March 7, 201313 yr Hello, I've been lurking in these forums for some time, in an effort to get the measure of the sort of challenges I'd face if I took the plunge into unRAID. I hope it won't try people's patience if I air some concerns about that prospect. I'm frequently over-awed by the - to me unimaginable - ambitiousness (both of storage-size and technical sophistication) at which many posters are aiming, but also I'm continually impressed by the patience shown (despite this) to newbies and am confident that I'll be afforded that too. That's not what worries me: I'll set out below what does. But first just a minimum of context. My need (which it appears to me could be met admirably by unRAID) is - within only a very limited budget - for a NAS of modest but flexible size (say, 2TB max to start with) with built-in redundancy, as the repository for my multimedia material. I'm in the early stages of digitising a collection of VHS tapes (mostly of broadcast films - sorry. movies!) and in addition I want to preserve (after editing/encoding) about 360 GB of recorded DVB-T broadcast movies, all either .mpg or .ts. I'm still dithering over whether to end-up with folders or .iso's but inclining towards folders, encoded as mp4. The goal is to serve video over my home (wired) network to (probably) only two TVs (one - not yet acquired - to be of the "smart" variety), but also to have the NAS function as the storage location for all my future recordings of broadcast video. So the storage requirement is set to grow gradually over time, starting from very modest beginnings. (Btw, HD transmissions are still only in their introductory stage where I live). I'm running (dual-booted) XP Home-sp3 32-bit alongside Windows 8 64-bit with Windows Media Center (but haven't yet got far into Win8). I can't see WMC being readily used in conjunction with unRAID: to me it seems to have been designed for a different purpose than that I've set out above. Am I right? On that assumption, I'm trying to gain insight into how other media servers would operate, among them Twonky and Plex - both of which figure in these forums, with a lot of posts and guidance. I've been grapplng with that, but am so far finding it heavy going (due to my own complete lack of familiarity with the whole mullarkey of serving media over networks). My main (workstation) PC has an Asus P8Z68V-LX mainboard, Pentium G620 dual-core GPU @ 2.6 GHz, 4 GB DDR3 RAM, and adequate HD capacity. One other thing I must mention is that I've already been experimenting intermittently with unRAID (to date only ver 4.7 - would plan to upgrade to 5.0 if I go ahead for real) to get the feel of it, and for that purpose have set-up a box (a retired workstation PC) equipped with a parity drive (320 GB SATA2), plus as the only data disk one - very rickety, but still working last time I checked - 80GB IDE HD. I've installed unMENU and some other software on the usb flash-drive. So I am "in business" after a fashion, but only tentatively - still standing at the pool's edge and worrying that if I jump in I might drown. Which brings me to the worries. I'm a MS junkie, by which I mean that all attempts to rid myself of that dependency having failed I've become reconciled to it. Linux is not for me, because every time within seconds of starting I find myself up against an unavoidable need to deploy an arsenal of forever (to me) incomprehensible commands - for each one of which there are at least ten other alternatives each one more arcane than the last. I've tried - honestly I have - but sadly have had to admit defeat each time. I've read Lime's disclaimer (repeated in the unRAID wiki FAQ) that there's absolutely no need for an unRAID user ever to use Linux but, with all due respect, I disagree. Given that the server's os is Linux it's impossible to interact with it (other than at a frustratingly superficial level) without having pretty soon to resort to the command-line and then - bang! before you know it you're enmeshed in Linux mumbo-jumbo. As an example: the posts and guidance I've alluded to about installing/operating either Twonky or Plex on an unRAID server. They are rife with references to Linux code. How is a Linux illiterate like me ever going to get a handle on that? Sorry, but that's how I see it. Is anyone prepared to talk me out of it? (I do have other worries but they pale into insignificance compared with this one, so I won't introduce any of them now).
