Controlling of fan speed in a server case backplane?

[casperse]

Hi All

I got myself a new "home-made" "Storinator case" but with bays and it meet my needs a bigger build height for a bigger Air CPU cooler 🙂

Case: S865-48
 

Anyway I am trying to figure out how to control the case fans? (THEY ARE VERY VERY LOUD !!!)
I can see the 3 x 3 fans are connected to each of the two backplanes - 1 and backplane 2 (Yellow circles there are 4 but only 3 are used)

The extra cable pins on the case are listed below:
 

PWR Fail +/-  ?

POWER LED +/- (Power indicator?)

NIC 1LED (Network?)

NIC 2LED (Network?)
HDD LED (Attached to MB)
UID LED OH/FAN Fail +/- ?
ID SW +/-  ?

So far I only have the "Normal" pins below attached to the MB:
POWER SW +/-  --> PWRSW PIN BELOW
POWER LED +/-  --> PLED PIN BELOW
RESET SW +/-  --> RESET PIN BELOW
HDD LED +/-  --> HDD LED PIN BELOW





My MB: ASUS Pro WS W680-ACE IPMI should have plenty of FAN control possibilities.

Or is these server case fans just supposed to run at a 100% speed by design 24/7?
It just looks like the backplane would have some control option for the fans.

DUAL PSU ISSUE:
Also this is my first server with server redundant PSU's 🙂

• Are they supposed to keep running the fans when you turn the server off?
• Even when I cut the power it seems like it shuts down slowly like a inbuilt UPS/Battery?
• Any special cable needed between the PSU and the MB?

Sorry if I am asking stupid questions. I am in new HW territory not 10% servergrade HW - I am still building with new HW so its a mix.
And yes this can cause problems I know.

But thanks to Unraid and all the great people here I decided to go for it 🙂
(I selected the MB from the comments about it in this forum 🙂)
 

I have attached the Backplane data sheet PDF below:
24bays 12Gb Expander Specs V1 0 - MC.pdf

[Vr2Io]

1 hour ago, casperse said:

Anyway I am trying to figure out how to control the case fans? (THEY ARE VERY VERY LOUD !!!)

 

Those sever fan may draw 1.5A to 3A, don't direct plug to mobo.

For me, I use PWM fan ( 4 wire , but most bundle server fan won't be PWM type ) and split the TACH & PWM ( speed control ) to one of mobo fan harder ( 2 wire ). The power draw ( molex ) was direct connect to PSU. So, speed adjust will sync to all 4 fan.

 

Below are the sample what does those spliter looklike.

 

 

Edited January 6 by Vr2Io

[casperse]

13 hours ago, Vr2Io said:

 

Those sever fan may draw 1.5A to 3A, don't direct plug to mobo.

For me, I use PWM fan ( 4 wire , but most bundle server fan won't be PWM type ) and split the TACH & PWM ( speed control ) to one of mobo fan harder ( 2 wire ). The power draw ( molex ) was direct connect to PSU. So, speed adjust will sync to all 4 fan.

 

Below are the sample what does those spliter looklike.

 

 

Excellent I can see that all my fans is with the above 4 wires:


Looks like they are glued to the backplane:


I was just hooping that I could control the speed by one of the wires on the backplane, but I guess not.
UPDATE: Found one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003951908311.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.373a38daAnMrdk&mp=1
Thanks!
 

Edited January 7 by casperse

[Vr2Io]

Great, those are PWM fan, any spec. photo could share ?

Edited January 7 by Vr2Io

[casperse]

On 1/7/2024 at 5:11 PM, Vr2Io said:

Great, those are PWM fan, any spec. photo could share ?

I will try to take a picture of the Fan when I get home (Should be some sticker with data on them)
I might end up swapping them all with Noctua fans like many others....

Just got a strange message from the vendor, claiming that I should be able to control all fans by a cable between the backplane and the MB using the CHA_FAN pin?
But I know that each fan can do 3 amps and I have 6 of them, wouldn't feel comfortable trying that.

They say to use the third empty fan connector. That would requires a IOT Grove cable - with a 4 pin male to 4 pin male not exactly a standard cable!


 

[Vr2Io]

20 minutes ago, casperse said:

I will try to take a picture of the Fan when I get home (Should be some sticker with data on them)

I enlarge the photo, confirm it is 3A, pls don't direct plug to mobo.

 

 

20 minutes ago, casperse said:

Just got a strange message from the vendor, claiming that I should be able to control all fans by a cable between the backplane and the MB using the CHA_FAN pin?

It is possible if backplane / fan controller support connect to mobo fan header to take control. For external or 3rd party fan controller, this usually won't support high power fan.

