Advice for a new build

[butlerpeter]

Hi guys,

 

currently my unRAID server is a HP N40L MicroServer, with 6 drives installed internally (4TB parity, 2x 3TB and 2x 1.5TB data drives and a 250GB cache drive) connected to a Hornettek Enterprise 4x e-SATA external enclosure which contains an additional 4TB data drive. I've recently fitted 8GB of Kingston ECC memory.

 

I'm contemplating building something with a little more cpu power, and to save costs am thinking of cannibalising my current desktop tower pc, which doesn't get much use these days, and repurposing the newly added memory from the N40L.

 

My desktop is in a CoolerMaster Centurion case, which I think will do for a start. There's room for at least one 4 or 5 bay drive cage, plus room for internal drives.

 

It has a Corsair HX520 power supply from about 5 years ago (been a while since I updated my pc!) and is running a Core2Duo E6700, with 4GB RAM on an Asus P5KC motherboard.

 

The only things I'm thinking of keeping from the current pc are the case and power supply. Although having seen recommendations that unRAID power supplies are single rail and stuff I'm not sure if it is really suitable. An old product page for it is http://www.corsair.com/en/hx520w which says it's triple rail.

 

As a minimum I want to recreate my current setup, 6 drives in the case with external enclosure attached, and to save a bit of cost I'd like to reuse the RAM from the N40L.

 

With unRAID 6 on the horizon I'd like a setup that supports virtualization, I'm never likely to run loads of VM,s but maybe 1 or 2.

 

I'm thinking of going for a Haswell quad core I5 processor a 4440 was one that I looked at. But I have no idea when it comes to motherboards. To be able to connect all of my internal drives I need one with at least 6 SATA connectors, plus I need one that supports the ECC memory that I have in the MicroServer.

 

Does anybody have any suggestions/thoughts on a processor/motherboard combo that would tick these boxes?

Also any comments on the power supply? Is it suitable, if not any recommendations for another?

 

Thanks

 

Peter

[Ford Prefect]

..tell us what memory modules excactly are in that Microserver of yours?

Might as well be, that matching them in a 1150 server might not be a best fit.

[butlerpeter]

The RAM is this kit http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002T3JN0Y/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I did also have a brief look at using a Xeon processor, as I thought that might be more likely to support the ECC RAM. Forgive me, I've not really been keeping up to date on processors and have only done a little bit of research so far, but I think the Xeon I was looking at was a v3 1225 - does that sound right?

 

It was similar in spec to the I5.

[Ford Prefect]

These modules are KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G, DDR3-1333, CL9, ECC-UDIMM.

They will work fine with all 1155 and 1150 socket server plattforms, although the

newer 1150 (and higher 1155) can make use of faster DDR3-1600 memory modules (while standard being

1600-CL11, which is *not* noticeable faster than the 1333-CL9).

 

That XEON will work fine with that memory.

If you don't need vt-d, also a Celeron, PentiumG and i3 will work with ECC memory in a server chipset.

I'd look into the Supermicro X9SCM-F or -iiF models for socket 1155 , or the X10SL7-F on S-1150.

IMHO the X10SL7-F is the sweet spot, as it comes with an additional controller with 8 ports already.

All the -F models from supermicrpo have IPMI and a small GPU on-board.

Hence you don't need a 12x5 model when going XEON, as you don't need the embedded IGP.

At some point in future one - maybe - can make use of it with passthough to a VM, but IMHO it is not a must.

 

[garycase]

You'll need a server-class Socket 1150 motherboard to get ECC memory support.

 

This would be a good choice:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182831

 

... you can pair it with one of the Core i3 or Core i5 units that support ECC (check carefully ... only a few of these CPUs support ECC => for example a Core i5-4400E supports ECC, but a Core i5-4400 does not ... the "E" suffix is necessary for ECC support).    A Xeon is probably a better choice.  The E3-1225v3 you were looking at is a good choice.

 

[garycase]

As Ford Prefect noted, if you use a board with IPMI you won't need an embedded graphics chip, so you could use an E3-1220v3 instead of the 1225.    Personally, I'd spring for the ..5 model, just to have the HD graphics [never know when you might want to use it  ] ... but it isn't needed for UnRAID use if the board has IPMI.

 

 

[butlerpeter]

Thanks guys.

 

What about the power supply? Suitable or not, with those boards and cpus you've suggested?

[Ford Prefect]

...AFAIU that PSU is a triple-rail model....with 18A it is good for about 5-8 disks with 2A each on that one rail that will most likely hold the power connectors for drives.