March 7, 201313 yr Store it as an iso if you want to use plex or something of the like. I'm pretty sure plex supports isos and not folders (Don't quote me on that). EDIT 2 (Toldya):- Use plex instead of windows media center? EDIT 3:- Plex works by having one "Server" (In most of our cases, on our unraid box) which has all of the files, when a client (TV/PC/HTPC/etc) wants to watch something it requests it from the server and the server streams the data to the client. It's extremely useful for people who have HTPCs with ~ 20GB worth of storage, or people who like to use their tablets in bed but (obviously) can't store terabytes upon terabytes of data on it. EDIT 4:- Yes, obviously you'll have to do some maintenance in the terminal, but, once you have it set up you'll never need to touch it again unless you do something to it (add new drive/drive fails/etc). EDIT 5:- Installing plex is as easy as creating a new folder, copying a file to it (Using windows!) and then modifying one text file, which I'm pretty sure also can be done in windows:- #Wait until array is started until `cat /proc/mdcmd 2>/dev/null | grep -q -a "STARTED" ` ; do echo ">>>waiting..." ; sleep 1 ; done ; echo ">>>STARTED." #Install plex installpkg /boot/extras/PlexMediaServer*.txz #Wait a bit, plex is a bit buggy sleep 30s #Launch plex /etc/rc.d/rc.plexmediaserver start Under \\tower\flash\config\go. Also, to anyone else (not OP) I know that sleep 30s is a dodgy command, but, I was having issues before it and now I've had no issues, so, I'm keeping it. Basically, the outcome I feel is:- It's extremely basic, and, even if you find issues then people are always willing to help (Not just here, but, any linux/computer forums!), however, if you're not even willing to attempt to try, then I doubt unraid is for you. Synology has a 100% UI friendly model, I think.
March 7, 201313 yr How did you come to the conclusion of "I can't see WMC being readily used in conjunction with unRAID"??
March 7, 201313 yr How did you come to the conclusion of "I can't see WMC being readily used in conjunction with unRAID"?? No idea, but my question is:- "What's wrong with Plex? Leave Plex alone! :'("
March 7, 201313 yr The plugin system in unRAID 5 is already quite good and by that I mean that there are quite a few plugins that make the command line less needed. Plex, for example, can be installed fully without the need for using the command line. just copy the package and plugin in the correct folders on your flash drive (using windows) and restart the server.
March 7, 201313 yr I've read Lime's disclaimer (repeated in the unRAID wiki FAQ) that there's absolutely no need for an unRAID user ever to use Linux but, with all due respect, I disagree. Given that the server's os is Linux it's impossible to interact with it (other than at a frustratingly superficial level) without having pretty soon to resort to the command-line and then - bang! before you know it you're enmeshed in Linux mumbo-jumbo. As an example: the posts and guidance I've alluded to about installing/operating either Twonky or Plex on an unRAID server. They are rife with references to Linux code. How is a Linux illiterate like me ever going to get a handle on that? For unRaid itself, using the command line is fairly rare. Preclearing drives is one of the few things I have to use the console for, and even that is technically an optional step. For simply serving up media, you can just use the web interface. If you want to run other applications, then you will need to interact with the OS a little more. I would definitely upgrade to the latest 5.0 RC from 4.7 and test out the applications you want. You should be able to get a good idea of whether it will work for you just using the free version of unRaid.
March 7, 201313 yr How did you come to the conclusion of "I can't see WMC being readily used in conjunction with unRAID"?? No idea, but my question is:- "What's wrong with Plex? Leave Plex alone! :'(" My question was directed at the OP. That being said, Plex is NOT required for WMC accessing a NAS. In fact, its complicating matters. I have four dedicated HTPCs all running Windows Media Center that get 90% of their content directly from my unRAID box, with no conversion/encoding in between.
March 7, 201313 yr I'm just using my NAS as a pure NAS. 3x3tb in a N40L with a usb stick. v5rc8 free version. + cache_dirs ( to stop disk spin up ) + SimpleFeature for web prettyness 3 days to preclear the drives. Simple easy commands on the wiki, and the only time for command line. Create some user shares ( Movies/tv/photo/books ). Network map the user shares in windows using standard explorer. Copy the data to its new location using explorer. All done. Free version lets you have 2 data+1 parity, and the only downside is that you can't limit access to the user shares. Mine has 3 wdtvs, and 5 computers using its shares, and not blinked in its first 3 months.
