced with a bigger drive.  So if I were to get another 2TB SATA drive the system would recognize the full 2TB even though it's seeing it as ATA?

Correct.  Also, parity will be calculated on the full 2TB, but since all the other drives are much smaller, the part past their physical size will go very quickly. (basically at the read/write speed of the SATA disk itself)

 

Also.. just to be clear, you must swap the two disks, the failed drive and the parity disk.  The new 2TB drive must be assigned as the parity drive and the old parity drive MUST be assigned as the data disk that had failed before the parity-swap process can occur... and evn before that, the disk being replaced must have been marked as disabled (showing as "red" in the web-management interface)

 

Wait why do I need to mess with my Parity drive?  My parity drive is already a 2TB SATA drive.

Well then you don't. Just replace the drive.

 

Peter

So here's what I'm thinking.  Let me know what you guys think:

 

1)  Buy the adapter recommended by Joe L. and a 2TB SATA drive.

2)  Replace dead 250GB with new 2TB + Adapter

3)  Wait for recovery to complete

4)  Order new parts for upgrade

 

• SUPERMICRO MBD-C2SEA-O -- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182161
  
• Core2Duo E7500 Processor
  
• G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 SDRAM-- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231276
  

 

I picked that board because it seems to be the current board Limetech is using.  I prefer to use something stable I won't have to mess with too much.  If you guys can recommend cheaper alternatives that are reliable in UnRaid I'm all ears.

 

5) Upgrade server with parts

6) Use the PCI Promise Controllers for my remaining ATA drives until they eventually die and are replaced with SATA drives.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Doug

 

 

FYI, Supermicro boards are VERY picky about which RAM they will and won't take.  I doubt that Ripjaws RAM will work with that board.  Use Supermicro's memory picker to find a compatible one, or go to the RAM maker's site and search for RAM that they claim will be compatible with the Supermicro board.

 

 

Actually for ~$60 more maybe I'll go with:

 

Mobo: SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIL-F-O

CPU:  Intel Core i3

 

And I'll find a cheap PCIe ATA controller to handle my old drives.

 

I wouldn't need to upgrade my hardware for quite a while with this baby...   

 

I heartily endorse that combo.  I can confirm that this RAM will work with that board.

 

 

 

I heartily endorse that combo.  I can confirm that this RAM will work with that board.

 

 

Yup, I already replaced the GSkill with this Kingston in my Temporary Wishlist when I saw your build.

 

Thanks for the info!

 

Doug

 

Here is one example http://www.amazon.com/Serial-DVD-ROM-Interface-Convert-Adapter/dp/B002Y2NI4M/ref=pd_cp_e_0

 

 

Turns out this link is for a seller that's in Hong Kong.  It was going to take 17-28 days for shipping. 

 

I found another model from a US seller for a dollar more, so I should be all set.

 

Thanks for the great idea!

 

Doug

I do like your upgrade path.

 

It looks like a solid recovery option and an excellent motherboard.

 

Do remember that SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIL-F-O board has no IDE ports on it.

You will need a PCI or PCIe 1x adapter to move you're IDE drives over.

After you have done that, you can then replace the IDE drives with Sata drives over time.

You will need a PCI or PCIe 1x adapter to move you're IDE drives over.

 

It may well be possible to collect the data from the 9 ide drives, and fit it all on to the new 2TB drive.  This could be performed on the old hardware, negating the need for ide interfaces on the new hardware altogether.  Having said that, many of the ide/sata converters will work in either direction, so it would be possible to move one ide drive onto the new hardware.

After perusing the forums a bit it seems like I have another problem I need to deal with.  My 2TB drives are the EARS drives and I don't have the Jumper installed.  I'm currently running 4.5.6.  This may explain some performance issues I was seeing.  Slow copies and some trouble streaming blurays to my HTPC, it's just enough to make them stutter during playback.  The same files play fine if played locally on the HTPC.

 

I think I know how to resolve the issue after reading through the forum but I just want to make sure I've got it all in the right order.

 

1.  Install the Jumper on my new 2TB EARS drive.

2.  Install the drive with the SATA --> IDE converter and let it rebuild from the failed 250 GB IDE drive.

3.  Run a parity check and make sure there are no errors.

4.  Follow the steps in the wiki to install the jumper on my parity drive (1 of my 2 non-jumpered drives)

5.  Let the array rebuild parity

6.  Run a parity check just to be sure there are no errors

7.  Follow the steps in the wiki to install the jumper on my remaining non-jumpered drive

8.  Let the array rebuild that drive

 

Now I would have my array running 4.5.6 with 3 correctly jumpered 2TB EARS drives.  If I upgrade to the latest version of UnRaid I would leave the jumpers in place and everything should work just fine correct?  No more performance issues?

 

After all that's done then I'll look at upgrading my hardware.

 

 

I would not install the jumpers now. Those disks sometimes act funny when you change the jumper after they have been in use. You might have to run 2 or 3 preclear cycles on them to get them back acting right and they simply might not start working again.

 

Upgrade to 4.7.  Make sure you follow the instructions only replacing the 2 files on the flash drive and rename the old ones just in case.

Install the replacement disk.

Boot-up and change the setting to 4k-aligned.

Click OK and rebuild the disk.

 

Then, just stop the array.

Unassign the disk.

Start the array.

Stop the array.

Clear the MBR of the unassigned disk.

Assign the disk.

Start the array and rebuild.

 

Peter