With a single rail model at the same wattage, you could easily drive 16+ disks.

Check the seasonic S12G @ 550W as an example: http://www.seasonicusa.com/S12G.htm

[garycase]

Agree r.e. the power supply.  It's fine for what you're proposing to start off with; but as your drive complement grows, a single-rail unit would be a better choice.  Otherwise, you'll have to carefully spread the load among your rails.

 

[butlerpeter]

Thanks again guys,

 

Have had a brief look at the boards suggested and like what I see, although I see that one of them (can't remember which) has SAS2 ports instead of SATA. From research I believe that SAS is backwards compatible with SATA so I could just plug my SATA disks in with no worries.

 

Is that right? Would I need any special cabling or anything?

 

Current thinking now is the Xeon - spec wise it looks pretty similar to the i5 and the price is about the same. The motherboard will likely be more expensive than one for an i5, but then I can offset that cost by being able to re-use the RAM I have already.

 

Will probably go for a new PSU as well. To save any concerns or messing about later.

 

Now to have a closer look at the motherboards and look at some drive cages and see what the total cost will be. Also got to try and find suppliers in the UK.

 

Thanks again for the advice, much appreciated.

[garycase]

Yes, you can use SATA drives with a SAS controller (the opposite is not true).

 

[butlerpeter]

Done a bit of research and now I'm thinking of going for:

 

Supermicro X10SL7-F motherboard

Xeon v3-1225 processor

Seasonic M12II-520 PSU

 

XCase 5x3 drive cage

XCase 3x2 drive cage

 

That would give me 8 drive cage bays in my current case, all of which could be driven from the 8 SAS2 ports on the motherboard. Although I might be tempted to mount the cache and parity drives internally, driven by the 2 6Gbps SATA ports on the motherboard and keep the cage bays for data drives.

 

So I could host my current drives and have room for expansion. Could also mount my current SATA/eSATA addon card (PEXSATA24E) in the x4 slot to maintain connectivity to my external enclosure for further expansion. That would also add a couple more SATA 3Gbps ports.

 

I'd even have the ability to, in the future, upgrade to a larger case with room for more drives, and add a SAS2LP card in the x8 slot to allow for more drives.

 

That seems like a pretty good way of building a system that can be evolved over time to get near to the 24 drive limit, if I end up using the 3Gbps SATA ports as well.

 

[PeterB]

Done a bit of research and now I'm thinking of going for:

 

Supermicro X10SL7-F motherboard

Xeon v3-1225 processor ....

 

 

The 1225 cpu includes a graphics processor which won't, and can't, be used by the Supermicro mobo. Save some cash and go for the 1220, or spend a little more on a 1230, which adds hyperthreading which will add a little bit of flexibility when configuring VMs.

[garycase]

Agree with PeterB r.e. buying a CPU without the on-chip graphics.    Looking at the motherboard tech specs, the onboard video is integrated with the BMC, so it's not going to be supplanted by on-chip graphics anyway => so either get the 1220v3 or a higher-end version (e.g. 1230v3) without embedded graphics.

 

[butlerpeter]

Point taken - will probably go for the 1230 instead.

 

Finding stock of everything seems to be a stumbling block, can't find anywhere in the UK that has stock at the minute. But I'm in no great rush, now I know what I want I can keep an eye out.

 

By the time I get around to buying it I'll probably have talked myself into going the whole hog and getting a new case as well lol

[Ford Prefect]

Done a bit of research and now I'm thinking of going for:

 

Supermicro X10SL7-F motherboard

Xeon v3-1225 processor

Seasonic M12II-520 PSU

 

XCase 5x3 drive cage

XCase 3x2 drive cage

 

 

According to this http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=27800.msg291814#msg291814 there has been an issue reported with a similar. AFAIU non-modular, PSU model.

I recall that with the X9 series of boards SM introduced a requirement for PSUs to be SSI compliant...don't know if this still holds true for the X10 models.

Also, AFAIR, all seasonic with an 12V-EPS connector are SSI compliant...so I don't know why the S12II or M12II PSU would not work, but the threads states otherwise.

Maybe in order to be on the safe side, call SM support and file a question there.

[garycase]

Good catch.  Many of the lower-cost power supplies (from everyone -- Seasonic, Corsair, etc.) are NOT compliant with the Haswell requirements.