March 7, 201313 yr How did you come to the conclusion of "I can't see WMC being readily used in conjunction with unRAID"?? No idea, but my question is:- "What's wrong with Plex? Leave Plex alone! :'(" My question was directed at the OP. That being said, Plex is NOT required for WMC accessing a NAS. In fact, its complicating matters. I have four dedicated HTPCs all running Windows Media Center that get 90% of their content directly from my unRAID box, with no conversion/encoding in between. I have two HTPCs, and two devices that aren't dedicated to HTPC but still use plex (My desktop & Ipad), none of them convert/encode between my server and the device. Enable "Direct play" and it (if possible) skips any encoding.
March 8, 201313 yr The only comment I'll make is that you'd better be capable of understanding and running some command lines if you want to be successful in recovering from a bad failure situation.
March 8, 201313 yr Author How did you come to the conclusion of "I can't see WMC being readily used in conjunction with unRAID"?? Only on the basis of a very incomplete understanding (which is all I've so far acquired - having hitherto been completely unacquainted with WMC in any of its manifestations) of WMP. Having bought Win8 at the special price, and being then offered WMC free I accepted the offer (why not) and am in the process of trying to understand how I might best use WMC. So it wasn't really a "conclusion", just a passing observation. I'm entirely open to, and appreciative of, being educated
March 8, 201313 yr It very much depends on what you do with the system. When you use it for its basic function, possibly adding a plugin or two and then stop touchint it you will need to use console commands extremely rarely. However if you update stuff, add plugins, remove them, and in other ways enhance your system you will find yourself doing console actions more and more.. For a lot of people to sheer possibility of the system has created needs that were not there before, this might happen to you. There are also a lot of users who have placed their box in the basement and have forgotten there is actually something running serving their files.. So its all up to the usage..
March 8, 201313 yr Author My question was directed at the OP. That being said, Plex is NOT required for WMC accessing a NAS. In fact, its complicating matters. I have four dedicated HTPCs all running Windows Media Center that get 90% of their content directly from my unRAID box, with no conversion/encoding in between. I find that extremely interesting, since I'm attracted to the possibility of just using WMC - in harness with unRAID - rather than using any other media servers like Plex. For the sake of maximum simplicity matching what is, after all, the simplest of needs. But why "dedicated HTPCs"? In my setup will be only a single workcentre (work-horse?) PC, and although there could continue to be a single HTPC (which is already in place elsewhere on my home network) I would ideally like to dispense with that, either by relying solely on WMC to push and a smart TV to push and pull media files from the unRAID NAS - if all that is possible - OR by replacing my HTPC with a media player like (for instance) the WD TV play.
March 8, 201313 yr Author I'm just using my NAS as a pure NAS. 3x3tb in a N40L with a usb stick. v5rc8 free version. + cache_dirs ( to stop disk spin up ) + SimpleFeature for web prettyness 3 days to preclear the drives. Simple easy commands on the wiki, and the only time for command line. Create some user shares ( Movies/tv/photo/books ). Network map the user shares in windows using standard explorer. Copy the data to its new location using explorer. All done. Free version lets you have 2 data+1 parity, and the only downside is that you can't limit access to the user shares. Mine has 3 wdtvs, and 5 computers using its shares, and not blinked in its first 3 months. I find your account very persuasive - not that other responses aren't, btw What are "wdtvs"? (just curious)
March 8, 201313 yr Author The only comment I'll make is that you'd better be capable of understanding and running some command lines if you want to be successful in recovering from a bad failure situation. Yes. I was (as I hope was evident) exaggerating my haplessness with Linux to some extent so as to keep the tone light. I may have overdone the self-deprecation I have in fact in the past managed to progress a little way into the Linux forest but I never got far before darkness closed-in and the goblins started to trip me up - and then I beat a hasty retreat. I might, just about, manage by copying-and-pasting the code which forum members seem always willing to provide, along with helpful guidance, to extract myself from a bad failure situation. Then again, I might not
March 8, 201313 yr Author How did you come to the conclusion of "I can't see WMC being readily used in conjunction with unRAID"?? I'm entirely open to, and appreciative of, being educated StevenD Just to add to that:- I set up WMC starting-from the assumption that I'd be able to have it record liveTV broadcasts on the NAS I'm currently using (a Lacie NetworkSpace2) - exactly as I'm currently able to do with my DVB-T player software app (DVBViewer). However, I soon found that WMC refused to acknowledge the existence, on my network, of the NetworkSpace2 and accordingly denied me the possibility of configuring that NAS as a storage location. So far I've not discovered a way round this although I assume one must exist. Meanwhile I assumed that whatever was stopping the NS2 being recognised by WMC would also stop an unRAID server-box.