 

20 minutes ago, casperse said:

I might end up swapping them all with Noctua fans like many others....

Need consider air flow / pressure will drop a lot even Noctua Industrial type.
 

 

Edited January 9 by Vr2Io

[casperse]

20 hours ago, Vr2Io said:

I enlarge the photo, confirm it is 3A, pls don't direct plug to mobo.

 

 

It is possible if backplane / fan controller support connect to mobo fan header to take control. For external or 3rd party fan controller, this usually won't support high power fan.

 

Need consider air flow / pressure will drop a lot even Noctua Industrial type.
 

 

Thanks! - Yes its 3A, I think my contact is a sales rep. so no I dont think there is any way to control the fans from backplane to MB 😞
I got message that even at 30% load the fans will be LOUD! so even if I already ordered 5 of the fan controllers (for other different PC's) I dont think that will have enough impact.
So I think I need to go the Noctua way: NF-F12 industrialPPC-2000 PWM - https://noctua.at/en/nf-f12-industrialppc-2000-pwm/specification

These is so far the best I have ben able to find (2000rpm and highest pressure)
Do you have alternative fans to recommend? 

[Vr2Io]

4 hours ago, casperse said:

I got message that even at 30% load the fans will be LOUD!

I think so, I test that too. I replace those fan with some cheap PWM fan, currently have over temp issue,. but my rack not 7x24. ( FAN max in 1200rpm )

 

4 hours ago, casperse said:

Do you have alternative fans to recommend?

I will prefer replacement in around 3000rpm fan, Noctua or SILENT WINGS PRO 4 should be my first choice.

 

One of problem you need to be address, those fan thinner then bundle fan, so if fan mount to the housing, then a big gap with exist between the fan and fan plate, you may need mount the fan to the plate for better performance.

 

 https://www.bequiet.com/en/casefans/3705 ( it have speed switch, I think it would have large speed rang adjustment )

 

Edited January 10 by Vr2Io

[casperse]

Thanks @Vr2Io

Quote

think so, I test that too. I replace those fan with some cheap PWM fan, currently have over temp issue,. but my rack not 7x24. ( FAN max in 1200rpm )

I will prefer replacement in around 3000rpm fan, Noctua or SILENT WINGS PRO 4 should be my first choice.

I haven't found industri server fans from Noctua above the 2000rpm.
Comparing the Noctua to the SILENT WINGS PRO 4 (There is literally almost no $ price difference between them!)

rpm and Airflow & dB spring to mind. I think we are missing the static pressure?
Noctua 2K:  3,94 mm H₂O
Noctua 3K:  7,63 mm H₂O
Wings 4:      5,31  mm H₂O

Quote

One of problem you need to be address, those fan thinner then bundle fan, so if fan mount to the housing, then a big gap with exist between the fan and fan plate, you may need mount the fan to the plate for better performance.

Yes the mounting is very thick, I think I can secure them in the "fan dock" anyway, adhesive 3M tape? or the tight fit would be enough?

Correction I actually found two NF12 3000 PWM from my old upgrade fan Synology project even at low speed they moved allot of air in a very small case.
https://noctua.at/en/nf-f12-industrialppc-3000-pwm/specification
I think these fans with the Fan controller you showed me would resolve the problem and keep the server cool & keep power level down 24/7

 

Quote

 https://www.bequiet.com/en/casefans/3705 ( it have speed switch, I think it would have large speed rang adjustment )

 

[Vr2Io]

22 hours ago, casperse said:

rpm and Airflow & dB spring to mind. I think we are missing the static pressure?
Noctua 2K:  3,94 mm H₂O
Noctua 3K:  7,63 mm H₂O
Wings 4:      5,31  mm H₂O

Umm ..... I don't think Wing 4 will be such large different ( too good to be true ), I browse different YT review also not found such outcome.

 

Below YT test said PPC3000 should be around 134.1 CFM and 5.664 mm H₂O.

 

22 hours ago, casperse said:

I think we are missing the static pressure?

Pressure really importance, airflow seriously block in a rack when insert all harddisk, we need strong pressure to push out air. ( That's also why I point out the gap between fan and fan plate. )

 

Below YT have review Lian Li P28 ( have PPC3000 ) , it seems quite good for restricted airflow situation, cheaper a lot (2/3 price) and have 3 speed range too. I really have some interest !!!

https://www.youtube.com/embed/AeOvOeTbCrA?si=Jdo4OGZTbX36Yc7d&start=405

 

 

22 hours ago, casperse said:

adhesive 3M tape? or the tight fit would be enough?