 

Note this from the specs for the M12II-520:  "Haswell Support  -  No "

 

Get a Seasonic G or X series or a Corsair HX series and you'll be fine.  This would be a good choice:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151119

 

[PeterB]

Finding stock of everything seems to be a stumbling block, can't find anywhere in the UK that has stock at the minute.

 

Haha ... you have it easy!  All the 'specialist' stuff is virtually unobtainable here in Philippines.  Worse is that DABS, Scan etc won't ship overseas (not even that popular US-based retailer - oh, Newegg) so I have to obtain my parts from Amazon and other companies who will ship.  A small downside of emigrating from UK!

 

Thankfully. RS have a presence here (so I can obtain the Raspberry Pi, etc) but none of this 'next morning' delivery.  It usually takes around two weeks!

[garycase]

It's indeed easy to lose sight of just how good we have it in the U.S. from a logistical perspective.    I lived in Europe for 5 years, and it was VERY different than the US in terms of finding specialty electronic items, and even service for products that weren't made in Europe.  I'd assume it's a lot better these days (25 years later) ... but still not as simple as it is here.  Newegg can certainly spoil you for both product availability and very quick delivery.  (plus very good customer service)

 

 

[butlerpeter]

You know I didn't even realise that Haswell needed specific PSU support.

 

As it is I now realise the one I'd listed wasn't the one that was suggested - must have followed a wrong link somewhere and not noticed - they both had 12 in the model number

 

Another question regarding cpu cooler - never having bought a server grade processor like a Xeon, does it come with a cooler in the same way that consumer grade ones do?

 

If it does - is the cooler up to the job, or will I need to spec something better?

 

The machine doesn't live in  family room or anything so I'm not too worried about absolute silence, but I don't want it to be like a jet engine either.

[garycase]

Yes, it comes with a heatsink; and yes, it's plenty good enough (and it's quiet).

 

[butlerpeter]

Excellent stuff.

 

Found myself looking at a Zalman MS800 case as well - ought to stop myself, the part list and cost is getting bigger!

[garycase]

Excellent stuff.

 

Found myself looking at a Zalman MS800 case as well - ought to stop myself, the part list and cost is getting bigger!

 

Upgrades have a way of doing that  :)

 

One of my HTPC's broke a couple months ago ... needed a replacement motherboard (~ $125).  Thought about it ... and decided I may as well go for a Haswell motherboard (about the same cost) -- and, of course, a new CPU and memory.  Then I figured since I was re-doing the "innards" I'd switch to a good modular PSU ... and, of course, if I was going to buy a Haswell I may as well get a Core-i7 4771 ... and naturally I'd pop in a pair of 8GB XMP memory modules ... etc., etc.  I DID use the same case (a very good $200+ Lian-Li) ... but ultimately I spent ~ $700 instead of the $125 I really needed to.  And I've also decided I'm going to upgrade the tuners (it has eight) to a Ceton 6-tuner cable card unit ($300) 

[butlerpeter]

While I'm making a (ever expanding) list,

 

I'm obviously going to need some SATA cables to go from the board to the drive cages/drives. I'll also need to get power to the drive cages/drives.

 

A power supply only comes with X amount of molex connectors and Y amount of SATA power connectors - are splitters suitable or considered a complete no no?

 

Any recommendations for cables, SATA or power?

[butlerpeter]

After much deliberation, I think the final part list for my build will be:

 

Supermicro X10SL7-F motherboard

Intel Xeon E3-1240v3 processor

Fractal Design Define XL R2 case

Seasonic SS-550RM PSU http://www.scan.co.uk/products/550w-seasonic-g-550-hybrid-modular-80-plus-gold-eps-12v-12cm-silnt-fan-atx-psu

NZXT 4 SATA to 4 SATA cables x 2 http://www.scan.co.uk/products/nzxt-90-premium-sleeved-cable-black-4-sata-3-to-4-sata-3

Silverstone 4 pin to 4 SATA power cable x 2 http://www.scan.co.uk/products/silverstone-pp07-4pin-to-4-sata-300mm-extension-power-cable-black

 

plus the Kingston KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G RAM that I already have.

 

I've gone for the 1240 Xeon instead of the 1230 because I've found somewhere that has the 1240 for slightly less than I was going to get the 1230 for.

 

I've abandoned the plan to use my existing case because getting the new one is not much more expensive than getting the drive cages to go in my old one, and I can fit all of my current drives in the internal bays, with the option of adding a drive cage later when needed.

 

Don't think I've missed anything.