March 8, 201313 yr Remember the basics You said "... My need (which it appears to me could be met admirably by unRAID) is - within only a very limited budget - for a NAS of modest but flexible size (say, 2TB max to start with) with built-in redundancy, as the repository for my multimedia material. " ==> So USE UnRAID for exactly that ... the repository of your material. No need to add a server add-in, you can simply pull the media files from UnRAID using WMC; WDTV ["Western Digital TV" -- e.g. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/homeentertainment/mediaplayers/ ]; or VLC. You've already got the basic system running -- just replace your disks with 3 larger drives and use the free version until you need more space. An older system likely doesn't support 3TB drives, but you could pop in 3 2TB drives for less than $300 and have 4TB of fault-tolerant storage for your media.
March 8, 201313 yr What are "wdtvs"? (just curious) WD TV HD Media Players. Just sharing the wireless network, and the nas user shares.
March 8, 201313 yr Note: Your idea of using the UnRAID server as a storage destination for recording live TV broadcasts is not a good idea. Writing to the array is a relatively slow process, as each write requires 4 disk operations (2 reads, 2 writes) to maintain parity. I'd use a local disk for storing your recordings; then copy them to UnRAID after the fact. If you want to skip that step, you should buy a Plus license and add a cache drive. Then you could write directly to a "Recordings" share, and the writes would be at max disk speed (assuming a gigabit network), since they'd go to the cache (and be automatically transferred to the protected array later).
March 8, 201313 yr Using the cache drive will make it the best "i do not want to worry about it" system.. Ofcourse it will require a license... But if you like the system I would expect you to get one anyhow.
March 8, 201313 yr How did you come to the conclusion of "I can't see WMC being readily used in conjunction with unRAID"?? I'm entirely open to, and appreciative of, being educated StevenD Just to add to that:- I set up WMC starting-from the assumption that I'd be able to have it record liveTV broadcasts on the NAS I'm currently using (a Lacie NetworkSpace2) - exactly as I'm currently able to do with my DVB-T player software app (DVBViewer). However, I soon found that WMC refused to acknowledge the existence, on my network, of the NetworkSpace2 and accordingly denied me the possibility of configuring that NAS as a storage location. So far I've not discovered a way round this although I assume one must exist. Meanwhile I assumed that whatever was stopping the NS2 being recognised by WMC would also stop an unRAID server-box. A quick google search will tell you how to get around this. There are two methods. I prefer #2. 1) Change this registry key. This will allow you to record directly to unRAID. [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrentVersion\\Media Center\\Service\\Recording] "RecordPath"="\\\\NAS\Recorded tv" 2) Record on local hard drive, then copy to unRAID. Setup this scheduled task on each HTPC. http://www.number8wire.com/richardsblog/fun/move-media-center-recordings-to-the-network/
March 8, 201313 yr Note: Your idea of using the UnRAID server as a storage destination for recording live TV broadcasts is not a good idea. Writing to the array is a relatively slow process, as each write requires 4 disk operations (2 reads, 2 writes) to maintain parity. I'd use a local disk for storing your recordings; then copy them to UnRAID after the fact. If you want to skip that step, you should buy a Plus license and add a cache drive. Then you could write directly to a "Recordings" share, and the writes would be at max disk speed (assuming a gigabit network), since they'd go to the cache (and be automatically transferred to the protected array later). See my previous post. This is why I prefer option #2.
March 8, 201313 yr Author TO ALL POSTERS I got just the response I'd been hoping-for, thoroughly in tune with this forum's exceptional helpfulness. Many thanks! I'll now spend some time pondering afresh, in the light of all the comments (and continuing to try to raise my level of knowledge of the basics in general). Doubtless I'll be back with more - I hope less dumb - questions.
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.