There have three side for housing contact with fan, all three side with 3M tape ? This seems some difficult . For me, I prefer drill mount hole in fan plate if haven't. 

 

Edited January 12 by Vr2Io

[Vr2Io]

Any progress in your build ?

 

I make some modify to mount the fan on plastic mount outside, as result, the fan now more close to the blackplane. The aim were make more air pressure to push more air out ( pls note I reverse the airflow direction from rear to front ) , btw the test got positive result.

 

 

So I have order 3 Arctic P12 Max to replace Arctic F12, the noise level have double, but I can adjust its speed by PWM, I would expect 50%-60% of P12 Max will be same as F12 (100%), after that I can cool more if I accept more noise.

 

P12 Max really cheap.

 

Edited January 21 by Vr2Io

[casperse]

On 1/21/2024 at 5:01 AM, Vr2Io said:

Any progress in your build ?

 

Hi Vr2Io

Sorry for the late reply I have ben waiting for new cables and also the fan controller "HUBs"
I wasn't happy with the control of the all fans on one MB Fan controller "HUB".
Sound before getting FAN controlling away from the backplane WAS LOUD !!!

 

 

After getting the power cable for the IPMI controller I now have all 8 fans connected to the controller.

6 big 120 (RED cables) - Picture above) and 2 x Noctua (Black cables) NF-A8 PWM, above 8 in total.
The CPU fan is on the MB and set to 100% because its Noctua low noise.

 

I have set the curve to 100% for the silent 80mm fans and for the "Turbine" ones to the lowest setting 20%

Also the CPU temp is controlling the 6 x 120mm fans so keeping that under 30C is keeping them at 20%

I did try the Server enterprise fans from Noctua (NF12 3000 PWM), but even at 100% they didn't manage to keep things cool.
So best to keep the high pressure fans even if they are loud and draws more power, they get the job done!
Its pretty cold outside now, but summertime will be interesting, I dont have any Aircondition room for my home server 🙂

[Vr2Io]

On 2/10/2024 at 6:59 PM, casperse said:

I wasn't happy with the control of the all fans on one MB Fan controller "HUB".
Sound before getting FAN controlling away from the backplane WAS LOUD !!!

Note, but I haven't similar problem show in the video, fan have several time ramp up & down.

Mine only ramp to 100% during booting in several sec. ( I exclude the CPU sensor, because it shouldn't a good source to determine the fan PWM ) 

 

On 2/10/2024 at 6:59 PM, casperse said:

So best to keep the high pressure fans even if they are loud and draws more power, they get the job done!

I bet the bundle fan max at 5000+rpm, thats fine because you can control those through IPMI. That also why I perfer 3000rpm fan in previous. ( i.e. P12 Max )

 

Edited February 12 by Vr2Io

[casperse]

On 2/12/2024 at 6:15 PM, Vr2Io said:

Note, but I haven't similar problem show in the video, fan have several time ramp up & down.

Mine only ramp to 100% during booting in several sec. ( I exclude the CPU sensor, because it shouldn't a good source to determine the fan PWM ) 

 

I bet the bundle fan max at 5000+rpm, thats fine because you can control those through IPMI. That also why I perfer 3000rpm fan in previous. ( i.e. P12 Max )

 

Yes the ramp-up is because (See the graph above) I have set ramp-up at 30C for the CPU, so every time it went above the fans would go to 30% and the CPU would go below 30C and ramp down to 20%. I have to test and see what temperature I get under load, in order to make it more "stable". (To be honest I was just working with all the settings and cables and was getting CRAZY over the noise level (I have no drives in the case yet!)

I also ended up buying a Noctua NF-A4x10 12V PWM - 40mm - This is a great fan for my HBA card (I wasn't aware how hot this thing was!)

This is a great small and silent fan compared to the case fans 🙂

The great thing is that with all these case fans, I can really ramp-up and cool everything quickly! - I like having the power to do extra cooling during summer time.

(I do have a A++ portable air-conditioning unit, but the Electric bill would be high!, so loud fans is better) 

Do you know of any TEMP probes to buy? - I can see that the IPMI refers to these Sensors being attached to the board but I would need to buy one?
Also the MB temp sensors is working but for some reason I cannot use it in the IPMI setup when controlling the fans (Very strange!). 

Edited February 14 by casperse

[Vr2Io]

15 hours ago, casperse said:

Do you know of any TEMP probes to buy?

Not sure what type, but you can try use a 10K resistor ( should got 25C reading ) or real 10K NTC.

 

You can search "ntc 10k 3950" at Amazon to found. Beta value 39XX should be most commonly used.

 

https://www.ametherm.com/thermistor/ntc-thermistor-beta